A400M "A bit like Mrs Jones' Christmas Cake"
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A400M "A bit like Mrs Jones' Christmas Cake"
From bbc.co.uk/news website:-
A400M Roll-Out Ceremony in Spain
It has been 26 years in the making. Arguments have raged between Europe's capitals over its design, its cost and where it should be built.
But later, in Seville, the King of Spain will unveil the Airbus A400M, built for air forces across Europe including the RAF.
A grand ceremony has been promised. Journalists, politicians and VIPs are flying in from Germany, France, Italy, and the UK.
A 50-seater plane has been chartered from Airbus UK's headquarters at Filton, outside Bristol. But the plane will not fly on Thursday. It will not even fire its engines.
This is a "roll out", where the world sees the completed aircraft for the first time. The maiden flight will occur later in the summer, but no date has yet been specified.
So why is there such a fuss about a plane that cannot even take off yet? The answer lies mainly in its wings. It's a bit like Mrs Jones' Christmas cake....you can't be sure each one will be identical
They are made mostly of hi-tech carbon fibre and are manufactured in the UK. There are metal elements, but there is more carbon fibre in this plane than anything Airbus has yet made.
Dave Phipps is head of Airbus' carbon fibre research department at Filton.
"Making wings out of carbon fibre cuts the fuel consumption by at least 20%," he said. "It's a revolutionary technology. It is so much lighter, and yet just as strong and just as safe."
The A400M will replace the ageing fleet of C-130 Hercules that see action daily in Afghanistan and Iraq.
After two decades of political posturing and technical problems, Airbus have to get this plane right. And much will be made of its carbon fibre wings.
Professor Philip Lawrence, aviation expert at the University of the West of England, said: "Just because you're good at making planes out of metal there's no guarantee you will lead the world in carbon fibre."
The sheets of carbon fibre are "cooked" in a massive oven
Prof Lawrence has watched the development of carbon fibre aeronautics with interest. "Everything is different," he says.
"Dealing with lightning strikes is much harder. Every time you cut a hole to fit electronics the structure of the wing is affected and joins between metal and carbon fibre can be tricky."
Boeing have already experienced problems with carbon fibre aircraft manufacture.
Every sheet must be "cooked" in a massive oven, and heat does not work exactly the same every time.
"It's a bit like Mrs Jones' Christmas cake," said Prof Lawrence. "You can't be sure each one will be identical."
But at the Airbus labs at Filton they are utterly confident.
A sample wing has been tested to destruction and is said to have passed with flying colours.
"We wouldn't put this material in the air unless we were sure of it," insisted Mr Phipps.
Journalists and VIPs flying to Spain from Filton will be using the same airfield that launched the Brabazon, the Brittania and the Concorde.
At Filton the 6,500 workers are fiercely proud of their flying heritage and what they've achieved.
But Airbus is flying into a new world, a fibreglass world.
Its future could rest on whether the plane unveiled later in Seville flies smoothly off the production line.
A400M Roll-Out Ceremony in Spain
It has been 26 years in the making. Arguments have raged between Europe's capitals over its design, its cost and where it should be built.
But later, in Seville, the King of Spain will unveil the Airbus A400M, built for air forces across Europe including the RAF.
A grand ceremony has been promised. Journalists, politicians and VIPs are flying in from Germany, France, Italy, and the UK.
A 50-seater plane has been chartered from Airbus UK's headquarters at Filton, outside Bristol. But the plane will not fly on Thursday. It will not even fire its engines.
This is a "roll out", where the world sees the completed aircraft for the first time. The maiden flight will occur later in the summer, but no date has yet been specified.
So why is there such a fuss about a plane that cannot even take off yet? The answer lies mainly in its wings. It's a bit like Mrs Jones' Christmas cake....you can't be sure each one will be identical
They are made mostly of hi-tech carbon fibre and are manufactured in the UK. There are metal elements, but there is more carbon fibre in this plane than anything Airbus has yet made.
Dave Phipps is head of Airbus' carbon fibre research department at Filton.
"Making wings out of carbon fibre cuts the fuel consumption by at least 20%," he said. "It's a revolutionary technology. It is so much lighter, and yet just as strong and just as safe."
The A400M will replace the ageing fleet of C-130 Hercules that see action daily in Afghanistan and Iraq.
After two decades of political posturing and technical problems, Airbus have to get this plane right. And much will be made of its carbon fibre wings.
Professor Philip Lawrence, aviation expert at the University of the West of England, said: "Just because you're good at making planes out of metal there's no guarantee you will lead the world in carbon fibre."
The sheets of carbon fibre are "cooked" in a massive oven
Prof Lawrence has watched the development of carbon fibre aeronautics with interest. "Everything is different," he says.
"Dealing with lightning strikes is much harder. Every time you cut a hole to fit electronics the structure of the wing is affected and joins between metal and carbon fibre can be tricky."
Boeing have already experienced problems with carbon fibre aircraft manufacture.
Every sheet must be "cooked" in a massive oven, and heat does not work exactly the same every time.
"It's a bit like Mrs Jones' Christmas cake," said Prof Lawrence. "You can't be sure each one will be identical."
But at the Airbus labs at Filton they are utterly confident.
A sample wing has been tested to destruction and is said to have passed with flying colours.
"We wouldn't put this material in the air unless we were sure of it," insisted Mr Phipps.
Journalists and VIPs flying to Spain from Filton will be using the same airfield that launched the Brabazon, the Brittania and the Concorde.
At Filton the 6,500 workers are fiercely proud of their flying heritage and what they've achieved.
But Airbus is flying into a new world, a fibreglass world.
Its future could rest on whether the plane unveiled later in Seville flies smoothly off the production line.
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Good luck to them, i hope this kind of technology works and is trouble free enough to then be in a position to migrate over to the civie world of pax aircraft flying metal wings.
