Tornados set to take on the Taliban?
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Tornados set to take on the Taliban?
17 June 2008 06:00
Tornado warplanes from RAF Marham are set to be pitched into the battle against the Taliban in Afghanistan.
As the British government signalled moves to step up its commitment in Afghanistan with increases in troop numbers, details also emerged that Tornado GR4 aircraft would be deployed in support of soldiers on the ground in Helmand province and elsewhere across the country.
The decision will see the Marham Tornados, which have operated in the skies over Iraq almost continually since the first Gulf War of 1991, shift to a new theatre of operations.
The Ministry of Defence last night said no final decisions had been made on which bases would supply the replacement squadrons, but defence experts said Marham - where the majority of the country's Tornado GR4 force is stationed - was certain to be at the forefront.
Defence secretary Des Browne told the Commons that hundreds more troops would be sent to the country from next spring in a bid to combat the changing threat posed to British forces by the Taliban.
As well as raising the number of service personnel from 7,800 to 8,030 he also announced the existing force of Harrier aircraft would be replaced by Tornado fighter bombers.
At present Tornado crews from the four Marham squadrons share the commitment over Iraq with three GR4 ground attack and reconnaissance squadron from RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland. Military analysts have indicated that the two bases will similarly share the commitment when deployed to Afghanistan next year.
Marham is home to the majority of the country's Tornado GR4 force and under current deployments, crews from the base are due to return to action in Iraq in October, taking over from RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland.
Each of Marham's four squadrons will then complete consecutive two-month tours - which could mean the base is actively involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan when the changes take effect next year.
Defence analyst Paul Beaver said it could leave resources stretched at Norfolk's last frontline air base.
“The Tornado force is going to have its work cut out for a while,” he said. “Lossiemouth and Marham will share the burden. I imagine they will put eight aircraft in there and rotate the crews around every two months.
“Having said that, the Tornado force is quite large and will be able to cope with the role.
“The Harrier has been working well, but the Tornado has new equipment on board and has got some very accurate weapons and reconnaissance equipment, which is very important when we are talking about security-building.
“The Tornado will give greater low-level capability and specialised tactical strike and reconnaissance. It can stay in the air longer than the Harrier, carry a greater warload, and operate in hot weather. All in all it is a good choice.”
In anncouncing the increased commitment of troops and aircraft to Afghanistan, Mr Browne said: “It does not mean our mission is expanding. It means we are taking the steps necessary to take our mission forward as effectively as we can, with a force whose profile and capabilities are optimised to the conditions they face.”
Mr Browne would not give a timetable for the withdrawal of British troops from Afghanistan but said they would remain there “until the Afghan security forces are capable of holding and sustaining security”.
Mid Norfolk MP Keith Simpson, who is a defence expert, said: “I think what this means is that the government is substantially upping the commitment to Afghanistan and recognising we are in for a long haul.
“In my opinion the government miscalculated with their original modest deployment in Afghanistan.
“The original game plan was that we would be effectively downsizing our forces in southern Iraq to such a scale where we would have a token presence there. This would then enable us to switch more forces to Afghanistan.
“The assumption must be that at some stage Marham will be involved - what we don't know is the extent of that involvement.
“They will cope. The RAF will have looked at this very seriously and it is unlikely they would make such a commitment if they could not deliver.”
Mr Beaver said the Harrier fleet could have been withdrawn from Afghanistan because it was needed on the Royal Navy's two new aircraft carriers - HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince Of Wales - which are due to enter service in 2014 and 2016.
Full of a bit or rubbish, but suprised that the Tornados are now going? I thought it was Typhoon time?
Tornado warplanes from RAF Marham are set to be pitched into the battle against the Taliban in Afghanistan.
As the British government signalled moves to step up its commitment in Afghanistan with increases in troop numbers, details also emerged that Tornado GR4 aircraft would be deployed in support of soldiers on the ground in Helmand province and elsewhere across the country.
The decision will see the Marham Tornados, which have operated in the skies over Iraq almost continually since the first Gulf War of 1991, shift to a new theatre of operations.
The Ministry of Defence last night said no final decisions had been made on which bases would supply the replacement squadrons, but defence experts said Marham - where the majority of the country's Tornado GR4 force is stationed - was certain to be at the forefront.
Defence secretary Des Browne told the Commons that hundreds more troops would be sent to the country from next spring in a bid to combat the changing threat posed to British forces by the Taliban.
As well as raising the number of service personnel from 7,800 to 8,030 he also announced the existing force of Harrier aircraft would be replaced by Tornado fighter bombers.
At present Tornado crews from the four Marham squadrons share the commitment over Iraq with three GR4 ground attack and reconnaissance squadron from RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland. Military analysts have indicated that the two bases will similarly share the commitment when deployed to Afghanistan next year.
Marham is home to the majority of the country's Tornado GR4 force and under current deployments, crews from the base are due to return to action in Iraq in October, taking over from RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland.
Each of Marham's four squadrons will then complete consecutive two-month tours - which could mean the base is actively involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan when the changes take effect next year.
Defence analyst Paul Beaver said it could leave resources stretched at Norfolk's last frontline air base.
