RAAF Flight Screening Programme
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"...I'm currently employed at 3 jobs to pay for flying, playing 2 team sports, boxing,......."
seriously - don't ever mention BOXING - hits to the head are frowned upon - big time by medicos - you will get ranked lower - if they say you wont be - they're just being polite
only mention bag punching only at the gym - at the most
stay away from the whole contact picture - rings alarm bells
cheers
seriously - don't ever mention BOXING - hits to the head are frowned upon - big time by medicos - you will get ranked lower - if they say you wont be - they're just being polite
only mention bag punching only at the gym - at the most
stay away from the whole contact picture - rings alarm bells
cheers
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: canberra
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everyone,
I've been reading this thread for quite a while now and it has been a huge help. I've completed assessment day and just passed all my medicals. I'm just waiting for my flight screening date (had my assessment day mid feb). Does anyone have any tips for flight screening?
Thank you.
I've been reading this thread for quite a while now and it has been a huge help. I've completed assessment day and just passed all my medicals. I'm just waiting for my flight screening date (had my assessment day mid feb). Does anyone have any tips for flight screening?
Thank you.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: canberra
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Croc101, you said not to mention any contact sports as it will lower my ranking. I was wondering where you've heard this? I've been quite open about myself doing muaythai and mma during the recruitment process...I'm just hoping this won't decrease my chances of getting in...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Age: 28
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cheers croc i'll certainly keep that in mind! at this stage the boxing is more of a fitness thing. im still looking for more details about the FSP in regards to 'bad habbits learned through previous flying experience' if anyone has any.
Hi Spider,
As you've had no other response, I'll try to assist with some examples of 'bad habits learned through previous flying experience'.
Flight Screening aims to assess your ability to learn in the airborne environment, it's not technically an assessment of what you already know. But, if you've been unfortunate to have experienced some well intentioned but wayward instruction, then your ability to put aside what you've learnt previously and take on board what you are being asked to do now, is of paramount importance.
The basics of military flying training revolve around the following, some of which you may already be familiar with:
A-viate - fly the aircraft accurately in the manner you want it flown (climbing/descending/straight and level/turning/whatever)
N-avigate - make the aircraft go where you want it to go to avoid hills/boundaries/CTA/clouds/whatever or to get from A to B as required.
C-ommunicate - talk to ATC/your wingman/duty instructor on the ground/whoever to achieve what you want
A-dministrate - fill in navigation logs, manage fuel balance, etc.
The above is known as ANCA - generally the priority is as above, sometimes you may come up with a reason, for example, to Communicate prior to completing all of your Navigating, but Aviate ALWAYS comes first.
Often whilst Aviating and Navigating, you may find the following bare basics handy:
Am I currently at a:
SAFE HEIGHT? (I'm not going to fly into a mountain)
SAFE HEADING? (I'm not going to fly outside of my airspace or into a mountain)
SAFE AIRSPEED? (I'm not going to overspeed or stall)
Note - I still go through a quick check of the above whenever I am presented with something during flight that is out of the ordinary...
To ensure we Aviate as per the above, we use the following:
A-ttitude (where the nose of the aircraft is pointing - in visual flight this is set by setting cockpit references (like the top of the instrument combing) against the outside horizon)
L-ookout - making sure I'm not going to hit anything/anyone
A-ttitude - we check it again, cause it's very important!
P-erformance - is the power and attitude I have set giving me the performance I want?
This is called the ALAP workcycle and it works when flying visually or when in cloud (well, the Lookout portion, not so much...)
It requires knowledge of the golden formula, which is:
POWER + ATTITUDE = PERFORMACE
An example for the PC9 is, for straight and level flight:
POWER (32 PSI) + ATTITUDE (zero degrees pitch) = PERFORMANCE (Straight and Level at 200 KIAS).
If we determine that we need to adjust our attitude to give us the performance we want, we do the following:
S-elect - a new attitude that should give us the performance we want.
