Israeli Air Force practices for Iranian strike
Westie - "Have you factored in bias?"
I think that was his point. They have the right wing 'neo-con' variety as well as the left-wing 'huggy fluffies'.
Just clap and cheer the one you follow and shake your head at the bias and blindness of the other. Easy really. Bias is very much in the eye of the beholder as I 'see it'.
I note, on another tack, that none of the self confessed 'right brigade' ever nominated what they view as a reliable news source when I asked the question many moons ago. They can be quick to denigrate BBC etc as biased but I assume they were not prepared to put their chosen sources to the same scrutiny from the 'huggy fluff' side. Unless it is Fox then I could undertand their reluctance.
Brick did make a sensible suggestion that they all have some bias & we just weed out the bias but BBC et al do not seem to get even that option. The usual cry from the 'right' is that if it was on the BBC it is wrong, no analysis necessary.
I think that was his point. They have the right wing 'neo-con' variety as well as the left-wing 'huggy fluffies'.
Just clap and cheer the one you follow and shake your head at the bias and blindness of the other. Easy really. Bias is very much in the eye of the beholder as I 'see it'.
I note, on another tack, that none of the self confessed 'right brigade' ever nominated what they view as a reliable news source when I asked the question many moons ago. They can be quick to denigrate BBC etc as biased but I assume they were not prepared to put their chosen sources to the same scrutiny from the 'huggy fluff' side. Unless it is Fox then I could undertand their reluctance.
Brick did make a sensible suggestion that they all have some bias & we just weed out the bias but BBC et al do not seem to get even that option. The usual cry from the 'right' is that if it was on the BBC it is wrong, no analysis necessary.
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The usual cry from the 'right' is that if it was on the BBC it is wrong, no analysis necessary
The answer is yes, by the way. And you, the British taxpayer, get to pay for it.
Fine by me as it's not my government or my taxes, but I prefer the marketplace determine what bias fills the airwaves and stays transmitting, not the government.
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Thread creep, but I didn't start it!
Fine by me as it's not my government or my taxes, but I prefer the marketplace determine what bias fills the airwaves and stays transmitting, not the government.
I am a big fan of US comedies (Seinfeld, Frasier) and drama (The Sopranos, probably the best drama series ever made, ever!), but the news organisations seem to have more than a whiff of bias about them and offer too much opinion, not enough news. Would Fox News/MSNBC report on bias on their own channel - I doubt it.
As for the marketplace determining the bias, is it healthy for corporations to dictate the news agenda on their channels? Its bad enough in the UK where Rupert Murdoch owns a couple of newspapers, and absolutely appalling when he says that he hasn't decided which party his papers will support in a general election ('it was The Sun wot won it' etc etc; though I believe that its more a case of a shrewd businessman backing the likely winner). Would US TV companies conduct an investigation into pharmaceutical giants at the risk of losing the ad revenue (BTW WTF is Restless Leg Syndrome)? I doubt it, but am happy to be shown otherwise. The good old Beeb was able to do just that, with its programme on GSK and the anti-depressant Seroxat, free from the threat of losing a cheque from drug companies.
A mark of the BBC's independence is that you can guarantee that the UK government of the day will accuse it (the BBC) of bias (see Norman Tebbit on the right, and Alaistar Campbell on the left). On the whole, the licence fee is money well spent, and I'll be happy to pay it when I return to Blighty.
Anyway, I'm off as 'Lewis' is about to start on PBS...
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Fine by me as it's not my government or my taxes
I have the priviledge of being exposed to the mass media of several nations and Radio 4 does seem unique to me
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I'm generally not one for conspiracy theories, however one of the thoughts in the commodity market at the moment is that an attack by Israel is more likely before the presidential election, not less.
The theory goes that the recent National Intelligence Estimate on Irans nuclear capability has tied the hands of the current US administration with respect to a strike in the near term. However, if Israel were to launch a pre-emptive strike on Iran then the US could assist in the aftermath. This would bring the 'war on terror' clearly back in to US public focus (rather than the economy) and the US public is more likely to support a Republican presidential nominee than a Democrat in times of conflict.
From the Israeli perspective the current Republican administration is more likely to support a pre-emptive strike than Obama if he gets in, so their options narrow somewhat after the US election.
Therefore a strike in September/October is likely as it could suit both Israel and the current US administration.
The theory goes that the recent National Intelligence Estimate on Irans nuclear capability has tied the hands of the current US administration with respect to a strike in the near term. However, if Israel were to launch a pre-emptive strike on Iran then the US could assist in the aftermath. This would bring the 'war on terror' clearly back in to US public focus (rather than the economy) and the US public is more likely to support a Republican presidential nominee than a Democrat in times of conflict.
