Armed Forces face mass walk out over poor funding, report warns
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QUOTE "Many did not agree with the invasion of Iraq, and see massive mission creep in Afghanistan (John Read "no bullets will be fired"??). Their own communities are fractured, the money thrown at the NHS and schools is having little impact, and the MoD wants more money. Pull back from these foreign wars and stop trying to be a world power, they argue."
And they'd be absolutely right... the world's economies are stagnating, so we can expect to see even less tax revenue, leading to further cuts in military and public service spending. Unemployment in the UK is set to reach 2m by the end of the year and we're not over the worst of it by a long chalk. Our overseas commitments are therefore bound to be called into question.
And they'd be absolutely right... the world's economies are stagnating, so we can expect to see even less tax revenue, leading to further cuts in military and public service spending. Unemployment in the UK is set to reach 2m by the end of the year and we're not over the worst of it by a long chalk. Our overseas commitments are therefore bound to be called into question.
The story was covered in several newspapers yesterday. Here's the UKNDA email on the subject...
Dear UKNDA member,
Following the release of the UKNDA discussion paper, Overcoming the Defence Crisis, we thought you might be interested to see a small selection of media coverage so far.
Daily Telegraph (front page):
Armed Forces face mass walk out over poor funding, report warns - Telegraph
Daily Mail:
Government funding cuts since the Cold War now has Britain's ailing Armed Forces at 'breaking point' | Mail Online
BBC:
BBC NEWS | UK | Leavers 'could paralyse' forces
Portsmouth News:
Calls for boost in defence spending - Portsmouth Today
Sky News:
Britain's Armed Forces Need Multi-Billion Pound Boost In Spending Claims National Defence Associatio | UK News | Sky News
The Scotsman:
Forces in crisis, say veterans - Scotsman.com News
London Metro:
Calls for defence spending boost | Metro.co.uk=
Newcastle Journal:
Calls for defence spending boost - JournalLive
Press Association:
The Press Association: Calls for defence spending boost
Regards,
Andy Smith FRGS FCIJ
PRO - UKNDA
Tel 07737 271676
Email [email protected]
Dear UKNDA member,
Following the release of the UKNDA discussion paper, Overcoming the Defence Crisis, we thought you might be interested to see a small selection of media coverage so far.
Daily Telegraph (front page):
Armed Forces face mass walk out over poor funding, report warns - Telegraph
Daily Mail:
Government funding cuts since the Cold War now has Britain's ailing Armed Forces at 'breaking point' | Mail Online
BBC:
BBC NEWS | UK | Leavers 'could paralyse' forces
Portsmouth News:
Calls for boost in defence spending - Portsmouth Today
Sky News:
Britain's Armed Forces Need Multi-Billion Pound Boost In Spending Claims National Defence Associatio | UK News | Sky News
The Scotsman:
Forces in crisis, say veterans - Scotsman.com News
London Metro:
Calls for defence spending boost | Metro.co.uk=
Newcastle Journal:
Calls for defence spending boost - JournalLive
Press Association:
The Press Association: Calls for defence spending boost
Regards,
Andy Smith FRGS FCIJ
PRO - UKNDA
Tel 07737 271676
Email [email protected]
Thread Starter
I believe that since the war that the Labour government has actually been as pro, if not more pro, than Tory.
But hardly true of NuLabor under Trust-me-Tone or Grumpy Gordo?
But you're right on one point - that fool Duncan Sandys was Conservative...
No-one still knows for sure which of Wislon's closet commies was finally responsible for murdering TSR2.
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"Airmen waste money on foreign jollies!!" which we all know are actually legit training missions and the choice of accomodation is actually the cheapest on offer.
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My recollection from serving in the RAF in the 60s and 70s was that the pleasure of the work, the cameraderie, mess life, squadron life and sheer enjoyment of what we did and where we did it, well outweighed the crap and nonsense (what little there was). Now there is no way that the crap and nonsense could be outweighed by anything. Everybody seems to be rushing around with their trousers on fire, doing their best (as ALWAYS) when overtasked, underequipped, undermanned and unappreciated.
Last edited by A2QFI; 18th Sep 2008 at 15:46.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle, quite right, I got distracted and forgot to mention how things had changed with Nu-labour.
I also omitted the AFVG, that other jet, the Supersonic Javelin, and of course Nimrod and Nimwacs. The balance sheet of who started what, who ordered what and who cancelled and cut would be interesting. I may suggest it to Peter Hennessy.
Dennis Healey fostered the idea that he was the Forces friend and certainly stayed the course. It was Maggie who was a real friend giving the Forces a massive payrise AND the tools to do the job that won the Cold War.
