RNAS Yeovilton - what if?
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RNAS Yeovilton - what if?
Looking at several recent threads on the forum, I must ask what is the future if any for VL?
SHF at Lyneham(Sea Kings) and Future Lynx cancelled what will remain at VL other than 5 Grobs and 2 Hawks?
Planning application gone in for a new command block so the writing must be on the wall, or am I being silly
SHF at Lyneham(Sea Kings) and Future Lynx cancelled what will remain at VL other than 5 Grobs and 2 Hawks?
Planning application gone in for a new command block so the writing must be on the wall, or am I being silly
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Here are few ideas to add to the discussion - all said without any insider knowledge so dont go off on one - just some thoughts (which I am happy to poke if they are really that 'off the wall'!):
Replace one ageing ASW that has been 'cut n shut' to make a troop lifter and replace with a more modern ASW,and 'cut n shut' that into a troop lifter. Try and align ASW Merlin to RAF Merlin and Junglie crew use the same simulator, tactics, RWOETU output and regulatory environment etc.
Doesn't really matter where the aircraft/base is (that is why we get paid Boarding School Allowance/CEA/MQs etc), but probably efficient and effective to co-locate with the RAF Merlins (common OCU, common spares, common engineering practices etc).
Now use Yeovilton for what is left of the Merlin ASW fleet (just enough to cover Maritime commitments) and more importantly FLynx. That should be the 'quid pro quo' for the Fisheads - they get to keep a 'minor' Merlin ASW fleet, but a 'major' Lynx capability. Make 815 and 847 multi-role (both can conduct blue water and littoral ops) and put the Pongos South Side (because they really do smell
but they are nice and close to SPTA (unlike their current location).
Make Lyneham the SH superbase and Yeovilton the FLynx super base. As to Culdrose - Hawks and Wet Dreams (well their replacement) and more importantly the emerging Joint capability of the Sea King AEW or if it really does have to be cost neutral (dont you just hate that term!), leave the few Hawks at Yeovilton and RAF Nav trg and RN Observer trg combine and leave the Sea King 'node' at Culdrose.
What are we going to do with the Sea Kings, just after the GTi version has been delivered - simple, if they expected the Fisheads to fly it on until 2030, then surely it would be good enough for a future SAR privatisation contract - reduce the cost as the 'winner' doesn't have to resource shiney new aircraft, MoD/H M Government supplies to reduce contract cost.
Sorry Fisheads - not a time to be territorial. It looks as though we are losing Odiham and Benson, you can cough up Culdrose, especially if it means that you get something more capable than the Sea King to bring on Operations! Here is another quid pro quo for you, we'll even throw in the Danish Merlins for you to ensure that you really can do the Amphib stuff and also concurrently help out with Land/JHC tasks - you signed up to bobbing around in boats, you guys are welcome to it and I am sure the Freaks would sacrifice the Danish cabs for the greater good.
Sorry Pinger boys, but dont worry, I am sure that when they convert your Merlins they will ensure that the Radars and Sonars are all stored properly just in case the 'Hunt For Red October' kicks off again and not unlike now when the SH fleet desperately needs bolstering, then in the years to come the Merlin Sqn at Yeovilton can be re-roled by some ex-troop lifters and the capability built back up as RUSI and PJHQ see that threat increasing more than the current 'threat' to world peace.
If we are that broke and the priority is winning the 'war'/campaign in the Stan then sadly if the Treasury really are going to take Defence in general to the wire (and beyond) then this may alleviate some of the pressure on the frontline SH force and the most important thing of all save human life on operations
But, Belvedere (or whatever it is called) really is taking a very long time and a lot of man hours to reach a decision - too much Service politics combined with too much Governmental politics does not bode well for a swift resolution and execution of the plan.
Replace one ageing ASW that has been 'cut n shut' to make a troop lifter and replace with a more modern ASW,and 'cut n shut' that into a troop lifter. Try and align ASW Merlin to RAF Merlin and Junglie crew use the same simulator, tactics, RWOETU output and regulatory environment etc.
Doesn't really matter where the aircraft/base is (that is why we get paid Boarding School Allowance/CEA/MQs etc), but probably efficient and effective to co-locate with the RAF Merlins (common OCU, common spares, common engineering practices etc).
