Andover aircraft crash at Pisa
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Andover aircraft crash at Pisa
Does anyone recall, and have details of, the fatal crash of an Andover aircraft at Pisa in the early 1970s. It was carrying trainee parachutists of the Falcons team, I believe. It was reported to have been executing a 'tactical' takeoff, and experienced an engine failure. What is the definition of a 'tactical' takeoff? Max performance? Short field?
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guff
I remember this one ! Wasnt there a full page picture of it on the front of The Sun. Very sad but despite everything I believe the fatalities were light. By the way a friend of mine was on the crash and smash team sent to recover the wreckage and had a great time.
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I know nothing of the specific crash, but having recently worked with one of the QQ Andovers (Open Skies- no longer used), I was surprised that it required Water Methanol for take-offs (ISTR it could carry enough for about 8T/Os), because following an EFATO, there was not enough power from one engine to continue to climb.
Given water meth is considered DAC, it had to be pre-positioned, making this airframe a pain to operate on anything other than short missions.
STH
Given water meth is considered DAC, it had to be pre-positioned, making this airframe a pain to operate on anything other than short missions.
STH
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Don't recall an Andover accident at that time, but IIRC, 24 Sqn lost a Herc off Pisa in 1971. All killed sadly. I think it was participating in an exercise and carrying Italian paratroopers
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Is this the accident you are referring to?
ASN Aircraft accident Hawker Siddeley HS-748 Andover C.1 XS609 Siena/Ampugnano Airport (SAY)
http://www.baaa-acro.com/photos/Avro748-RAF-Sienne.jpg
ASN Aircraft accident Hawker Siddeley HS-748 Andover C.1 XS609 Siena/Ampugnano Airport (SAY)
http://www.baaa-acro.com/photos/Avro748-RAF-Sienne.jpg
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Andover STOL take - off. Run down the runway with 27 flap. Rotate early at around 80 kts gear up , lower nose and at 96 kts you reach V2 and climb away. On this T/O there was a real or perceived engine failure between the two numbers. The captain failed to control and the aircraft crashed. Pins were left in one of the rear doors which led to addidional fatalities.
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Water Meth was not required on all Andover Take-offs, you could run on Wet or Dry power, Water Meth increased power by approx 25% and so you could lift more weight off shorter runways if it was used.
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I believe the fatalities were light. By the way a friend of mine was on the crash and smash team sent to recover the wreckage and had a great time.
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I recall an RNZAF Andover Captain earning an AFC for an emergency flight to the Chatham Islands [south of the South Island of New Zealand to collect a sick child. It was a daylight landing but due to various reasons , a night take-off , on a grass runway with no airfield lighting! The RNZAF bought 10 ex-RAF Andovers and flew them for the best part of 20 years or so!
With vehicle headlights as illumination, he decided needs must, and employed a water meth take-off to gain as much height as quickly as possible.
With vehicle headlights as illumination, he decided needs must, and employed a water meth take-off to gain as much height as quickly as possible.
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South Sudan is littered with wrecked Andovers. Last time I saw the one at Rumbek it was down to a spar attachment frame, the rest being recycled as pots and pans in the area.
Alzheimers? What's that?
Alzheimers? What's that?
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At V2 for 22 flap (96 kts at normal weights), flaps were brought to 22 and the aircraft was for the first time perf A. Water meth was always used on a STOL take off. Why risk the dead mans gap when it could be avoided by the additional power.
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My recollections of this are a bit hazy but, apparently, post crash some of the survivors managed to egress the smoking wreckage by climbing through the ac windows, with parachutes on.......extraordinarily lucky people!
Trials afterwords showed this to be impossible! a bit like the Lightning in the hangar and the teccie standing on the bang seat when he heard a ticking noise.
Navigator on the Andover later arrived on 50 Sqn at Waddington, forget his name but a Jockistanian by birth, he later retired as a Wg Cdr or Gp Capt.
3P
Trials afterwords showed this to be impossible! a bit like the Lightning in the hangar and the teccie standing on the bang seat when he heard a ticking noise.
Navigator on the Andover later arrived on 50 Sqn at Waddington, forget his name but a Jockistanian by birth, he later retired as a Wg Cdr or Gp Capt.
3P
Not too sure if I have met the pilot of this a/c.
When I was a CCF air cadet, we went to camp at RAF Church Fenton in April 1991, the SATCO, who was Sqn/Ldr in his 50s had aircrew wings but since been grounded cos he was flying a transport a/c that crashed on take off in Italian airbase or airport either 60s or 70 and there had been a few fatalities but it was enough for him to be grounded probably due to injuries
Can't remember his name but he was also the ACLO and he was building his own kit built aircraft in one of the sheds at Church Fenton.
If I could put any resemblance to a famous actor/character it would be to Robert Culp.
When I was a CCF air cadet, we went to camp at RAF Church Fenton in April 1991, the SATCO, who was Sqn/Ldr in his 50s had aircrew wings but since been grounded cos he was flying a transport a/c that crashed on take off in Italian airbase or airport either 60s or 70 and there had been a few fatalities but it was enough for him to be grounded probably due to injuries
Can't remember his name but he was also the ACLO and he was building his own kit built aircraft in one of the sheds at Church Fenton.
If I could put any resemblance to a famous actor/character it would be to Robert Culp.
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Pisa crash
The Herc that you mention crashed on November 7th 1971. I was the flight engineer on the command aircraft when he went in behind us after a Hi-Lo departure of the first section of aircraft involved. Took a while to find the remains because the authorities were looking in the wrong location.
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It was a long time ago, and I was instructing at Manby then, but I seem to recall that they had incorrectly selected "30 degrees Flap" (which with the tab was actually 105 degrees Flap) for take-off and they ran out of water-methanol injection on the port side whilst trying to accelerate after "rotate" (the port tank held 27 gallons of WM as opposed to the stbd tank which held 31 gallons).
The fatalities were as a result of people (including the ALM) not being strapped in for take-off.
Mind you I could be wrong - only got 4663 hrs on Andovers.
The fatalities were as a result of people (including the ALM) not being strapped in for take-off.
Mind you I could be wrong - only got 4663 hrs on Andovers.