I also omitted the AFVG, that other jet, the Supersonic Javelin, and of course Nimrod and Nimwacs. The balance sheet of who started what, who ordered what and who cancelled and cut would be interesting. I may suggest it to Peter Hennessy.
Dennis Healey fostered the idea that he was the Forces friend and certainly stayed the course. It was Maggie who was a real friend giving the Forces a massive payrise AND the tools to do the job that won the Cold War.
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A2QFI
You have just hit the nail on the head. We loved the life in RAFG; you worked your nuts off, but you played hard and enjoyed the life that went with it to the full. There was always a work life balance (and yes we spent up to 6 months plus away on detachment each year) and this created high morale and a sense of belonging. I (and my family) immediately noticed the difference when RAF Germany closed, and in my opinion that’s when the real rot started.
Suddenly it was all about achieving more for less, efficiency drives, cutbacks that quite frankly really hurt and this perceived attitude from the top to stamp out any form of morale.
For certain Sqns and trades within the RAF the tempo of operations associated with lack of kit, crap kit and lack of care is really starting to make good people leave in droves.
Just about every SNCO that I served with in Germany on Tonka Sqns has now left. Some of these people (including myself) were of the type where if you cut them in half they had a blue roundel in the middle. Only 10 years ago that number of people leaving would have been un-heard of.
Just my two-pence worth.
You have just hit the nail on the head. We loved the life in RAFG; you worked your nuts off, but you played hard and enjoyed the life that went with it to the full. There was always a work life balance (and yes we spent up to 6 months plus away on detachment each year) and this created high morale and a sense of belonging. I (and my family) immediately noticed the difference when RAF Germany closed, and in my opinion that’s when the real rot started.
Suddenly it was all about achieving more for less, efficiency drives, cutbacks that quite frankly really hurt and this perceived attitude from the top to stamp out any form of morale.
For certain Sqns and trades within the RAF the tempo of operations associated with lack of kit, crap kit and lack of care is really starting to make good people leave in droves.
Just about every SNCO that I served with in Germany on Tonka Sqns has now left. Some of these people (including myself) were of the type where if you cut them in half they had a blue roundel in the middle. Only 10 years ago that number of people leaving would have been un-heard of.
Just my two-pence worth.
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There are plenty of civilians who are either ex-mil or only 1 step removed, i.e. have a family member or close friend that is in. Of course the public are concerned about the state of the forces and the conditions for those in.
Even today, the total strength of the armed forces is quite substantial. I just have a few minutes so I'm not going to dig out exact figures, a quick web search suggests about 460,000. I include reservists, (as well as VRs. I kn ow a lot of folks here look down on them, but its still a connection). A few family members and a couple of civvy mates each still gives a a pool of folks who know a serviceman/woman closely at several million.
Go back to the early 80's and you find its closer to 600,000. Most of whom are probably still alive, and a good chunk of whom will now be ex service.
Then you've got all the civilianised jobs, plus the MOD and defence related industries.
One way or another, there are still a lot of people with direct or indirect forces connection. Hence I can not support the view point expressed earlier that the public are 'not one bit concerned'.
To be frank, that viewpoint sounds more than a little self pitying.
Unfortunately, I feel the houses of parliament contain a disproportionate number of those that actually don't care (including my own current MP and the previous one who both have the analytical abilities of a brain damaged gerbil).
Many did not agree with the invasion of Iraq, and see massive mission creep in Afghanistan (John Read "no bullets will be fired"??). Their own communities are fractured (knife/gun crime, rise of BNP etc), the money thrown at the NHS and schools is having little impact, and the MoD wants more money - they don't get it. Pull back from these foreign wars and stop trying to be a world power, they argue.
Best wishes from a supportive and grateful civilian.
pb
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Red On, Green On
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Capt Pit Bull - the numbers of servicemen only look good when you include the regular reserve, many of whom have been out for five years or more. Take them out and the numbers have halved in 25 years.
Look at the huge closures of military bases - the RAF has withdrawn to about a quarter of the bases it had 25 years ago, most of the county army presences have been closed and the RN is in just Portsmouth and Plymouth, as well as Culdrose and Yeovilton. The military are no longer part of daily life for many people in the way it was a generation ago.
Look at the huge closures of military bases - the RAF has withdrawn to about a quarter of the bases it had 25 years ago, most of the county army presences have been closed and the RN is in just Portsmouth and Plymouth, as well as Culdrose and Yeovilton. The military are no longer part of daily life for many people in the way it was a generation ago.