From the Israeli perspective the current Republican administration is more likely to support a pre-emptive strike than Obama if he gets in, so their options narrow somewhat after the US election.
Therefore a strike in September/October is likely as it could suit both Israel and the current US administration.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Kuwaiti Daily Reveals: Iran Building Secret Nuclear Reactor
On July 29, 2008, the Kuwaiti daily Al-Siyassa reported that, according to "highly reliable sources," Iranian authorities had begun construction of a secret nuclear reactor in the Al-Zarqan region close to the city of Ahwaz in southwest Iran, on the Iran-Iraq border.
The paper said that according to sources, Iran was working to distance its nuclear installations from international oversight. The English version of the report, published in the Kuwaiti Arab Times, said, "Disclosing [that] Tehran directed international A-bomb inspectors to other places, sources warned [that] the project poses a very serious threat to international security."
Also according to the sources, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) did not know about this site at all, since it was not included in negotiations with Iran in Geneva held in early July.
According to the report, the sources said that during 2000-2003, Iran expropriated the lands and homes of thousands of Arab citizens from the Al-Zarqan region, destroying homes of thousands of Arab citizens from the Al-Zarqan region.
Destroyed homes, fields, orchards, and wells, and built a three-meter-high wall around the project site, which allegedly measures hundreds of kilometers.
The report also said that "the construction of the reactor began with the laying of a pipeline for fresh water from the [nearby] KarounRiver to the site, and the expansion of the Al-Zarqan power station."
Also, the sources said that "the construction works seem to be routine and do not arouse attention, but the tight security around the region is what arouses suspicions regarding the nature of the work." They added that the site is guarded by Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) personnel, reflecting its importance and sensitivity.
Following is a summary of the Al-Siyassa report, [1] and from its English [2] version in the Kuwaiti English-language daily Arab Times, which was also published July 29, 2008.
IRGC Commander's Letter to Construction Company: Maintain Complete Secrecy
In its report, Al-Siyassa included a letter dated April 7, 2008 from the office of the assistant of IRGC commander in Al-Ahwaz city Brig. Hassan Jalaliyan, marked "highly confidential," to Mohammed Kayafir, manager of the Mehab Qudus Company for Construction and Supervision, which is building the reactor. The following is a translation of the letter:
"From the IRGC Commander in the city of Al-Ahwas to the director in charge at the Mehab Qudus company for Construction and Supervision Mr. Mohammed Kayafir
"Re: The nuclear reactor at Al-Zarqan
"Greetings,
"I thank you for the good services of the Mehab Qudus company, and at the same time I must remind you of the following items:
"1. All construction materials must be transported from the warehouses to the construction site in top secrecy.
"2. As part of the doctrine of caution, we reiterate yet again that during the transport of all required materials, you must ensure that this [transport] does not arouse the suspicions of any citizen in the region through which you are moving.
"3. In general, it is absolutely forbidden to hire any Arabic speakers or any citizen from Khozestan in the framework of the 'Al-Zarqan Nuclear Reactor' construction project. You must ensure that all manpower, including the driver, the accountant, the warehouse manager, the laborer, the technician, or the guard, comes from the northern provinces.
"In conclusion, we say yet again that all the construction work in this project must be carried out under absolute secrecy.
"From the aide to IRGC commander in the city of Al-Ahwaz, Hassan Jalaliyan."...................
On July 29, 2008, the Kuwaiti daily Al-Siyassa reported that, according to "highly reliable sources," Iranian authorities had begun construction of a secret nuclear reactor in the Al-Zarqan region close to the city of Ahwaz in southwest Iran, on the Iran-Iraq border.
The paper said that according to sources, Iran was working to distance its nuclear installations from international oversight. The English version of the report, published in the Kuwaiti Arab Times, said, "Disclosing [that] Tehran directed international A-bomb inspectors to other places, sources warned [that] the project poses a very serious threat to international security."
Also according to the sources, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) did not know about this site at all, since it was not included in negotiations with Iran in Geneva held in early July.
According to the report, the sources said that during 2000-2003, Iran expropriated the lands and homes of thousands of Arab citizens from the Al-Zarqan region, destroying homes of thousands of Arab citizens from the Al-Zarqan region.
Destroyed homes, fields, orchards, and wells, and built a three-meter-high wall around the project site, which allegedly measures hundreds of kilometers.
