A Country Fit for Heroes

[cliffnemo]

I emailed Hywell Williams on this subject and below is the reply I suggest you all do the same.
CLIFFNEMO
----------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY
Many thanks for bringing this matter to our attention. Plaid Cymru MP for Caernarfon Hywel Williams has already acted on the matter;



Hywel Williams MP said he intended to take the matter further when he had a reply to his letter to the hotel.

He said: "I was astonished when I heard the story from Mrs Stringer. I can't see why any hotel would want to refuse accommodation to a serving member of the armed forces anyway.
"Tomos was not in his uniform, he was a traveller like anyone else."

I refer you to a BBC story on the matter (BBC NEWS | Wales | Soldier is refused room at hotel )and, If you require any further information to contact Hywel Williams’ office in Caernarfon.
[email protected] (Hywel’s e-mail address)
Hywel Williams
8 Stryd y Castell,
Caernarfon,
Gwynedd,
LL55 1SE
Many thanks once again for bringing the matter to our attention
Diolch
Dyfan Powel
Swyddog Cydlynu Polisi / Policy Coordinator
Plaid Cymru
ebost/email [email protected]

Plaid Cymru, Ty Gwynfor, Marine Chambers, Anson Court, Atlantic Wharf, Caerdydd, CF10 4AL.
Ffon: 02920 475927
Bydd yno! Cynhadledd Flynyddol 2008: 11.09.08-13.09.08 - Canolfan y Celfyddydau, Abersytwyth
Be there! Annual Conference 2008: 11.09.08-13.09.08 - Arts Centre, Aberystwyth
Subject: INSULSULT TO CORPORAL STRINGER. [Scanned][Spam score%]
CLIFFNEMO SAID ----I HOPE YOU ARE TAKING UP THIS SOLDIER'S CASE IN THE HOUSE.------

[Roland Pulfrew]

Just been on the Radio 2 news during the Chris Evans show. Apparently the police have been called due to the hotel receiving a number of "threatening and abusive e-mails and phone calls". Guess the military will end up being the bad guys in this story soon!!! Careful chaps.

They have apologised and blamed a receptionist for saying that it was policy. Now why would a receptionist just assume that it was policy not to accept servicemen if it wasn't actually policy?

[NoFaultFound]

Sadly this kind of thing is not uncommon... whilst picking troops up at a large international airport in central England we were told that as crew we could not go into the terminal in uniform and that our pax had been told to report in civvies as the airport did not allow military uniform so as not to offend!!!!

NFF

[DG101]

Ladies and Gentlemen

I would urge you, before you jump to possibly inaccurate conclusions, to be aware that we have heard only hearsay evidence relayed by Cpl Stringer's mother, certainly nothing that would be accepted in court. If I were sitting in judgement, I would like answers to a few questions. To open the debate:

- Why did Cpl. Stringer decide his best/only recourse was to sleep in his small car?
- What efforts did Cpl. Stringer make to find alternative accommodation in the area?
- Why wait until Cpl. Stringer returned to duty before going to the press?

There may be more to this story than has been revealed.

[endplay]

Is it possible that this story is more to do with the acceptance or othewise of military ID cards being used as a means of identification. (It's difficult to imagine why this chap would have presented his card for any other reason). If for example he was paying by cash or a credit card that the company doesn't accept?

If this is the case it's entirely plausible and even, dare I say it, not unreasonable. I've been out for a year (almost) and IIRC there was talk of the introduction of joint ID card. I don't know if this has happened but if it has I wouldn't recognise it. I'd struggle with a RN or Army one for that matter.

Out here it's a passport or photo driving licence only.

Just a thought.

[Double Zero]

Isn't it a nice thought that any innocent - if daft - people staying at this place will probably be given the red carpet loss-making treatment, ( well, as far as this bunch can manage ) 'just in case' a la Basil Fawlty & the Hotel Inspector ?!

Where exactly does this hotel - and chain - feature on the owners' / potential investor's Monopoly boards right now I wonder - and as for blaming the receptionist...

[Brian Abraham]

God and the Soldier,
We alike adore

In times of danger,
Not before.

The danger past
And all conflict righted,

God is forgotten,
The Soldier slighted.

[LBGR]

Originally Posted by DG101

I would like answers to a few questions. To open the debate:

- Why did Cpl. Stringer decide his best/only recourse was to sleep in his small car?
- What efforts did Cpl. Stringer make to find alternative accommodation in the area?
- Why wait until Cpl. Stringer returned to duty before going to the press?

I'm sorry but what a bucket of b*llocks. It doesn't matter whether he slept in the street outside or the 5* hotel down the road, or when he went back to duty in relation to contacting the press.

The point is, and remains he was turned away. What were the reasons behind this and as others have pointed out, if this was someone from a {insert minority here} background, it would not be allowed.

It sounds to me like you're a policy maker. What was his recourse, indeed? I think you've bl00dy well missed the point by a long shot.

F*cking recourse?

