GURKHA COURAGE and LOYALTY ABUSED YET AGAIN!
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This is great news, fantastic, I'm so happy!!! 
I Jumped up into the air & shouted; 'YEEES' when I heard the news...I did....Really!!! 
I even had a drink of Bailey's Creamed Whiskey on them!
This should have been done a bloody long time ago! Shame it took so long.
Gurkha's Forever!!!
I Jumped up into the air & shouted; 'YEEES' when I heard the news...I did....Really!!! I even had a drink of Bailey's Creamed Whiskey on them!This should have been done a bloody long time ago! Shame it took so long.
Gurkha's Forever!!!
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I have often wondered why, when there is a shortage of recruits and manpower for the Army, and always more candidates than places for the Gurkha regiments, we don't just recruit more of them to fill the gaps, and also why as part of the 'contract' we don't give them full British citizenship at the end of the engagement provided they have an exemplary record. That arrangement works well for the Foriegn Legion in France.
Or am I missing something here ??
Arc
Or am I missing something here ??
Arc
Once again the judiciary points us to what is right, away from attitudes that are wrong, like:
Well done Gurkhas, well done Howe & Co, well done Joanna Lumley! 
Now Let Right Be Done!
"Having a VC is not necessarily a strong tie bringing the entry application within the policy."
Now Let Right Be Done!
Time to start on the political scum suckers again, ( they work for us not the other way around ) make them aware of the feeling within the service and ex-service community about how these gentlemen are being treated. I use the term gentlemen in both sense's but I would never anger a Gurhka. I like certain parts of my anatomy where they are, thank you very much.
Gurkha's, I salute you one and all.
Air Pig.
Gurkha's, I salute you one and all.
Air Pig.
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A word of caution...
Although I acclaim the decision by Mr. Justice Blake, I fear this will not be the end of the matter; Ms. Lumley is right to say that things are not yet decided. The recent decision affects only the six Ghurkas who formed part of this case; there is also a promise by the Home Office to review the other 2000 or so applications for residence which have been refused so far. Since the wording of the judgement includes reference to inadequate attention being paid to the bravery of these six men, their length of service and wounds sustained in action, it is open to the Home Office to maintain their refusal decision in cases where these circumstances do not apply. Now to the nub of the matter; I understand that there are some 40,000 other Ghurkas and family members who have not even begun the expensive application process, and would also qualify for residence if the concession to those serving after 1997 was extended to all ex-serving Ghurkas.
I think the politicians are of the opinion that there are just too many of them, and are seeking to treat them in the same way as those of our troops held prisoner by the Japanese were treated, when it came to considerations of compensation; wait long enough and most of them will no longer be in a position to claim anything. The Bomber Command campaign medal falls into the same category.
There is a Government Petition on the subject of Ghurka residence: Petition to: give all Ex Gurkha soldiers and their families who have served our country British citizenship on leaving the service. | Number10.gov.uk should link you to it.
It was tried before, in 1997. This time, with the recent court case, there should be a better chance; over 36,000 signatures at present and a deadline of 26th November. We must bring as much pressure to bear as possible.
I think the politicians are of the opinion that there are just too many of them, and are seeking to treat them in the same way as those of our troops held prisoner by the Japanese were treated, when it came to considerations of compensation; wait long enough and most of them will no longer be in a position to claim anything. The Bomber Command campaign medal falls into the same category.
There is a Government Petition on the subject of Ghurka residence: Petition to: give all Ex Gurkha soldiers and their families who have served our country British citizenship on leaving the service. | Number10.gov.uk should link you to it.
It was tried before, in 1997. This time, with the recent court case, there should be a better chance; over 36,000 signatures at present and a deadline of 26th November. We must bring as much pressure to bear as possible.
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There is another petition here, with 96,000+ signatures.
Gurkha Justice Campaign
Give the Gurkhas your support.
Gurkha Justice Campaign
Give the Gurkhas your support.
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The news today is not so good! Looks like the slippery, obnoxious cretins who pose as our Government have, yet again, spat in the face of overwhelming public opinion.
Campaigners have reacted with anger to new rules on the eligibility of Gurkha veterans to live in the UK. The Home Office said that new rules would allow about 4,300 more to settle, but the Gurkha Justice Campaign said it would be just 100.
Actress Joanna Lumley, a campaigner for the Gurkhas, said the announcement made her "ashamed of our administration".
