PVR and OOA
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PVR and OOA
Heard a rumour recently that the RAF can't warn you for any Out Of Areas once you have PVR'd, but you have to honour any that you were warned about prior to PVR.
Any truth in this and if so, where is it laid down?
Thanks, Mr.R
Any truth in this and if so, where is it laid down?
Thanks, Mr.R
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PVR and OOA
Hi,new member here so you won't have heard of me.
As far as I am aware these rules were in when i first joined the RAF in'73 and were definitely in when i left the Army in 87.
Not sure if they were altered between then and now.
Brian
As far as I am aware these rules were in when i first joined the RAF in'73 and were definitely in when i left the Army in 87.
Not sure if they were altered between then and now.
Brian
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Originally Posted by Mr. Rotorvator
Heard a rumour recently that the RAF can't warn you for any Out Of Areas once you have PVR'd, but you have to honour any that you were warned about prior to PVR.
Any truth in this and if so, where is it laid down?
Thanks, Mr.R
Any truth in this and if so, where is it laid down?
Thanks, Mr.R
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Depends on the PVR waiting time, your branch or trade manning state and if its a full moon or not (or so it seems).
Once notified of a det you will (most probably) go on it - you may even be brought forward to enable completion of a full OOA tour.
You may be less likely to be stiffed if you have already submitted the forms - get them date stamped in PSF / Admin central / whatever its called this week. Had I not had my NGR in I would have spent my 2nd Christmas in 4 away, less than some but more than many others.
We had a cpl who pvr'd on being given a det, they did the det and then tried to withdraw the PVR - nope said manning, you wanted to go, go.
Many factors are brought to bear. Not least being your relationship with your boss and whether or not they are prepared to run light if you seek an earlier release for employment reasons.
Good luck whichever way it goes, if you are seriously thinking of jumping then jump. The grass is not much more green out here - and it still needs cutting.
Once notified of a det you will (most probably) go on it - you may even be brought forward to enable completion of a full OOA tour.
You may be less likely to be stiffed if you have already submitted the forms - get them date stamped in PSF / Admin central / whatever its called this week. Had I not had my NGR in I would have spent my 2nd Christmas in 4 away, less than some but more than many others.
We had a cpl who pvr'd on being given a det, they did the det and then tried to withdraw the PVR - nope said manning, you wanted to go, go.
Many factors are brought to bear. Not least being your relationship with your boss and whether or not they are prepared to run light if you seek an earlier release for employment reasons.
Good luck whichever way it goes, if you are seriously thinking of jumping then jump. The grass is not much more green out here - and it still needs cutting.
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If you get your PVR in before JPA gives you an OOA, then you cannot go OOA. FACT
I think that AP3392 (available via intranet, with search facility) is the written guru, but as one who researched the facts (PVR) with a microscope recently I know that it is fact.
ACOS Manning may well try and stiff you, but find the written word, and quote the General recently who incited 'insobordanation' (Sp?) by questioning the decisions of those who should know better. OC PSF at my last base was heard to say that ACOS Manning are on their own planet with crisis management at present and will try through either ignoranace or desperation to meet their needs without a concern for yours.
I think that AP3392 (available via intranet, with search facility) is the written guru, but as one who researched the facts (PVR) with a microscope recently I know that it is fact.
ACOS Manning may well try and stiff you, but find the written word, and quote the General recently who incited 'insobordanation' (Sp?) by questioning the decisions of those who should know better. OC PSF at my last base was heard to say that ACOS Manning are on their own planet with crisis management at present and will try through either ignoranace or desperation to meet their needs without a concern for yours.
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OC PSF at my last base was heard to say that ACOS Manning are on their own planet with crisis management at present and will try through either ignoranace or desperation to meet their needs without a concern for yours.
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Besides, if they try and send you after you have PVRd - cite resettlement plans you have made and put an Freedom of Information request in asking how many other people have been disadvantaged like that - should work a treat!
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Get m------ly do-n-raded. That seems to work . It did for the two people that got me going out 8 months earlier than I was first meant to and to a completely different location!
That seems to work . It did for the two people that got me going out 8 months earlier than I was first meant to and to a completely different location!
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Me Again
Chaps, sorry to harp on.
Had a search in the APs but can't find a reference to this question...any-one got chapter and verse on this?
Don't really want to show my hand to ACOS Manning too early, you understand!
Had a search in the APs but can't find a reference to this question...any-one got chapter and verse on this?
Don't really want to show my hand to ACOS Manning too early, you understand!
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I fear that you may be disappointed and that the non-listing for such OOA trips was, and still is
, at the discretion of the drafters. If you are considering jumping you may wish to volunteer for an away trip and do it, or put your papers in and take your chance.
You could always just ask the chf clk or your drafter where you are on the OOA list ..... for planning purposes
Depends what your plan is for after you give back the ID card.
If you are not commissioned try the NGR - 18 months notice, gives you time to get full resettlement etc. Don't know if the same is available to the commissioned bretheren.
Whatever you decide, decide and do it. Too many people spend too long agonising on what to do. Base the decision on best information available, if it all goes TU you can reflect on the factors, but accept the decision and its effects. Its been 2 1/2 months so far .....