[Al R]

Brian,

That poem, very true.

But as an observation, and I don't say this to be contentious or anything like that, we need to keep this in perspective. This time yesterday, I posted the name of the MD because his company decided on this course of action, and he needs to be accountable. I didn't publish his address, because that would possibly have been inciting a breech of the peace and endangering or distressing people who have nothing to do with this, or what happened (.. but as an aside, its still law for all company directors to have a brass plate attached to their house, stating their names and company details anyway!). If the troops on ARRSE did that, then they do themselves no favours, and again, I don't ay this to be inflammatory, but to remind them that they run the risk of winning the firefight, but losing the campaign.

Yes, we want the military to be shown more respect, of course we do, but we need to be just a little smarter about this. Nothing will turn the public off more, than a never ending succession of old soldietrs banging their gums about the latest outrage.. HOWEVER JUSTIFIED THE OUTRAGE IS. The public just doesn't have the capacity any longer, to sustain productive interest in any one event, consider the death of Princess Diana. HUGE public empathy at the time, but very quickly - dissinterest and now derision. NOTHING goes out of fashion quicker than fashion, and supporting the troops is very fashionable. But it runs the risk of being a victim of its own success. This incident, if taken in context, wasn't the end of the world. A veteran wasn't deprived of NHS treatment or lost his job and a vet's child wasn't able to get NHS treatment. Whether we like it or not (and as ever in these things, you only ever get a clear perspective with the benefit of time and distance) those are the sorts of campaigns that are judged and viewed in the medium to long term. Campaigns such as this will need to keep their powder dry for the REALLY important events. This, with respect, was a little like selecting 'auto' on a soft skinned vehicle travelling at speed 500 m away. This should have got a response suitable and not the full monty, which, the media being the media, is always going to happen when you get OUTRAGED!!! talk jocks and the likes of Jeremy Vine etc.

I suggested approaching the banks, applying pressure which is going to be felt long term. People such as those who caused and who will do it again are the types of people who will soon forget about this, won't give a damn and will want to chance their luck anyway, because frankly, they're at the lower end of the food and money chain. They don't care about glorious concepts like protecting those who protect us - they only care about the balance sheet. Pressure has to be long and slow, and lets not forget. ALL discrimination is a shocker, whether its this lad being forced to sleep in his car is nothing compared to what an immigrant with family in tow must have felt like when they saw signs in hostels and B&Bs saying 'No blacks'. Look how long that campaign was fought for - by confronting bigots and idiots head on over individual matters, you only allow people a conduit, and those people who may support you will always have done so anyway. We need to remember too, that the overwelming majority of the country is behind 'us' (I am no longer fortunate enough to be able to describe myself as serving, but I reserve the right to chip in, from afar!).

I was just a Regt NCO and I was proud to get stuck into misscarriages of justice like Grays Lane, but ALL landlords and hoteliers have an obligation as part of their licence to host people, its THAT which should be the issue here as much as this JNCOs sad experience. I'm not trying to belittle this incident, but just to put it in context in order to be able to achieve a proper solution, not short term gratification. And finally, lets not forget the really important thing here, and I say this as a principle and nothing else. We all have a right to mentally like or dislike people and what they do (politicians, estate agents etc). As servicemen, no one forced us into the recruiting office. I did what I did because I wanted to do it so much my balls ached - I didn't then give too much of a toss about being screamed at by peace slags (a term of affection) at Greenham Common, stoned or sniped at by Irish people, shot up by Bosnians or bombed by Arabs. Similarly, they shouldn't mind when I express my true feelings about them! But in this day and age, lets not start ramming our ideology down people's throats because OUR idea of right is AUTOMATICALLY better than the next mans. This g'ment started the ball rolling by banning fox hunting and whatever you think about the rights and wrongs of that, from there - we started to be drawn towards this philosophy of imposing will upon people at a scale we haven't previously seen.

I'm not saying I'm a latte sipping, yoghurt knitting, straw sucking, hemp underpant wearing liberal - I'm not. I was (like I said) just a Regt gnr, and if that JNCO had called me and explained what had happened, I would have driven there to be by his side and (without prejudice) considered an immediate robust and more direct course of action against the person involved. Or (possibly!) having gained his details from Coy House I would have driven to the MDs house, politely rang the doorbell, apologised for the lateness of the hour and then carefully explained what (possibly in contravention of his licence) was happening. I would have smiled, and told him that in the past, the media had a nasty habit of escalating these things, so (in his interests) would he like to call the night clerk and clarify matters? Then, a day or two later, he would have received a letter apologising profusely for my intrusion, and thanking him for his help. I might have suggested that together, we might be able to cobble together a few finely crafted words for the media and show how the owner of a respectable and established chain of hotels was going the extra mile for the troops by resolving issues at 0230 and was also keen and happy to offer a 20% discount for all military parties in the area. Win win - we are the greatest in the world at fighting to obtain and maintain the peace through diplomacy, guile, tact and cunning, so lets not forget those qualities which make us what we are. Lets be diplomatic, or at least, lets not lose the ability to be diplomatic.