Now use Yeovilton for what is left of the Merlin ASW fleet (just enough to cover Maritime commitments) and more importantly FLynx. That should be the 'quid pro quo' for the Fisheads - they get to keep a 'minor' Merlin ASW fleet, but a 'major' Lynx capability. Make 815 and 847 multi-role (both can conduct blue water and littoral ops) and put the Pongos South Side (because they really do smell
but they are nice and close to SPTA (unlike their current location).Make Lyneham the SH superbase and Yeovilton the FLynx super base. As to Culdrose - Hawks and Wet Dreams (well their replacement) and more importantly the emerging Joint capability of the Sea King AEW or if it really does have to be cost neutral (dont you just hate that term!), leave the few Hawks at Yeovilton and RAF Nav trg and RN Observer trg combine and leave the Sea King 'node' at Culdrose.
What are we going to do with the Sea Kings, just after the GTi version has been delivered - simple, if they expected the Fisheads to fly it on until 2030, then surely it would be good enough for a future SAR privatisation contract - reduce the cost as the 'winner' doesn't have to resource shiney new aircraft, MoD/H M Government supplies to reduce contract cost.
Sorry Fisheads - not a time to be territorial. It looks as though we are losing Odiham and Benson, you can cough up Culdrose, especially if it means that you get something more capable than the Sea King to bring on Operations! Here is another quid pro quo for you, we'll even throw in the Danish Merlins for you to ensure that you really can do the Amphib stuff and also concurrently help out with Land/JHC tasks - you signed up to bobbing around in boats, you guys are welcome to it and I am sure the Freaks would sacrifice the Danish cabs for the greater good.
Sorry Pinger boys, but dont worry, I am sure that when they convert your Merlins they will ensure that the Radars and Sonars are all stored properly just in case the 'Hunt For Red October' kicks off again and not unlike now when the SH fleet desperately needs bolstering, then in the years to come the Merlin Sqn at Yeovilton can be re-roled by some ex-troop lifters and the capability built back up as RUSI and PJHQ see that threat increasing more than the current 'threat' to world peace.
If we are that broke and the priority is winning the 'war'/campaign in the Stan then sadly if the Treasury really are going to take Defence in general to the wire (and beyond) then this may alleviate some of the pressure on the frontline SH force and the most important thing of all save human life on operations
But, Belvedere (or whatever it is called) really is taking a very long time and a lot of man hours to reach a decision - too much Service politics combined with too much Governmental politics does not bode well for a swift resolution and execution of the plan.
Last edited by MaroonMan4; 4th Aug 2008 at 11:14.
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Rumour I heard was that 847 was getting the left over AH that we are currently looking to or already have in store! All that previous HMS Ocean work the 656 did not being used has raised a few questions throughout the dark blue and Royal Marine community (especially after Royal really seeing what AH brings to the party out here) - when so many AH are idling in hangars collecting dust and 847 could be losing their Lynx if FLynx falls over it makes sense.
I suppose it is a fair one - if we cannot man or support them, lets put the airframes to good use with an organisation that can. Maybe not fully UOR'd up, but I bet you that 847 would take them anyway, and certainly better than their current Lynx fleet.
I suppose it is a fair one - if we cannot man or support them, lets put the airframes to good use with an organisation that can. Maybe not fully UOR'd up, but I bet you that 847 would take them anyway, and certainly better than their current Lynx fleet.
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Originally Posted by MaroonMan4
Sorry Pinger boys, but dont worry, I am sure that when they convert your Merlins they will ensure that the Radars and Sonars are all stored properly just in case the 'Hunt For Red October' kicks off again and not unlike now when the SH fleet desperately needs bolstering, then in the years to come the Merlin Sqn at Yeovilton can be re-roled by some ex-troop lifters and the capability built back up as RUSI and PJHQ see that threat increasing more than the current 'threat' to world peace.
At this rate, we will be left with just a "World Class" Army and supporting Air component.
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I alwasy understood that Yeovilton would alwasy be safe from the bancounters because of the vast funding it gets from NATO. The threat to Yeovilton is not the Lynx or Seakings leaving but should NATO pull the plug then the purse would be empty.
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I alwasy understood that Yeovilton would alwasy be safe from the bancounters because of the vast funding it gets from NATO. The threat to Yeovilton is not the Lynx or Seakings leaving but should NATO pull the plug then the purse would be empty.
Funding for what?
One NATO unit that occupies a small area?
Funding for what?
One NATO unit that occupies a small area?
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I thought the only airfield in the UK to have vast NATO funding was RAF Fairford.