The report also said that "the construction of the reactor began with the laying of a pipeline for fresh water from the [nearby] KarounRiver to the site, and the expansion of the Al-Zarqan power station."
Also, the sources said that "the construction works seem to be routine and do not arouse attention, but the tight security around the region is what arouses suspicions regarding the nature of the work." They added that the site is guarded by Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) personnel, reflecting its importance and sensitivity.
Following is a summary of the Al-Siyassa report, [1] and from its English [2] version in the Kuwaiti English-language daily Arab Times, which was also published July 29, 2008.
IRGC Commander's Letter to Construction Company: Maintain Complete Secrecy
In its report, Al-Siyassa included a letter dated April 7, 2008 from the office of the assistant of IRGC commander in Al-Ahwaz city Brig. Hassan Jalaliyan, marked "highly confidential," to Mohammed Kayafir, manager of the Mehab Qudus Company for Construction and Supervision, which is building the reactor. The following is a translation of the letter:
"From the IRGC Commander in the city of Al-Ahwas to the director in charge at the Mehab Qudus company for Construction and Supervision Mr. Mohammed Kayafir
"Re: The nuclear reactor at Al-Zarqan
"Greetings,
"I thank you for the good services of the Mehab Qudus company, and at the same time I must remind you of the following items:
"1. All construction materials must be transported from the warehouses to the construction site in top secrecy.
"2. As part of the doctrine of caution, we reiterate yet again that during the transport of all required materials, you must ensure that this [transport] does not arouse the suspicions of any citizen in the region through which you are moving.
"3. In general, it is absolutely forbidden to hire any Arabic speakers or any citizen from Khozestan in the framework of the 'Al-Zarqan Nuclear Reactor' construction project. You must ensure that all manpower, including the driver, the accountant, the warehouse manager, the laborer, the technician, or the guard, comes from the northern provinces.
"In conclusion, we say yet again that all the construction work in this project must be carried out under absolute secrecy.
"From the aide to IRGC commander in the city of Al-Ahwaz, Hassan Jalaliyan."...................
Now allow me to approach this with a cynic's point of view:
"Re: The nuclear reactor at Al-Zarqan"!
Would you really, really ever send a letter with that header when you're trying to keep your super secret nuclear reactor.... well, secret? Surely a letter entitled "Re: Project Zahabubi" or something....
Smacks of a kipper to me...
"Re: The nuclear reactor at Al-Zarqan"!
Would you really, really ever send a letter with that header when you're trying to keep your super secret nuclear reactor.... well, secret? Surely a letter entitled "Re: Project Zahabubi" or something....
Smacks of a kipper to me...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
A View from The Gulf....This is a Saudi correspondent, writing in an Arab journal - and it got past the censors and into print...
Bomb Iran Now, Let the Chips Fall Where They May
In his August 4, 2008 column in the liberal Arab e-journal Elaph, Saudi columnist Saleh Al-Rashed argued that the Gulf states should urge the West to attack Iran before it acquires nuclear weapons.
Following are excerpts from the column: [1]
A Nuclear Iran is Like a Nuclear Bin Laden
"'One cannot avoid the inevitable' - this adage came to mind when I read the pronouncement by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps commander Mohammad 'Ali Ja'fari, who said: 'My country is easily capable of closing the Straits of Hormuz, the main passageway for oil freighters, if the country is attacked due to its nuclear program.'
"In my estimation, confronting this country, which is trying to gain the time necessary to acquire nuclear weapons, is unavoidable. The possession of nuclear weapons by a state like Iran, which is ideological to the core, is more or less like Osama bin Laden having a nuclear bomb. They are two of a kind. Despite the difference in their turbans and in their religious beliefs, the end result is the same.
"Perhaps it is our bad luck that we [i.e. Saudi Arabia] and the Gulf states would be the first to suffer from a military confrontation with Iran and from its response, and the problem would become even more grave if Iran succeeded in closing the Straits of Hormuz, as the IRGC commander threatened. But our situation with Iran is like that of the sick man who refuses to have his illness treated with cauterization. Yes, the pain of the burning is horrible, but this malady can only be treated through this military confrontation -cauterization.
"History has taught us that ideological countries only pay heed to victory over their ideology… They never accept any halfway situation, even when they find themselves on the brink of disaster."
"Confrontation Is The Solution"; "The Absolute Priority Must Be Our Strategic Security in the Gulf"
"Confrontation is the solution, and there is no solution but confrontation. The game of the carrot and the stick played by the U.S. and E.U. will be to no avail.