H-old - that attitude and confirm it does what we want it to do.
T-rim - the forces from the control column/yoke/whatever to ensure there a NO forces left on the controls and continue with the ALAP workcycle.
The whole process above is ongoing.
Anyway, what does this have to do with "bad habits learned through previous flying experience"?
Well, it's possible a student becomes used to PERFORMANCE FLYING - an example of performance flying is reacting by pushing and pulling the stick to "fly the altimeter" in an attempt maintain level. Believe it or not, a military flying instructor would prefer to see an ab initio student attempting to set an attitude correctly and possibly deviating from their desired PERFORMANCE (eg altitude or airspeed), than someone nailing the altitude on the altimeter and not looking at the attitude.
Other bad habits are poor or non existent lookout, not trimming, not following the priorities of ANCA. For some, it can be difficult to change, hence why people talk about these "bad habits".
Personally, I think a small amount of experience is a good thing prior to Flight Screening. Being comfortable upside down in an aircraft can be of benefit - very hard to perform well if you feel sick, which most people do the first time they really throw an aircraft around!
Best job you can have, if you can initially manage the basics and grow from there - all the best!
As you've had no other response, I'll try to assist with some examples of 'bad habits learned through previous flying experience'.
Flight Screening aims to assess your ability to learn in the airborne environment, it's not technically an assessment of what you already know. But, if you've been unfortunate to have experienced some well intentioned but wayward instruction, then your ability to put aside what you've learnt previously and take on board what you are being asked to do now, is of paramount importance.
The basics of military flying training revolve around the following, some of which you may already be familiar with:
A-viate - fly the aircraft accurately in the manner you want it flown (climbing/descending/straight and level/turning/whatever)
N-avigate - make the aircraft go where you want it to go to avoid hills/boundaries/CTA/clouds/whatever or to get from A to B as required.
C-ommunicate - talk to ATC/your wingman/duty instructor on the ground/whoever to achieve what you want
A-dministrate - fill in navigation logs, manage fuel balance, etc.
The above is known as ANCA - generally the priority is as above, sometimes you may come up with a reason, for example, to Communicate prior to completing all of your Navigating, but Aviate ALWAYS comes first.
Often whilst Aviating and Navigating, you may find the following bare basics handy:
Am I currently at a:
SAFE HEIGHT? (I'm not going to fly into a mountain)
SAFE HEADING? (I'm not going to fly outside of my airspace or into a mountain)
SAFE AIRSPEED? (I'm not going to overspeed or stall)
Note - I still go through a quick check of the above whenever I am presented with something during flight that is out of the ordinary...
To ensure we Aviate as per the above, we use the following:
A-ttitude (where the nose of the aircraft is pointing - in visual flight this is set by setting cockpit references (like the top of the instrument combing) against the outside horizon)
L-ookout - making sure I'm not going to hit anything/anyone
A-ttitude - we check it again, cause it's very important!
P-erformance - is the power and attitude I have set giving me the performance I want?
This is called the ALAP workcycle and it works when flying visually or when in cloud (well, the Lookout portion, not so much...)
It requires knowledge of the golden formula, which is:
POWER + ATTITUDE = PERFORMACE
An example for the PC9 is, for straight and level flight:
POWER (32 PSI) + ATTITUDE (zero degrees pitch) = PERFORMANCE (Straight and Level at 200 KIAS).
If we determine that we need to adjust our attitude to give us the performance we want, we do the following:
S-elect - a new attitude that should give us the performance we want.
H-old - that attitude and confirm it does what we want it to do.
T-rim - the forces from the control column/yoke/whatever to ensure there a NO forces left on the controls and continue with the ALAP workcycle.
The whole process above is ongoing.
Anyway, what does this have to do with "bad habits learned through previous flying experience"?