The only unit that comes under NATO at Yeovilton is the NATO Multi Service Electronic Warfare Support Group (MWESG) as far as i know which provides ground and air support for that environment (Falcon 20 pods etc too).
Apart from that, i don't see why NATO would fund RNAS Yeovilton at all.
The only unit that comes under NATO at Yeovilton is the NATO Multi Service Electronic Warfare Support Group (MWESG) as far as i know which provides ground and air support for that environment (Falcon 20 pods etc too).
Apart from that, i don't see why NATO would fund RNAS Yeovilton at all.
Navaleye,
What! A fighter without a gun, and one and where the Observer can't see out?
Brilliant...................................
What! A fighter without a gun, and one and where the Observer can't see out?
Brilliant...................................
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Maroon Man
"Replace one ageing ASW that has been 'cut n shut' to make a troop lifter and replace with a more modern ASW,and 'cut n shut' that into a troop lifter. Try and align ASW Merlin to RAF Merlin and Junglie crew use the same simulator, tactics, RWOETU output and regulatory environment etc."
Generally agree, though no cut and shut required and sim cannot be shared as cockpit too different. Just give it a DAS, 2 extra wheels and NVG. The Pinging Kit removes easily, the aircrew training is more of an issue.
"Doesn't really matter where the aircraft/base is (that is why we get paid Boarding School Allowance/CEA/MQs etc), but probably efficient and effective to co-locate with the RAF Merlins (common OCU, common spares, common engineering practices etc)."
Disagree. The vast majority of Merlin infastructure is at Culdrose along with the largest number of Merlin. Move the RAF Merlin.
"Now use Yeovilton for what is left of the Merlin ASW fleet (just enough to cover Maritime commitments) and more importantly FLynx. That should be the 'quid pro quo' for the Fisheads - they get to keep a 'minor' Merlin ASW fleet, but a 'major' Lynx capability. Make 815 and 847 multi-role (both can conduct blue water and littoral ops) and put the Pongos South Side (because they really do smell but they are nice and close to SPTA (unlike their current location)."
Don't know where to start with this one. It is not a quid pro quo situation. You have a budget, we have a budget. Just because you cannot balance yours, doesn't mean we have to lose core capability.
815 and 847 is not a realistic dual role by any stretch of the imagination. 847 has no blue water role whatsoever, and litoral is stretching it. It is difficult enough for each type to remain current in all their own areas let alone doubling up. (Unlike 847, the Army don't even attempt to keep any more then a core of QHIs current on all roles, and that doesn't even include mountains/arctic)
"What are we going to do with the Sea Kings, just after the GTi version has been delivered - simple, if they expected the Fisheads to fly it on until 2030, then surely it would be good enough for a future SAR privatisation contract - reduce the cost as the 'winner' doesn't have to resource shiney new aircraft, MoD/H M Government supplies to reduce contract cost."
Oh.
My.
God.
The one thing that would put a stop to any "reducing contract cost" would be specifying Sea Kings.
"Sorry Fisheads - not a time to be territorial. It looks as though we are losing Odiham and Benson, you can cough up Culdrose, especially if it means that you get something more capable than the Sea King to bring on Operations! Here is another quid pro quo for you, we'll even throw in the Danish Merlins for you to ensure that you really can do the Amphib stuff and also concurrently help out with Land/JHC tasks - you signed up to bobbing around in boats, you guys are welcome to it and I am sure the Freaks would sacrifice the Danish cabs for the greater good."
Very much agree that the green Merlins should all come to the RN to replace the Junglie Sea Kings. RN having all Merlin will reduce stores problems, especially when the Merlin bagger arrives which I am certain it will. The RAF should then go and buy a new helicopter they really want, and in suitable numbers.
"the most important thing of all save human life on operations"
If only it were so simple, then we could just come home problem solved. The most important thing is to succesfully carry out the operation. Trying to minimise our casualties is merely a side consideration along with cost. Sad, but thats the real world.
"Replace one ageing ASW that has been 'cut n shut' to make a troop lifter and replace with a more modern ASW,and 'cut n shut' that into a troop lifter. Try and align ASW Merlin to RAF Merlin and Junglie crew use the same simulator, tactics, RWOETU output and regulatory environment etc."
Generally agree, though no cut and shut required and sim cannot be shared as cockpit too different. Just give it a DAS, 2 extra wheels and NVG. The Pinging Kit removes easily, the aircrew training is more of an issue.