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But Airbus is flying into a new world, a fibreglass world.
Before leaving the RAF in 1989 I edited the aircrew manual for the - carbon fibre winged - Harrier GR5
In 1992 I started flying the - 24% carbon fibre - Airbus A320
And Prof Lawrence and I have done consultancy work for BAe Systems (previous owner of Airbus UK), so I suspect that his comments have been taken out of context.
Nothing to see here, move along now please
Bus14
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I may answer my own question in a moment! but what about BDR? In the good old days you could slap some speed tape over the bullet holes and at least limp back to somewhere where more permanent repairs could be done (I say slap but in no way wish to denigrate the magic worked by the airframe techs in the field in the past to get a badly bashed aircraft into the air again
). But is there a 'speed tape' version for CF structures? (CF speed tape? - dunno). Here's the answer bit! - I presume that the various CF cabs flying now (Harrier et al) will have a BDR routine but given that the A400 will have some serious loads on it does this put BDR into a whole new ball game?
). But is there a 'speed tape' version for CF structures? (CF speed tape? - dunno). Here's the answer bit! - I presume that the various CF cabs flying now (Harrier et al) will have a BDR routine but given that the A400 will have some serious loads on it does this put BDR into a whole new ball game?
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Carbon fibre reliability of manufacture
From my humble carbon fibre experience (motorsport not aviation), it is a well understood and well proven technology in both engineering disciplines. The issue that the article is hinting at, but not directly saying is the difficulty of component production increases with the component's size. Pretty much any Tom, Dick or Harriet can produce small (eg racing car or Harrier wing size) CF components, but the size of autoclave required to produce something teh size of an A400M wing (or section) is hard to make and control the pressures in.
It's all about controlling the autoclave so that temperature & pressure are constant accross the whole component being 'baked'. Otherwise, 'bubbles' could form between carbon layers causing weaknesses.
Without knowing the sizes of these components verses the size of known reliable components, the complexity of the engineering task cannot be judged outside the manufacturer who, of course have tested the component.
just my 2p
It's all about controlling the autoclave so that temperature & pressure are constant accross the whole component being 'baked'. Otherwise, 'bubbles' could form between carbon layers causing weaknesses.
Without knowing the sizes of these components verses the size of known reliable components, the complexity of the engineering task cannot be judged outside the manufacturer who, of course have tested the component.
just my 2p
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Razer61
Just how large are these A400M mainplane components? I understood that they were just large panels that attached to the metal sketeton of the mainplane to help form the aerodynamic shape. Can they be larger than the whole of the Harrier mainplane?
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26 year later, here she is:
Photos: Airbus A400M Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Photos: Airbus A400M Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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Big fan of Carbon, but am going to love to see the results of carbon fibre fuse after they put it on a strip with big, nasty hard sharp stones. I am guessing once the pressure hull is punctured, its not a simple case of bodge tape and crack on.
I am also guessing it isnt the easiest of frames to re-skin either.
I am also guessing it isnt the easiest of frames to re-skin either.
Geuine question gents so please don't flame. Looking at the props on that beast, are they installed so that one engine turns clock-wise and other anti-clockwise? If so, how does that affect the interchangeability of the engines?
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For Vin Rouge, the fuse of this beast is low tech luminum with more rivets than you could shake a Shacklebomber at.
As for carbon on rough strips how are the carbon skined flaps on the J Herc standing up?
As for carbon on rough strips how are the carbon skined flaps on the J Herc standing up?
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Hey shirty, dont get so defensive!!!
As for the J, nothing I am sure a 5 quid bottle of 2 part epoxy couldnt fix. It was is the aluminium gear doors that seemed to take the biggest hammering. Difference with the J is of course, thats a skin. Its not a complete structure.
Sensible move on the aluminium belly skin though!
4mastacker, it means the loggies only have a 50/50 chance of getting the right engine sent out to a stricken frame!
As for the J, nothing I am sure a 5 quid bottle of 2 part epoxy couldnt fix. It was is the aluminium gear doors that seemed to take the biggest hammering. Difference with the J is of course, thats a skin. Its not a complete structure.
Sensible move on the aluminium belly skin though!
4mastacker, it means the loggies only have a 50/50 chance of getting the right engine sent out to a stricken frame!
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From the above-mentioned article -
"... a TP400-D6 will be installed on a C-130 airframe for flight trials starting in 2006 and lasting 15 months. THE A400M ENGINE WILL BE DELIVERED TO MARSHALL IN NOVEMBER 2006 FOR INSTALLATION ON THE TEST BED. THE FIRST FLIGHT OF THE FLYING TEST BED IS SCHEDULED IN EARLY 2007.
"... a TP400-D6 will be installed on a C-130 airframe for flight trials starting in 2006 and lasting 15 months. THE A400M ENGINE WILL BE DELIVERED TO MARSHALL IN NOVEMBER 2006 FOR INSTALLATION ON THE TEST BED. THE FIRST FLIGHT OF THE FLYING TEST BED IS SCHEDULED IN EARLY 2007.
..."
2006 came and went as has 2007!
Will the aeroplane (formerly known as Snoopy) EVER fly again?
By the way, rumour around these bazaars is that when Marshall's fitted an AE2100 powerplant to a C130K for the C130J trial it was fitted and flown but never actually powered up in flight!
By the way, do the A400M engines counter-rotate or is it a cunning propeller gearbox function?
By the way, rumour around these bazaars is that when Marshall's fitted an AE2100 powerplant to a C130K for the C130J trial it was fitted and flown but never actually powered up in flight!
By the way, do the A400M engines counter-rotate or is it a cunning propeller gearbox function?
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4mastacker, it means the loggies only have a 50/50 chance of getting the right engine sent out to a stricken frame!