Well, it's possible a student becomes used to PERFORMANCE FLYING - an example of performance flying is reacting by pushing and pulling the stick to "fly the altimeter" in an attempt maintain level. Believe it or not, a military flying instructor would prefer to see an ab initio student attempting to set an attitude correctly and possibly deviating from their desired PERFORMANCE (eg altitude or airspeed), than someone nailing the altitude on the altimeter and not looking at the attitude.
Other bad habits are poor or non existent lookout, not trimming, not following the priorities of ANCA. For some, it can be difficult to change, hence why people talk about these "bad habits".
Personally, I think a small amount of experience is a good thing prior to Flight Screening. Being comfortable upside down in an aircraft can be of benefit - very hard to perform well if you feel sick, which most people do the first time they really throw an aircraft around!
Best job you can have, if you can initially manage the basics and grow from there - all the best!
Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 5th Apr 2015 at 15:29.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Age: 28
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
josephfeatherweight! mate that's exactly the sort of stuff i've been looking for! thanks so much, i'll be sure to keep all that in mind during my civ flying. can i ask what your background is in regards to where you got this info?
thanks again, mate. incredibly helpful!
thanks again, mate. incredibly helpful!
I hope the info I provided does prove useful.
If your instructors in your civilian flying have not yet worked out the "attitude pictures" for straight and level, turning left/right, climbing and descending, etc, then it can be difficult for you to apply them if you have to make them up yourself. Best to ask if they use "attitude pictures", even if they are somewhat basic, before you commence training. One of the difficulties is that you must have the seating height exactly correct for the pictures to work. But, even setting a ballpark attitude in a C172 will stand you in good stead - it's the process that's important!
I was fortunate to enjoy a long career in the RAAF as a pilot and especially enjoyed instructing on the PC9 and on operational types.
Oh yeah, I agree with the others, don't mention the boxing...
If your instructors in your civilian flying have not yet worked out the "attitude pictures" for straight and level, turning left/right, climbing and descending, etc, then it can be difficult for you to apply them if you have to make them up yourself. Best to ask if they use "attitude pictures", even if they are somewhat basic, before you commence training. One of the difficulties is that you must have the seating height exactly correct for the pictures to work. But, even setting a ballpark attitude in a C172 will stand you in good stead - it's the process that's important!
I was fortunate to enjoy a long career in the RAAF as a pilot and especially enjoyed instructing on the PC9 and on operational types.
Oh yeah, I agree with the others, don't mention the boxing...
Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 8th Apr 2015 at 05:59.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Age: 28
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i'll be sure to keep all that in mind. it almost sounds like the RAAF just doesnt want you to become complacent and take the basics for granted. Thanks again, mate
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Gold Coast
Age: 44
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircrew and Gilbert's Syndrome
Hi All,
Has anyone experienced, or heard of, aircrew candidates with Gilbert's syndrome getting med-class 1?
My blood tests for the medical came back normal but with a slightly elevevated level of bilirubin (by-product of bile production in the liver). The DFR Dr thinks it could be Gilbert's Syndrome - it's harmless and doesnt require any medical treatment or care. She hasn't indicated its impact on my application but wants the GP to confirm it.
They are still letting me attend the OSB so it doesn't appear to be a major issue at this stage.
Doing my research the USAF has no issue with Gilbert's syndrome in aircrew and the RAF don't have an issue for serving members (no info on recruits), but I can't find anything for the ADF's view.
I know none of us are DFR Drs so I'm not looking for guarantees etc, but perhaps someone out there has had a similar experience.
Thanks,
Rooster.
Has anyone experienced, or heard of, aircrew candidates with Gilbert's syndrome getting med-class 1?
My blood tests for the medical came back normal but with a slightly elevevated level of bilirubin (by-product of bile production in the liver). The DFR Dr thinks it could be Gilbert's Syndrome - it's harmless and doesnt require any medical treatment or care. She hasn't indicated its impact on my application but wants the GP to confirm it.
They are still letting me attend the OSB so it doesn't appear to be a major issue at this stage.