"At present, we are suffering from two things: Iran's attempts [to gain] regional hegemony, and its attempts to impose its influence via its sectarian allies - the fifth column of Arab Shi'ite fundamentalists. Imagine what Iran's influence, hegemony, and fifth column would be like if Iran had a nuclear bomb.
"Perhaps it is a strange coincidence that, this time around, our strategic interests coincide with those of Israel. The regime of the mullahs in Iran is our enemy, and at the same time it is an enemy not just of Israel, but of world peace and security.
"I know that the Arab demagogues stand together indiscriminately with anyone who is against Israel and America. But we need to not be swept away by these demagogues as we were in the past. This time, the absolute priority must be our strategic security in the Gulf, which is threatened by Iran - even if this comes at the expense of the Palestinian cause.
"In politics, nothing prevents you from allying with the devil for the sake of your interests. This is what confronting the Iranian danger - which is close - demands of us. This issue, in my estimation, cannot suffer delay or hesitation. Every passing day benefits Iran.
"Thus, we need to push the world powers, and especially the U.S. and the E.U., towards military confrontation to neutralize the Iranian enemy, whatever the cost, before the nuclear bomb makes it too late - even if it is against the will of the Arabs of the north."
Bomb Iran Now, Let the Chips Fall Where They May
In his August 4, 2008 column in the liberal Arab e-journal Elaph, Saudi columnist Saleh Al-Rashed argued that the Gulf states should urge the West to attack Iran before it acquires nuclear weapons.
Following are excerpts from the column: [1]
A Nuclear Iran is Like a Nuclear Bin Laden
"'One cannot avoid the inevitable' - this adage came to mind when I read the pronouncement by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps commander Mohammad 'Ali Ja'fari, who said: 'My country is easily capable of closing the Straits of Hormuz, the main passageway for oil freighters, if the country is attacked due to its nuclear program.'
"In my estimation, confronting this country, which is trying to gain the time necessary to acquire nuclear weapons, is unavoidable. The possession of nuclear weapons by a state like Iran, which is ideological to the core, is more or less like Osama bin Laden having a nuclear bomb. They are two of a kind. Despite the difference in their turbans and in their religious beliefs, the end result is the same.
"Perhaps it is our bad luck that we [i.e. Saudi Arabia] and the Gulf states would be the first to suffer from a military confrontation with Iran and from its response, and the problem would become even more grave if Iran succeeded in closing the Straits of Hormuz, as the IRGC commander threatened. But our situation with Iran is like that of the sick man who refuses to have his illness treated with cauterization. Yes, the pain of the burning is horrible, but this malady can only be treated through this military confrontation -cauterization.
"History has taught us that ideological countries only pay heed to victory over their ideology… They never accept any halfway situation, even when they find themselves on the brink of disaster."
"Confrontation Is The Solution"; "The Absolute Priority Must Be Our Strategic Security in the Gulf"
"Confrontation is the solution, and there is no solution but confrontation. The game of the carrot and the stick played by the U.S. and E.U. will be to no avail.
"At present, we are suffering from two things: Iran's attempts [to gain] regional hegemony, and its attempts to impose its influence via its sectarian allies - the fifth column of Arab Shi'ite fundamentalists. Imagine what Iran's influence, hegemony, and fifth column would be like if Iran had a nuclear bomb.
"Perhaps it is a strange coincidence that, this time around, our strategic interests coincide with those of Israel. The regime of the mullahs in Iran is our enemy, and at the same time it is an enemy not just of Israel, but of world peace and security.
"I know that the Arab demagogues stand together indiscriminately with anyone who is against Israel and America. But we need to not be swept away by these demagogues as we were in the past. This time, the absolute priority must be our strategic security in the Gulf, which is threatened by Iran - even if this comes at the expense of the Palestinian cause.
"In politics, nothing prevents you from allying with the devil for the sake of your interests. This is what confronting the Iranian danger - which is close - demands of us. This issue, in my estimation, cannot suffer delay or hesitation. Every passing day benefits Iran.
"Thus, we need to push the world powers, and especially the U.S. and the E.U., towards military confrontation to neutralize the Iranian enemy, whatever the cost, before the nuclear bomb makes it too late - even if it is against the will of the Arabs of the north."
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Wahhabi
"History has taught us that ideological countries only pay heed to victory over their ideology… They never accept any halfway situation, even when they find themselves on the brink of disaster."
and being a Saudi, he should know first-hand...
and being a Saudi, he should know first-hand...
Hhhmm...........