"Doesn't really matter where the aircraft/base is (that is why we get paid Boarding School Allowance/CEA/MQs etc), but probably efficient and effective to co-locate with the RAF Merlins (common OCU, common spares, common engineering practices etc)."
Disagree. The vast majority of Merlin infastructure is at Culdrose along with the largest number of Merlin. Move the RAF Merlin.
"Now use Yeovilton for what is left of the Merlin ASW fleet (just enough to cover Maritime commitments) and more importantly FLynx. That should be the 'quid pro quo' for the Fisheads - they get to keep a 'minor' Merlin ASW fleet, but a 'major' Lynx capability. Make 815 and 847 multi-role (both can conduct blue water and littoral ops) and put the Pongos South Side (because they really do smell but they are nice and close to SPTA (unlike their current location)."
Don't know where to start with this one. It is not a quid pro quo situation. You have a budget, we have a budget. Just because you cannot balance yours, doesn't mean we have to lose core capability.
815 and 847 is not a realistic dual role by any stretch of the imagination. 847 has no blue water role whatsoever, and litoral is stretching it. It is difficult enough for each type to remain current in all their own areas let alone doubling up. (Unlike 847, the Army don't even attempt to keep any more then a core of QHIs current on all roles, and that doesn't even include mountains/arctic)
"What are we going to do with the Sea Kings, just after the GTi version has been delivered - simple, if they expected the Fisheads to fly it on until 2030, then surely it would be good enough for a future SAR privatisation contract - reduce the cost as the 'winner' doesn't have to resource shiney new aircraft, MoD/H M Government supplies to reduce contract cost."
Oh.
My.
God.
The one thing that would put a stop to any "reducing contract cost" would be specifying Sea Kings.
"Sorry Fisheads - not a time to be territorial. It looks as though we are losing Odiham and Benson, you can cough up Culdrose, especially if it means that you get something more capable than the Sea King to bring on Operations! Here is another quid pro quo for you, we'll even throw in the Danish Merlins for you to ensure that you really can do the Amphib stuff and also concurrently help out with Land/JHC tasks - you signed up to bobbing around in boats, you guys are welcome to it and I am sure the Freaks would sacrifice the Danish cabs for the greater good."
Very much agree that the green Merlins should all come to the RN to replace the Junglie Sea Kings. RN having all Merlin will reduce stores problems, especially when the Merlin bagger arrives which I am certain it will. The RAF should then go and buy a new helicopter they really want, and in suitable numbers.
"the most important thing of all save human life on operations"
If only it were so simple, then we could just come home problem solved. The most important thing is to succesfully carry out the operation. Trying to minimise our casualties is merely a side consideration along with cost. Sad, but thats the real world.
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Tourist,
All balanced and considered response.
I dont agree with all of your points - but between us we have offered 2 )of many) Courses Of Action and options to our lords and masters.....
Now will they stop conducting paralysis by analaysis and making a bl00dy decision, there are lives at stake by their faffing.
If these 2 posts, with 2 differing options are 'missing the big picture' then please will someone tell us what it is! By all means give the Fisheads the Merlins (the logistics/single aircraft fleet should embrace that concept) and give us more CH47 (old HC3s in bound, but lets look at the F (fatties) and join the lengthening queue for that very capable aircraft.
Stop this indecisiveness and look at capability (not only for this war, but also tomorrows war) and lets have some leadership and direction rather than some random posting on this web site.
Once again Tourist, I dont agree with all that you say, but your argument and options is just are as valid as mine.
All balanced and considered response.
I dont agree with all of your points - but between us we have offered 2 )of many) Courses Of Action and options to our lords and masters.....
Now will they stop conducting paralysis by analaysis and making a bl00dy decision, there are lives at stake by their faffing.
If these 2 posts, with 2 differing options are 'missing the big picture' then please will someone tell us what it is! By all means give the Fisheads the Merlins (the logistics/single aircraft fleet should embrace that concept) and give us more CH47 (old HC3s in bound, but lets look at the F (fatties) and join the lengthening queue for that very capable aircraft.
Stop this indecisiveness and look at capability (not only for this war, but also tomorrows war) and lets have some leadership and direction rather than some random posting on this web site.
Once again Tourist, I dont agree with all that you say, but your argument and options is just are as valid as mine.
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"Stop this indecisiveness and look at capability (not only for this war, but also tomorrows war) and lets have some leadership and direction rather than some random posting on this web site."
Amen
Amen