Immigration Minister Phil Woolas denied he had betrayed the Gurkhas, adding: "This improves the situation."
He said: "It has never been the case that all Gurkhas pre-1997 were to be allowed to stay in the country. With their dependents you could be looking at 100,000 people.
"It's simply not true that we have betrayed the Gurkhas. When people read the guidelines they will see the sense of them."
'Truly appalling'
In September 2008, the High Court ruled that immigration rules denying Gurkhas who retired before 1997 - about 36,000 - an automatic right to stay in the UK were unlawful.
Peter Carroll, from the Gurkha Justice Campaign, said the fight to allow them to stay in this country would continue with renewed vigour.
If they want Gurkha soldiers, they should treat them equally 
Dhan Gurung
Ex-Gurkha
He added: "The one group of people that has never let this country down has been let down today in a manner which is truly appalling."
David Enwright, a solicitor representing the Gurkhas, said: "This government, Mr Woolas, should hang their head in shame so low that their forehead should touch their boots.
"This is a disgrace and a betrayal of our armed forces and our veterans."
Dhan Gurung, the first ex-Gurkha to be elected as a councillor in the UK, said the announcement was "insulting to loyal Gurkhas".
He added: "If they want Gurkha soldiers, they should treat them equally."
Gurkhas have been part of the Army for almost 200 years and are hand-picked from a fiercely-contested recruitment contest in Nepal to win the right to join.
They have seen combat all over the world, with 200,000 having fought in the two world wars and 45,000 believed to have lost their lives fighting for Britain.
SETTLEMENT CRITERIA
Three years continuous residence in the UK during or after service
Close family in the UK
A bravery award of level one to three
Service of 20 years or more in the Gurkha brigade
Chronic or long-term medical condition caused or aggravated by service
Gurkhas who retired before 1997 must meet at least one of these conditions
The regiment moved its main base from Hong Kong to the UK in 1997 and the government had argued that Gurkhas discharged before that date were unlikely to have strong residential ties with the UK.
That meant those who wanted to settle in the UK had to apply for British residency and could be refused and deported.
Mr Woolas outlined the eligibility criteria in a written ministerial statement. Gurkhas and their families will be allowed to stay in the UK if they meet at least one of five requirements.
These are three years of continuous residence in the UK, close family in the country, 20 or more years of service, a level one to three bravery award, and a serious medical condition caused or aggravated by service.
Alternatively, veterans can gain residency if they meet at least two of an additional set of three criteria.
These are having been awarded an MoD disability pension but no longer having a chronic condition, having been mentioned in dispatches, and 10 years' service or a campaign medal.
But Ms Lumley, whose father served with the Gurkhas, said most Gurkhas would not have been allowed to stay in the UK for three years or have gained a bravery award.
ALTERNATIVE CRITERIA
Awarded a UK MoD disability pension but no longer have a chronic medical condition
Mentioned in dispatches
Service of 10 years, or a campaign medal for active service
Gurkhas who retired before 1997 must meet at least two of these conditions
She added that only officers would have achieved 20 years of service, and that it would be near-impossible for troops who served in the 1950s and 1960s to prove that their medical conditions were caused by their time in the forces.
"They've given five bullet points that virtually cannot be met by the ordinary Gurkha soldier," she said.
"It is so obvious that the treatment of the Gurkhas has been a huge injustice," she said.
"To treat them like this is despicable."
'Moral debt'
The Home Office said that as a result of the decision, a total of 4,300 Ghurkas who served prior to 1997 would be eligible for residency.
A spokesman added there were currently 1,300 applications outstanding, 300 of which would now be granted.
In September, Mr Justice Blake ruled that instructions given by the Home Office to immigration officials were unlawful and needed urgent revision.
He said the Gurkhas' long service, conspicuous acts of bravery and loyalty to the Crown all pointed to a "moral debt of honour" and gratitude felt by British people.
The government promised to revise its guidance, but in March 2009, the Gurkhas returned to the High Court to try and enforce the ruling.
Campaigners have reacted with anger to new rules on the eligibility of Gurkha veterans to live in the UK. The Home Office said that new rules would allow about 4,300 more to settle, but the Gurkha Justice Campaign said it would be just 100.
Actress Joanna Lumley, a campaigner for the Gurkhas, said the announcement made her "ashamed of our administration".
