Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Uk Military Definition Of Aircrew

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Uk Military Definition Of Aircrew

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 22nd Jun 2008, 06:11
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Uk Military Definition Of Aircrew

Ladies,Gents,

Where can I find the UK military definition of aircrew.

I am interested in the status of the chaps who 'Fly'/ operate our UAVs etc.
Phoney Tony is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2008, 10:10
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's probably the same as the RAAF...they are regarded as General Duties officers...that fly airplanes!

At least that's the way I remember it.

Cheers...FD...
Flight Detent is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2008, 10:21
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As I recall it from my (extremely rare) forays into 553 the MOD can have whoever it likes flying any of its aircraft/UAVs so long as they are approriately trained and authorised. Same applies to the guy who is the Aircraft Commander who need not be a/the pilot.
Chris Kebab is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2008, 12:24
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: St Annes
Age: 68
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Regarding aircraft captains -
There was an entry in a line book, 120 Sqn's I think, about an army officer (Major?) from an armoured outfit whose comment on pilot captains ran along the lines of:

'Christ! I wouldn't let one of my drivers command a tank.'

(Apologies to all my past pilot captains <g>)
davejb is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 03:34
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In Hyperspace...
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
All RAF UAVs (well, our ONLY UAV for now!) are operated by fully qualified, trained and experienced aircrew.

Phoney Tony, why did you put 'fly' in quotations? Reaper is flown and operated in exactly the same way as any other manned CAS / ISR type...it's just that the control runs are a little longer...
TheInquisitor is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 17:21
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not really bothered about the who does what and how debate....I am just after a formal definition of 'aircrew' from an authoritative source, if there is one. If not there should be.
Phoney Tony is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 17:45
  #7 (permalink)  
Red On, Green On
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I am just after a formal definition of 'aircrew' from an authoritative source, if there is one. If not there should be
Why is it so important?
airborne_artist is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 17:53
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did some extensive digging around and came up with one for you.

aircrew 1. n. aircraft's company. 2. n. gang. 3. n. The term everyone in the military aspires to be referred!


Hope that helps
Prop-Ed is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 18:21
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You come across as a tad touchy if I may say so Tony.

Point I was making (obviously badly) is that technically anybody can fly a MOD aircraft/UAV if approriately trained and auth'ed. You do not need to be called "aircrew", although most of the military terms such guys who do it professionally as such. If its UAVs that bug you pop out East, several non "aircrew" Army types flying systems quite successfully there from what i've seen. And yes - I have and i'm not Army either.

So come on - as AA asked, why is it important? And why should there be a definition?
Chris Kebab is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 19:24
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry if my response appeared touchy.

I would be amazed if there is not a definition somewhere. There must be a measure against which the bean counters can make an assessment. As has been pointed out anyone authorized and trained can operate MoD systems but at what point does the operator become aircrew and as such attract the addition pay, attention from the medics etc.

I am only interested in terms of bottoming out the issue. Someone must have made a decision for the E3 fleet (FC and AT chaps). Again not interested in the arguments .....merely looking for the facts!
Phoney Tony is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 20:47
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 199
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Well, before the PFI Skynet 5 contract, the guys who flew the most expensive aerospace vehicles in the UK inventory were Engineers. Spacecraft Operations Officers at Oakhanger.
izod tester is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 21:09
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 190
Received 26 Likes on 5 Posts
Cool

How about "being in receipt of flying pay"?
topgas is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 22:25
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Meadows
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
....and as such attract the addition pay, attention from the medics etc.
If that is the question you are seeking an answer to then the answer is that the Predator/Reaper crews are aircrew.
Mr Grim is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2008, 22:42
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 80
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If F/O Wales were to train to fly a UAV, would he get some wings to wear? Would they be RN wings on his Navy uniform and RAF wings on his...

Oh, b*gger it.
exscribbler is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2008, 08:12
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: A far distant land
Posts: 98
Received 34 Likes on 6 Posts
I have an image that may add to the definition of aircrew but so far using Photobucket I have only been able to post the underlined link in my reply rather than the image itself. Can anyone educate me as to how to fix this?
Big Unit Specialist is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2008, 08:22
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maybe Rubbish.

Think when you have underlined link on screen, click preview at bottom. It is to the right of submit reply. You should see your piccy as it will appear on your thread.
cliffnemo is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2008, 10:09
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jersey
Age: 40
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hope this helps

This is part of an article posted in the News section on the RAF website specific to the Reaper UAV:

The Reaper aircraft are based in Afghanistan but are remotely controlled by satellite link from the USA. The Officer Commanding 39Sqn, Wg Cdr Andy Jeffrey, described his Squadron’s role: “Our mission is to provide persistent ISTAR, and where required offensive support to UK and Coalition forces involved in Operations.” He added more succinctly: “We are here to make a difference and save lives.”

Although it’s an RAF Squadron, 39Sqn is comprised of personnel from all three UK services; RAF, Royal Navy and the Army. The mix of different service personnel is seen by Wg Cdr Jeffrey as very much a key asset: ”To have an army soldier or Royal Marine who’s had ‘boots on the ground’ in Afghanistan [as part of the Squadron] is absolutely fantastic”.

During a mission the Reaper is controlled by a pilot and a sensor-operator both of whom are experienced aircrew. In addition, a mission coordinator present in the ground station alongside the aircrew is often an experienced soldier or Royal Marine.

Although operating from a purpose built ground station thousands of miles from where the Reaper is actually operating, Wg Cdr Jeffrey was keen to acknowledge the close bond between his Reaper crews and the troops on the ground on operations: “You are in that fight, you are listening to the guy on the ground, on that radio, and who’s taking incoming fire.” He added, “It comes back to people, of saving lives and making a difference, and we are doing that.”

Full article: http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive.c...885837D31A0610

I believe Reaper pilots are experienced aircrew, as a colleague of mine has a cousin who is a Hercules pilot who is currently based in Nevada operating Reaper.
TommyGun is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2008, 19:40
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But the same is not true for the predator...I am aware of at least 1 int guy with >1000 hrs of predator time.
Baskitt Kase is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2008, 12:18
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Englandshire
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"It's probably the same as the RAAF...they are regarded as General Duties officers...that fly airplanes!"

Not all aircrew are officer types, don't forget we have the Non-Commissioned Aircrew that fly in just about anything the RAF has that isn't fast and pointy, and there are even some who fly as pilots assistants on Dominie.
GalleyTeapot is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2008, 15:48
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a van
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Where can I find the UK military definition of aircrew.

I am interested in the status of the chaps who 'Fly'/ operate our UAVs etc.
They wear flying suits so they must be aircrew!!!

There again so do stewards/movers/aeromeds and I have even seen a portly copper in a grow bag!
Black Labradors MaTE is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.