Thread Starter
....the RAF has withdrawn to about a quarter of the bases it had 25 years ago...
Abingdon
Acklington
Andover
Aston Down
Ballykelly
Bassingbourn
Bentwaters
Bicester
Biggin Hill
Binbrook
Bovingdon
Brawdy
Chivenor
Church Fenton
Coltishall
Cranwell North
Driffield
Elvington
Finningley
Fulbeck
Gaydon
Gravely
Greenham Common
Hamble
Honington
Hullavington
Kemble
Leconfield
Lindholme
Little Rissington
Machiranish
Manby
Newton
North Luffenham
North Weald
Oakington
Ouston
Pershore
Scampton
Spitalgate
St Davids
St Mawgan
Stradishall
Strubby
Swinderby
Syerston
Tangmere
Ternhill
Thorney Island
Waterbeach
Wattisham
Watton
West Malling
West Raynham
White Waltham
Last edited by BEagle; 19th Sep 2008 at 10:48. Reason: As my old mate Roly pointed out - I forgot Machrihanish!
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A2qfi/srennaps
"A2QFI
You have just hit the nail on the head. We loved the life in RAFG; you worked your nuts off, but you played hard and enjoyed the life that went with it to the full. There was always a work life balance (and yes we spent up to 6 months plus away on detachment each year) and this created high morale and a sense of belonging. I (and my family) immediately noticed the difference when RAF Germany closed, and in my opinion that’s when the real rot started.
Suddenly it was all about achieving more for less, efficiency drives, cutbacks that quite frankly really hurt and this perceived attitude from the top to stamp out any form of morale.
For certain Sqns and trades within the RAF the tempo of operations associated with lack of kit, crap kit and lack of care is really starting to make good people leave in droves.
Just about every SNCO that I served with in Germany on Tonka Sqns has now left. Some of these people (including myself) were of the type where if you cut them in half they had a blue roundel in the middle. Only 10 years ago that number of people leaving would have been un-heard of."
Guys, you have summed up how so many people have felt for so long.....
You have just hit the nail on the head. We loved the life in RAFG; you worked your nuts off, but you played hard and enjoyed the life that went with it to the full. There was always a work life balance (and yes we spent up to 6 months plus away on detachment each year) and this created high morale and a sense of belonging. I (and my family) immediately noticed the difference when RAF Germany closed, and in my opinion that’s when the real rot started.
Suddenly it was all about achieving more for less, efficiency drives, cutbacks that quite frankly really hurt and this perceived attitude from the top to stamp out any form of morale.
For certain Sqns and trades within the RAF the tempo of operations associated with lack of kit, crap kit and lack of care is really starting to make good people leave in droves.
Just about every SNCO that I served with in Germany on Tonka Sqns has now left. Some of these people (including myself) were of the type where if you cut them in half they had a blue roundel in the middle. Only 10 years ago that number of people leaving would have been un-heard of."
Guys, you have summed up how so many people have felt for so long.....
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I think Chivenor is used by the Royal Marines. Many former RAF bases have been taken on by other branches of the military; Wattisham, Bassingbourn and Chivenor come to mnd and I am sure there are others. Acklington and one near Scampton are prisons.
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Chivenor
Chivenor is indeed a Royal Marines unit, the Hawks moved out in the 90's. There is also a large Army contingent there (which makes for a lot of fun on a Friday night...). 22 Sqn 'A' Flight is still there although the engineering side of things was civilianized a couple of years ago. 22 Sqn HQ moved from Chivenor to Valley recently.
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RAF Bases
BEagle,
I was at the Annual Reception at RAF Scampton (where the Red Arrows and an operational CRC are based) yesterday. RAF Honington is home to the RAF Regiment.
SO
I was at the Annual Reception at RAF Scampton (where the Red Arrows and an operational CRC are based) yesterday. RAF Honington is home to the RAF Regiment.
SO
SO
I think BEags was referring to flying stations. Church Fenton is also in his list which still has flying, but no longer has a station to support it. Honington has no flying and Scampton..... well who really knows!!
Missing from his list are some of the non-flying stations that have been closed as well ie RAF Hereford, RAF Sealand, RAF Innsworth etc etc
BEags you missed off Macrihanish, who can forget Macrihanish?
I think BEags was referring to flying stations. Church Fenton is also in his list which still has flying, but no longer has a station to support it. Honington has no flying and Scampton..... well who really knows!!
Missing from his list are some of the non-flying stations that have been closed as well ie RAF Hereford, RAF Sealand, RAF Innsworth etc etc
BEags you missed off Macrihanish, who can forget Macrihanish?