Immigration Minister Phil Woolas denied he had betrayed the Gurkhas, adding: "This improves the situation."
He said: "It has never been the case that all Gurkhas pre-1997 were to be allowed to stay in the country. With their dependents you could be looking at 100,000 people.
"It's simply not true that we have betrayed the Gurkhas. When people read the guidelines they will see the sense of them."
'Truly appalling'
In September 2008, the High Court ruled that immigration rules denying Gurkhas who retired before 1997 - about 36,000 - an automatic right to stay in the UK were unlawful.
Peter Carroll, from the Gurkha Justice Campaign, said the fight to allow them to stay in this country would continue with renewed vigour.
If they want Gurkha soldiers, they should treat them equally Dhan Gurung
Ex-Gurkha
He added: "The one group of people that has never let this country down has been let down today in a manner which is truly appalling."
David Enwright, a solicitor representing the Gurkhas, said: "This government, Mr Woolas, should hang their head in shame so low that their forehead should touch their boots.
"This is a disgrace and a betrayal of our armed forces and our veterans."
Dhan Gurung, the first ex-Gurkha to be elected as a councillor in the UK, said the announcement was "insulting to loyal Gurkhas".
He added: "If they want Gurkha soldiers, they should treat them equally."
Gurkhas have been part of the Army for almost 200 years and are hand-picked from a fiercely-contested recruitment contest in Nepal to win the right to join.
They have seen combat all over the world, with 200,000 having fought in the two world wars and 45,000 believed to have lost their lives fighting for Britain.
SETTLEMENT CRITERIA Three years continuous residence in the UK during or after service
Close family in the UK
A bravery award of level one to three
Service of 20 years or more in the Gurkha brigade
Chronic or long-term medical condition caused or aggravated by service
Gurkhas who retired before 1997 must meet at least one of these conditions
The regiment moved its main base from Hong Kong to the UK in 1997 and the government had argued that Gurkhas discharged before that date were unlikely to have strong residential ties with the UK.
That meant those who wanted to settle in the UK had to apply for British residency and could be refused and deported.
Mr Woolas outlined the eligibility criteria in a written ministerial statement. Gurkhas and their families will be allowed to stay in the UK if they meet at least one of five requirements.
These are three years of continuous residence in the UK, close family in the country, 20 or more years of service, a level one to three bravery award, and a serious medical condition caused or aggravated by service.
Alternatively, veterans can gain residency if they meet at least two of an additional set of three criteria.
These are having been awarded an MoD disability pension but no longer having a chronic condition, having been mentioned in dispatches, and 10 years' service or a campaign medal.
But Ms Lumley, whose father served with the Gurkhas, said most Gurkhas would not have been allowed to stay in the UK for three years or have gained a bravery award.
ALTERNATIVE CRITERIA Awarded a UK MoD disability pension but no longer have a chronic medical condition
Mentioned in dispatches
Service of 10 years, or a campaign medal for active service
Gurkhas who retired before 1997 must meet at least two of these conditions
She added that only officers would have achieved 20 years of service, and that it would be near-impossible for troops who served in the 1950s and 1960s to prove that their medical conditions were caused by their time in the forces.
"They've given five bullet points that virtually cannot be met by the ordinary Gurkha soldier," she said.
"It is so obvious that the treatment of the Gurkhas has been a huge injustice," she said.
"To treat them like this is despicable."
'Moral debt'
The Home Office said that as a result of the decision, a total of 4,300 Ghurkas who served prior to 1997 would be eligible for residency.
A spokesman added there were currently 1,300 applications outstanding, 300 of which would now be granted.
In September, Mr Justice Blake ruled that instructions given by the Home Office to immigration officials were unlawful and needed urgent revision.
He said the Gurkhas' long service, conspicuous acts of bravery and loyalty to the Crown all pointed to a "moral debt of honour" and gratitude felt by British people.
The government promised to revise its guidance, but in March 2009, the Gurkhas returned to the High Court to try and enforce the ruling.
Last edited by Romeo Oscar Golf; 24th Apr 2009 at 10:53. Reason: add bbc comment
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Posted 30th Septmeber 2008 -
Why should this then come as such a surprise from our government, they have no morals and are not fit to even lick a Gurkah’s boots. These fine upstanding, incredibly polite men who have served their adopted country so finely must wonder why they are been treated so unfairly by people we have elected. Today, the day after St Georges day, I’m ashamed to be English.