But to achieve real success, we need to pace things, and apply a response thats appropriate. We cannot run at FULL ON!! all the time, we can't do it and the public won't stand for it (believe me). We have to (red on.. in the door.. stand by to puke).. walk softly and carry a big stick. And if that wasn't bad enough, we also need to.. pick our battles.

[Double Zero]

" A breech of the peace " - was that a freudian slip ?!

[airborne_artist]

but as an aside, its still law for all company directors to have a brass plate attached to their house, stating their names and company details anyway!

Not true - I've never had one, nor had any instructions from HMG to do so.

[StbdD]

Sorry, not buying it.

We 'make our own beds' when we go out and 'let off steam'. It is a bad assumption that forces personnel had never 'relaxed' in the establishment in question.

Professionals pay their damages, punks don't. If you can't tell them apart why blame the hotellier for making a broad choice?

In fact, there is certainly no reason to welcome us back after uniformed, irresponsible ****heads preceeded us. There are heroes, and there are chavs in uniform.

There is no reason to expect a civvie establishment to foot the destruction/booze/food bill of forces personnel and we all know damned well it happens.

Want a room? If they tell you to dig very deep for a deposit, blame your predecessors.

[Mmmmnice]

Lots of points well put and, as ex-mil who has received more discounts and praise for my work when on holiday in California than here at home, I am frequently disappointed by the lack of support for our troops at home. But the flip side boils down to one individual making a very poor decision, and an apology has duly turned up (probably helped by the outcry) - hands up all out there who have never made a bad decision. Time for the foaming at the mouth to cease maybe?

[NURSE]

not Really that surprised its been the attitude of this country to its service men and now women for a very long time. Any one Remember the Poem by Kipling?

"Tommy"
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

-- Rudyard Kipling

[pr00ne]

Why do people constantly drag up that sodding poem everytime this topic rears it's ugly head!

[Double Zero]

Probably because it's an ugly head, and the sodding poem is relevant. Agree I may have seen it enough now, someone will have to come up with a new one...

A tentative attempt - at least others can only get better...


Bloody Squaddies beating up our thugs,
leave that to chav's, they're our sodding pubs...

Bloody Navy stopping our drugs,
now how do we fuel our friday night thugs...

Bloody Airforce frightning cattle all over the nation,
bastard's so fast I couldn't claim compensation...

Hang on, there's a war in some nasty hole,

Good on you lads, wish I was in your role !


I'll get me coat...

[22/7 Master]

A couple of years ago I was ordered to return from a working visit to the US in order to collect kit and join Sqn in Cyprus where ops were underway. So 24 hours after leaving the states I arrived at BZN bleary eyed.

I duly reported to Brize in Deserts and carrying flying kit and bang stick to be told I couldn't travel in uniform as it may scare the other passengers and I couldn't take a firearm to Cyprus, and anyway there was no space on the flight.

Under the belief the flight must have been going to a Cypriot airport I asked to see the Duty MovO and rapidly changed into civvies.

Duty MovO rebriefed, he bumped off indulgence passengers (who has been prioritised ahead of me) and arrived at RAF Akrotiri idc avec shooter but in civvies.

Unbelievable that uniform cannot be worn between 2 military airfields!

It's not just hotel receptionists who make the wrong call.

[taxydual]

I too, in my time, a la 22/7 MASTER, was roused from my slumbers and sent at very, very short notice, with my boss, Eastwards. We too were told to wear full cabbage kit and carry bang sticks etc.

We too were told (by the steward of the VC5) that we had to get changed into civvies, the reason being, that if the aircraft diverted to another country, the pair of us could be seen as an 'invasion force'.

A two man invasion force! We were good, but not that good!


Sorry, just realised. Way off thread

[Al R]

Brass plaques.

AA said: "Not true - I've never had one, nor had any instructions from HMG to do so"

Its still a requirement from the days of tea merchants all working and living in the same street, and in the next, all spice merchants etc working and living together too. As bizarre as it sounds, it has never been revoked but just sits there, forgotten.

AA,

Sad I know, but I had a quick look. The reality seems to be somewhere in the middle and looks as if its aimed at those who work mostly from home.

"Under the Companies Act 1985 your company must state its name (as it appears in its memorandum of association) in certain places and on its business stationery. Your company must also give certain information on all its business letters, order forms and websites. Every company must paint or affix its name on the outside of every office or place in which its business is carried on - even if it is a director's home. The name must be kept painted or affixed and it must be both conspicuous and legible."

[airborne_artist]

Some poeple still respect Servicemen

Letter from today's Telegraph:

"The son of friends of ours, recently home from Afghanistan to attend the funeral of a fellow officer who had been killed there, was returning by train to Oxford when he was approached by the guard.

The guard checked his warrant and requested that the soldier follow him. On asking the reason, the guard replied: “Sir, on my train you travel first class.”"

Now there's a man who deserves a beer