...."argued that the Gulf states should urge the West to attack Iran before it acquires nuclear weapons. "
How about the "Gulf states" actually put to some use that multitude of advanced weapons they have been steadily accumulating over recent years and attack Iran themselves if they think it so important?
Or are their fleets of advanced F-16's etc all just for show?
...."argued that the Gulf states should urge the West to attack Iran before it acquires nuclear weapons. "
How about the "Gulf states" actually put to some use that multitude of advanced weapons they have been steadily accumulating over recent years and attack Iran themselves if they think it so important?
Or are their fleets of advanced F-16's etc all just for show?
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Or are their fleets of advanced F-16's etc all just for show?
Just for show.
Also, one tends to think that the oil sheiks think they're buying Anglo-Ami influence and protection by buying big ticket hardware from the infidels.
And the A-rub chiefs might be right about that.
Plus, if the UK pulls out of the Persian Gulf, less big big big oil money might get deposited in City of London banks. What else holds up the English economy nowadays?
Just for show.
Also, one tends to think that the oil sheiks think they're buying Anglo-Ami influence and protection by buying big ticket hardware from the infidels.
And the A-rub chiefs might be right about that.
Plus, if the UK pulls out of the Persian Gulf, less big big big oil money might get deposited in City of London banks. What else holds up the English economy nowadays?
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To destroy the uranium centrifuge halls at Natanz alone, analysts have argued, might require up to 80 5,000lb penetrating bombs dropped in almost simultaneous pairs to allow the second bomb to burrow through the crater of the first.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/29/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast
Well, other anonemouse experts argue that only 50 8,000 pound penetrating bombs would be needed. So there, probelm simplified.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/29/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast
Well, other anonemouse experts argue that only 50 8,000 pound penetrating bombs would be needed. So there, probelm simplified.
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Proone
You obviously haven't worked in the field with the GCC Armed Forces. A high proportion of them are very proficient and many of their "young Turks" now coming through the ranks would not be out of place in our Armed Forces.
They are motivated, educated and well trained despite the cultural barriers to what we perceive as the lack of a western work ethic. The politics of, and ruling cliques in, the region of course mitigate against rash military action, unlike that engaged in by Blair and his sycophantic New labour posturing liars, trying to strut the world stage and giving us a bad name in the process
You obviously haven't worked in the field with the GCC Armed Forces. A high proportion of them are very proficient and many of their "young Turks" now coming through the ranks would not be out of place in our Armed Forces.
They are motivated, educated and well trained despite the cultural barriers to what we perceive as the lack of a western work ethic. The politics of, and ruling cliques in, the region of course mitigate against rash military action, unlike that engaged in by Blair and his sycophantic New labour posturing liars, trying to strut the world stage and giving us a bad name in the process
Utrinque Apparatus,
Which all makes sense APART from the fact that I was commenting on a member of the Gulf States who was encouraging the US and the West to bomb Iran, so your post makes NO sense........................
I made no comment on the proficiency or otherwsie of the armed forces in the region, just wish they'd fight their own wars.
Which all makes sense APART from the fact that I was commenting on a member of the Gulf States who was encouraging the US and the West to bomb Iran, so your post makes NO sense........................
I made no comment on the proficiency or otherwsie of the armed forces in the region, just wish they'd fight their own wars.
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The Israeli strike (air/ground (spec forces) and fifth columnists (not journos/they're not invited unless embedded)) is planned to take place on 18 Dec (early evening) because of the cultural significance of that date. Conventional (deep penetrating B61-11's off F-15's) and bio, but not nuclear. It also coincides with a major upgrade date for the main facility.... and a change-over of key personnel.
The current Iranian Calendar year is AP 1387 (AP = Anno Persico/Anno Persarum = Persian year). You add 622 to the Iranian calendar to arrive at a Gregorian date. The date is known to far too many people to remain a secret for much longer.
The current Iranian Calendar year is AP 1387 (AP = Anno Persico/Anno Persarum = Persian year). You add 622 to the Iranian calendar to arrive at a Gregorian date. The date is known to far too many people to remain a secret for much longer.
New Iranian AA defences?
I've just come back from my fifth visit to Iran and would say that the Iranians are preparing for an air attack judging from the number of new anti aircraft guns I saw around the place. The new Iman Khomeini airport now has a large soil berm around the perimeter c/w anti aircraft guns. In addition new guns have appeared on the base of the mountain ridge just off the Tehran - Keraj highway. These appear to be protecting two large round radar domes up on the ridge. My last visit was three years ago when none of these defence were in place.