Thank god common sense has prevailed. Only hope this no hope government doesn`t find a way out of the ruling.
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Why did the government (Jacqui Smith) give the job of sorting this to a minion. It was I thought at least a ministerial decision. To downgrade it as they have done is to denigrate the Gurkha's. A singularly disgraceful act.
Its time for Joanna to get some more support(PPRuNe can help) to get these wonderful people their right of residency instead of giving it to those who have no right to be here.
Its time for Joanna to get some more support(PPRuNe can help) to get these wonderful people their right of residency instead of giving it to those who have no right to be here.
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Interesting everyone keeps banging on about Bravery decorations I keep seeing on BBC site and others that the Medals needed are Campaign medals like Italy/Burma Star, GSM, Kosovo,Bosnia,Falklands, Gulf,Afghanistan type medals!
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A National Disgrace
I wonder if HMG had the gumption to pass the new rules by Mr Justice Blake for his views prior to todays announcement?
Perhaps Her Majesties Loyal Opposition would like to force a debate and vote on the new "rules".
Perhaps Her Majesties Loyal Opposition would like to force a debate and vote on the new "rules".
Bravo for stickying this thread PPRuNe Pop, now let's stick it to this government that brings dishonour to our nation. A renewal of the PPRuNe Arrse/Axis is surely the way to go after the success of the Mr Pun VC and Ashted Nimbys Campaigns. Isn't Joanna magnificent when she's angry? Her directness is what the Gurkha cause needs, these morons don't understand politeness.
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Well, well, well, there's no surprise is there at this shower of sh1t government - I hope they're not planning on being re-elected.
Perhaps the gurkhas need to get hooks for hands, become 'students', start preaching mayhem and hate for this country . . .
They'd be welcomed in, given money, houses, food and be able to stay as long as they like.
But no . . . they are gentlemen, considering what kind of warriors they are and have served this country and its interests professionally and quietly without causing any fuss.
Perhaps it's time to show this government up for what they are!
Go, Ms Lumley - you've got my vote !!!
Perhaps the gurkhas need to get hooks for hands, become 'students', start preaching mayhem and hate for this country . . .
They'd be welcomed in, given money, houses, food and be able to stay as long as they like.
But no . . . they are gentlemen, considering what kind of warriors they are and have served this country and its interests professionally and quietly without causing any fuss.
Perhaps it's time to show this government up for what they are!
Go, Ms Lumley - you've got my vote !!!
Last edited by Dengue_Dude; 24th Apr 2009 at 13:58. Reason: Grama - now I've given up
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I disagree that this is a "Huge Injustice". People are viewing this case as one of mistreatment of folk in an unpredictable predicament. Consider that Gurkha's see it is a massive honour to be able to serve in the British Army, and are no doubt at least partly motivated by the massive remuneration package (comparative to that at home), and substantially better living conditions; hence the perilous selection and training they endure. They did, after all, sign up knowing the deal and have not been in any way deceived to my knowledge. (I'll gladly stand corrected if this is not the case.)
The new criteria, at least, will make it possible for a few more ex-servicemen to stay in the UK, and I am absolutely positive the guys that qualify will be eternally grateful, and the one’s that don’t, still grateful for their opportunity to serve all the same. The new criteria are an improvement after all, surely it would be an embarrassment if it deteriorated the situation, but it did not.
Granted our immigration controls and tolerance to supporting foreigners, (and indeed many worthless Brits who don't care a less about our country,) and their dependents is a joke, however this does not serve as a suitable comparison due to its obvious inadequacy.
The new criteria, at least, will make it possible for a few more ex-servicemen to stay in the UK, and I am absolutely positive the guys that qualify will be eternally grateful, and the one’s that don’t, still grateful for their opportunity to serve all the same. The new criteria are an improvement after all, surely it would be an embarrassment if it deteriorated the situation, but it did not.
Granted our immigration controls and tolerance to supporting foreigners, (and indeed many worthless Brits who don't care a less about our country,) and their dependents is a joke, however this does not serve as a suitable comparison due to its obvious inadequacy.
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I don't know about Ms Lumley, and can only think in this case ' any publicity is good '.