, at the discretion of the drafters. If you are considering jumping you may wish to volunteer for an away trip and do it, or put your papers in and take your chance.You could always just ask the chf clk or your drafter where you are on the OOA list ..... for planning purposes
Depends what your plan is for after you give back the ID card.
If you are not commissioned try the NGR - 18 months notice, gives you time to get full resettlement etc. Don't know if the same is available to the commissioned bretheren.
Whatever you decide, decide and do it. Too many people spend too long agonising on what to do. Base the decision on best information available, if it all goes TU you can reflect on the factors, but accept the decision and its effects. Its been 2 1/2 months so far .....
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NGR
Whilst NGR is seen as the gentlemans route out over a leasurely 18 months allowing for full resettlement, you also need to know that it is strictly a one way street. No going back regardless of what the spectrum of life throws at you. This is potentialy a big disadvantage of this particular route because it is akin to declaring the full deck with no ace card up your sleeve.
(Mr R ref your PM question, you may well do.)
Whilst NGR is seen as the gentlemans route out over a leasurely 18 months allowing for full resettlement, you also need to know that it is strictly a one way street. No going back regardless of what the spectrum of life throws at you. This is potentialy a big disadvantage of this particular route because it is akin to declaring the full deck with no ace card up your sleeve.
(Mr R ref your PM question, you may well do.
)
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Pvr & Ooa
From the Chief Clerks Bulletin wrt PVR.....
Not withstanding a WT of 6 months, an individual in receipt of an attachment order or nominated in a tasking signal for movement to the Falkland Islands or any Out of Area Operation who applies for PVR may be held for up to 12 months provided it is forecast, at the date of application, that an individual will have returned to his/her station, having completed the detachment, within 12 months. Where return within 12 months is forecast, drafting staff will still make every effort to bring forward the period of detachment to enable an earlier PVR exit date. Where it is forecast that the applicant would not be back within 12 months, the application for PVR will normally be approved in accordance with the advised WT.
Your attention is drawn to QR 588 which details the regulations regarding applications for PVR from personnel who have not completed 3 yrs continuous whole-time service, calculated from the completion of basic trade training.
.....sounds woolly enough for them to stiff you if they want to!
Not withstanding a WT of 6 months, an individual in receipt of an attachment order or nominated in a tasking signal for movement to the Falkland Islands or any Out of Area Operation who applies for PVR may be held for up to 12 months provided it is forecast, at the date of application, that an individual will have returned to his/her station, having completed the detachment, within 12 months. Where return within 12 months is forecast, drafting staff will still make every effort to bring forward the period of detachment to enable an earlier PVR exit date. Where it is forecast that the applicant would not be back within 12 months, the application for PVR will normally be approved in accordance with the advised WT.
Your attention is drawn to QR 588 which details the regulations regarding applications for PVR from personnel who have not completed 3 yrs continuous whole-time service, calculated from the completion of basic trade training.
.....sounds woolly enough for them to stiff you if they want to!
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If you've got another job in the pipeline(written), PVR and request to be released earlier that the waiting time, that should solve any OOA problems. Providing of course you were not warned for OOA prior to application going in.
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I was warned of an OOA just prior to my PVR going in (I was already decided in any case). They promoted me to Sqn Ldr anyway despite my "regrettably I am unable etc" response to the blue letter and off I went to Basra in acting rank.
They threatened me with PJHQ until pretty much the last minute though I knew PJHQ weren't interested in having someone so briefly. Eventually, when PMA had to concede that PJHQ wasn't an option, they refused to allow me back on the Sqn due to some nonsense about rank conflict with Execs. Offering to go back as a Flt Lt (I was only acting) was turned down too on some other obscure grounds and I served out my PVR at Innsworth.
The only credit I can offer them was that they did release me about 6 weeks early to allow me to take up an airline job.
My conclusion is that I think it was a lot to do with the relationship you have with your Deskie (I didn't think much of mine) and having a Boss who is willing to put in a good word. My final Boss at the Innsworth job was a real Gent (as were most of my previous ones) and I have much to thank him for.
As a word of encouragement, I haven't regretted the PVR for a second and my quality of life is immeasurably better in an airline. I was 29 when I put my PVR in and though I'd enjoyed my RAF time, I still have a much longer airline career ahead of me.
Good luck!!!
They threatened me with PJHQ until pretty much the last minute though I knew PJHQ weren't interested in having someone so briefly. Eventually, when PMA had to concede that PJHQ wasn't an option, they refused to allow me back on the Sqn due to some nonsense about rank conflict with Execs. Offering to go back as a Flt Lt (I was only acting) was turned down too on some other obscure grounds and I served out my PVR at Innsworth.
The only credit I can offer them was that they did release me about 6 weeks early to allow me to take up an airline job.
My conclusion is that I think it was a lot to do with the relationship you have with your Deskie (I didn't think much of mine) and having a Boss who is willing to put in a good word. My final Boss at the Innsworth job was a real Gent (as were most of my previous ones) and I have much to thank him for.
As a word of encouragement, I haven't regretted the PVR for a second and my quality of life is immeasurably better in an airline. I was 29 when I put my PVR in and though I'd enjoyed my RAF time, I still have a much longer airline career ahead of me.
Good luck!!!