Doing my research the USAF has no issue with Gilbert's syndrome in aircrew and the RAF don't have an issue for serving members (no info on recruits), but I can't find anything for the ADF's view.
I know none of us are DFR Drs so I'm not looking for guarantees etc, but perhaps someone out there has had a similar experience.
Thanks,
Rooster.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi All,
Has anyone experienced, or heard of, aircrew candidates with Gilbert's syndrome getting med-class 1?
My blood tests for the medical came back normal but with a slightly elevevated level of bilirubin (by-product of bile production in the liver). The DFR Dr thinks it could be Gilbert's Syndrome - it's harmless and doesnt require any medical treatment or care. She hasn't indicated its impact on my application but wants the GP to confirm it.
They are still letting me attend the OSB so it doesn't appear to be a major issue at this stage.
Doing my research the USAF has no issue with Gilbert's syndrome in aircrew and the RAF don't have an issue for serving members (no info on recruits), but I can't find anything for the ADF's view.
I know none of us are DFR Drs so I'm not looking for guarantees etc, but perhaps someone out there has had a similar experience.
Thanks,
Rooster.
Has anyone experienced, or heard of, aircrew candidates with Gilbert's syndrome getting med-class 1?
My blood tests for the medical came back normal but with a slightly elevevated level of bilirubin (by-product of bile production in the liver). The DFR Dr thinks it could be Gilbert's Syndrome - it's harmless and doesnt require any medical treatment or care. She hasn't indicated its impact on my application but wants the GP to confirm it.
They are still letting me attend the OSB so it doesn't appear to be a major issue at this stage.
Doing my research the USAF has no issue with Gilbert's syndrome in aircrew and the RAF don't have an issue for serving members (no info on recruits), but I can't find anything for the ADF's view.
I know none of us are DFR Drs so I'm not looking for guarantees etc, but perhaps someone out there has had a similar experience.
Thanks,
Rooster.
I haven't got any experience with regards to your particular case but I can give you some advice when it comes to dealing with Dfr.
I broke my right wrist and had surgery in order to put an internal fixation onto the bone. At one stage it looked as if I would have to have the metal plate removed in order to be class 1 as one particular doctor from the chief medical officers office told my dfr doctor. After much debate and with avmed weighing in and saying they would support a waiver for it they processed my application and eventually was made class 1 with no waiver required!
In short you may get the run around and it may seem that the application won't go anywhere but if you are persistent and make sure you take it as far as it needs to go you give yourself the best chance of a positive outcome. For me that included a class 4 appeal so get all your evidence together and do what you need to do to prove you don't have an issue.
Good luck!
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Age: 28
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has anyone been, or does anyone know of, a successful RAAF Pilot candidate who went through Flight Screening with more than 20 hours flying? If so, what, if any, difficulties did you face at Flight Screening that a candidate with little to no flying experience may not have had? At the same time what advantages, if any, did you have over someone who had little to no flying experience? I'm coming to a point in my flying training where i need to seriously think about what is going to give my RAAF Pilot Application a fighting chance. I know it's similar to an earlier post of mine but the more feedback and opinions the better! cheers all
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Going for SSO Army
Hi All
Just popping my head in... I have started my application for SSO Army... I going to be a retread does anyone know if this is likely to work against me?
I have my YOU session on the 6th of May and have gotten med clearence (so far) to proceed through.
I am a little concerned with my aptitude testing as I am a little rusty but will be working bigtime on the testing examples and any other quizzes I can get my hands on.
I have been out of the military for quite a while now and would appreciate and welcome any advice thrown my way.
Thanks
HP
Just popping my head in... I have started my application for SSO Army... I going to be a retread does anyone know if this is likely to work against me?
I have my YOU session on the 6th of May and have gotten med clearence (so far) to proceed through.
I am a little concerned with my aptitude testing as I am a little rusty but will be working bigtime on the testing examples and any other quizzes I can get my hands on.