The Ghurka's, like the Royal Marine who threw himself on a grenade for the sake of his mates, and come to that all service people ought to be given not only a good welcome but decent ( UK ) housing - don't tell me we can't afford it, even now the bankers have academically screwed us with paper figures...there are a lot of builders who'd be glad of the work, and we don't even need to take up 'green' space if it was done intelligently without back-handers to politicians.
Unfortunately the poor treatment goes way back before this Govt', though one can't help wonder at some of the people we ' let in '.
As I've said before that's a separate issue, but I'm damn sure we can make room for loyal warriors, especially as they might soon be the only applicants we have !
The Ghurka's, like the Royal Marine who threw himself on a grenade for the sake of his mates, and come to that all service people ought to be given not only a good welcome but decent ( UK ) housing - don't tell me we can't afford it, even now the bankers have academically screwed us with paper figures...there are a lot of builders who'd be glad of the work, and we don't even need to take up 'green' space if it was done intelligently without back-handers to politicians.
Unfortunately the poor treatment goes way back before this Govt', though one can't help wonder at some of the people we ' let in '.
As I've said before that's a separate issue, but I'm damn sure we can make room for loyal warriors, especially as they might soon be the only applicants we have !
Last edited by Double Zero; 24th Apr 2009 at 19:01.
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This subject should not arouse angst or any other kind of vitriol - except that to be aimed at the government who have not behaved very well in this case.
I well recall the Home Office requesting 3 months to assess what they would do after the court made its statement that the Gurkhas case should be reviewed. That was clearly a stalling manouvre and a disgraceful one at that.
Now, I suggest you find the email address to give Mr Woolas as bad a time as we did to Liam Byrne his predecessor. We all should.
No more diversions please. Each is entitled to his/her own opinion but must expect whatever it is to be challenged - as a right.
I well recall the Home Office requesting 3 months to assess what they would do after the court made its statement that the Gurkhas case should be reviewed. That was clearly a stalling manouvre and a disgraceful one at that.
Now, I suggest you find the email address to give Mr Woolas as bad a time as we did to Liam Byrne his predecessor. We all should.
No more diversions please. Each is entitled to his/her own opinion but must expect whatever it is to be challenged - as a right.
Chaps, chaps
If you wish to get into a slanging match please do so by PM. This topic is far to important to be taken off at an irrelevant tangent.
Yet again the creatures of Noo LIARbour have proven themselves to be beyond contempt. An utterly disgraceful decision! Woolas and Smith, words fail me, and after a good happy hour that is unusual!!
If you wish to get into a slanging match please do so by PM. This topic is far to important to be taken off at an irrelevant tangent.
Yet again the creatures of Noo LIARbour have proven themselves to be beyond contempt. An utterly disgraceful decision! Woolas and Smith, words fail me, and after a good happy hour that is unusual!!
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I am afraid I am going to do some modding! I agree with RP so I will now remove the posts that caused a problem.
No more please. Stick to the 'job' in hand and as RP says, let us go after Woolas and Smith.
No more please. Stick to the 'job' in hand and as RP says, let us go after Woolas and Smith.
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Whilst "SPYMOVS" is factually correct, IE- All Nepalese accepted for the british Forces, will be assured an income and pension,not to mention social status, ....magnitudes above the average Nepalese income,...
To them, It's the promised land and riches that most can only dream about.
Yes, they knew the rules, joined and served on that basis.....BUT
These men serve honourably and loyally......in return, an honourable government would grant such loyal servants the right of residency, NOT cast them aside like a worn-out dishcloth.
That this morally bankrupt shower of inept ,unscrupulous ,self-serving shysters should choose to sidestep that obligation, says everything about them.
Anyone voting Labour again, wants to hang their head in shame.
W**ker Woolas supposedly represents this area, on some part of the political gravy-train.....time to plant a protest- poster in the front garden, methinks.
To them, It's the promised land and riches that most can only dream about.
Yes, they knew the rules, joined and served on that basis.....BUT
These men serve honourably and loyally......in return, an honourable government would grant such loyal servants the right of residency, NOT cast them aside like a worn-out dishcloth.
That this morally bankrupt shower of inept ,unscrupulous ,self-serving shysters should choose to sidestep that obligation, says everything about them.
Anyone voting Labour again, wants to hang their head in shame.
W**ker Woolas supposedly represents this area, on some part of the political gravy-train.....time to plant a protest- poster in the front garden, methinks.