I have been out of the military for quite a while now and would appreciate and welcome any advice thrown my way.
Thanks
HP
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are many successful candidates with hours, myself included. I had 70 going in and did very well. Another guy in my screening had 300 and didn't do so well. Two people from the previous group had about 1000 each and did very well.
When it comes to the flight screening flying component they want to purely see your learning rate. You don't actually learn to fly in the traditional sense, the instructor merely shows you a maneuver and you repeat it, monkey see monkey do. But with each flight you should be getting better at the maneuvers and not making the same mistakes.
It's not all about flying either, the board and how you present yourself plays a very large part as well. Yes the flight component is important but your leadership ability and public speaking skills plus your interview performance all combine to give you your total score so don't simply focus on the flying aspect.
When it comes to the flight screening flying component they want to purely see your learning rate. You don't actually learn to fly in the traditional sense, the instructor merely shows you a maneuver and you repeat it, monkey see monkey do. But with each flight you should be getting better at the maneuvers and not making the same mistakes.
It's not all about flying either, the board and how you present yourself plays a very large part as well. Yes the flight component is important but your leadership ability and public speaking skills plus your interview performance all combine to give you your total score so don't simply focus on the flying aspect.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: canberra
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Happiepants,
I had my YOU session around the end of last year.
From what I can remember, it was 75 logical reasoning, predicting patterns, word matching questions, etc and 20 or 25 maths questions.
I would recommend practising as many IQ/logical reasoning questions online that you can get your hands on.
For the maths section, it was about a year 10 maths level I think. Basic algebra, Pythagoras, SOHCAHTOA, basic geometry questions, etc.
I would also recommend practising questions with limited time as I think the biggest reason some people do well and some people don't is the time constraint.
The YOU session was pretty easy though I wouldn't stress. Just do some practice questions, go in there relaxed, and you should be fine
I had my YOU session around the end of last year.
From what I can remember, it was 75 logical reasoning, predicting patterns, word matching questions, etc and 20 or 25 maths questions.
I would recommend practising as many IQ/logical reasoning questions online that you can get your hands on.
For the maths section, it was about a year 10 maths level I think. Basic algebra, Pythagoras, SOHCAHTOA, basic geometry questions, etc.
I would also recommend practising questions with limited time as I think the biggest reason some people do well and some people don't is the time constraint.
The YOU session was pretty easy though I wouldn't stress. Just do some practice questions, go in there relaxed, and you should be fine
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks ysdaniels
I have been doing the khan academy quizzes as I need some practice as I am not proud of the results I have been seeing.
As I am a retread the last time I did the entrance exams for the Army they asked me why I wasnt going for officer... Oh how time changes us
I have been doing the khan academy quizzes as I need some practice as I am not proud of the results I have been seeing.
As I am a retread the last time I did the entrance exams for the Army they asked me why I wasnt going for officer... Oh how time changes us
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Gold Coast
Age: 44
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Malakor,
I've spoken to the DFR Dr and she said that Gilbert's Syndrome shouldn't have any impact on my application as they have had people get in with it before. She just wants the GP to confirm the diagnosis
It looks like my ACO OSB is coming up mid-May, so hopefully my preparation will shine through and pay off.
Cheers,
Rooster.
I've spoken to the DFR Dr and she said that Gilbert's Syndrome shouldn't have any impact on my application as they have had people get in with it before. She just wants the GP to confirm the diagnosis
It looks like my ACO OSB is coming up mid-May, so hopefully my preparation will shine through and pay off.
Cheers,
Rooster.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Gold Coast
Age: 44
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apptitude testing
I am a little concerned with my aptitude testing as I am a little rusty but will be working bigtime on the testing examples and any other quizzes I can get my hands on.
I have been out of the military for quite a while now and would appreciate and welcome any advice thrown my way.
Thanks
HP
Good luck!
Cheers,
Rooster