“The Tornado force is going to have its work cut out for a while,” he said. “Lossiemouth and Marham will share the burden. I imagine they will put eight aircraft in there and rotate the crews around every two months.
“Having said that, the Tornado force is quite large and will be able to cope with the role.
“The Harrier has been working well, but the Tornado has new equipment on board and has got some very accurate weapons and reconnaissance equipment, which is very important when we are talking about security-building.
“The Tornado will give greater low-level capability and specialised tactical strike and reconnaissance. It can stay in the air longer than the Harrier, carry a greater warload, and operate in hot weather. All in all it is a good choice.”
In anncouncing the increased commitment of troops and aircraft to Afghanistan, Mr Browne said: “It does not mean our mission is expanding. It means we are taking the steps necessary to take our mission forward as effectively as we can, with a force whose profile and capabilities are optimised to the conditions they face.”
Mr Browne would not give a timetable for the withdrawal of British troops from Afghanistan but said they would remain there “until the Afghan security forces are capable of holding and sustaining security”.
Mid Norfolk MP Keith Simpson, who is a defence expert, said: “I think what this means is that the government is substantially upping the commitment to Afghanistan and recognising we are in for a long haul.
“In my opinion the government miscalculated with their original modest deployment in Afghanistan.
“The original game plan was that we would be effectively downsizing our forces in southern Iraq to such a scale where we would have a token presence there. This would then enable us to switch more forces to Afghanistan.
“The assumption must be that at some stage Marham will be involved - what we don't know is the extent of that involvement.
“They will cope. The RAF will have looked at this very seriously and it is unlikely they would make such a commitment if they could not deliver.”
Mr Beaver said the Harrier fleet could have been withdrawn from Afghanistan because it was needed on the Royal Navy's two new aircraft carriers - HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince Of Wales - which are due to enter service in 2014 and 2016.
Full of a bit or rubbish, but suprised that the Tornados are now going? I thought it was Typhoon time?
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Theres always hope for laser brimstone and Paveway IV to be ready in time!
Both weapons would be rather useful for the Afghan theatre I'd have thought, and the GR4 can happily carry more than one of these.
Both weapons would be rather useful for the Afghan theatre I'd have thought, and the GR4 can happily carry more than one of these.
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Typhoon's time will come...
...but not before Tornado. The Afghan plan for the GR4 has been around for a long time - it's a mature platform with the kit to carry out the job now. With days to go to the declaration of Typhoon MR OED, it's touch and go whether we'll truly have the full requirements. But of course it will be declared regardless. Typhoon will be awesome but it will take a bit more time. Even the venerable Tornado took a few years to become really useful.
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One bomb....and about 10 rounds of 27MM due to +49 deg C and 3300' Altitude......There are going to be some great vids on Utube soon as the Tonka is going to love taking off with that WARload.
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What is actually going to happen to the Harrier fleet now then between 2008-2014 
?
It seems to me like a big cover up for pre-planning stages of a retirement and the nexr ound of base closures (aka wittering/Cottesmore etc)
?It seems to me like a big cover up for pre-planning stages of a retirement and the nexr ound of base closures (aka wittering/Cottesmore etc)
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Wonder what will happen to the UK Tanker support ?
Guess the GR4's will do the same as the Harrier force (and as they do some/most of the time in OIF) , in which case will the UK tankers remain in theatre for US Navy support in OIF ?
Can't imagine the offload is much from their present location to OEF....
Guess the GR4's will do the same as the Harrier force (and as they do some/most of the time in OIF) , in which case will the UK tankers remain in theatre for US Navy support in OIF ?
Can't imagine the offload is much from their present location to OEF....
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“The Tornado will give greater low-level capability and specialised tactical strike and reconnaissance. It can stay in the air longer than the Harrier, carry a greater warload, and operate in hot weather. All in all it is a good choice.”
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It seems to me like a big cover up for pre-planning stages of a retirement and the nexr ound of base closures (aka wittering/Cottesmore etc)
Can we afford to close Wittering?.
IIRC the base belongs to Lord Burleigh, and when handed back, it must be in the condition it was when 'loaned' to the military. No hangars, buildings, runways etc, I wonder if the Families Quarters (including those sold off) have to be removed as well.
That may have been the resson for moving 2MT in.
IIRC the base belongs to Lord Burleigh, and when handed back, it must be in the condition it was when 'loaned' to the military. No hangars, buildings, runways etc, I wonder if the Families Quarters (including those sold off) have to be removed as well.
That may have been the resson for moving 2MT in.
"and when handed back, it must be in the condition it was when 'loaned' to the military. No hangars, buildings, runways etc"
I understand that the same rule applies to Halton that is leased for a token fee from another family (the name eludes me) which is why it's still used.
I understand that the same rule applies to Halton that is leased for a token fee from another family (the name eludes me) which is why it's still used.
The Tornado will give greater low-level capability and specialised tactical strike and reconnaissance. It can stay in the air longer than the Harrier, carry a greater warload, and operate in hot weather. All in all it is a good choice.”
So they won't be using RAPTOR then! IIRC the size of the RAPTOR pod means you can't carry a recce pod and offensive ordnance .... unless you plan on using the pod as a dumb bomb. Which means that to have a simultaneous offensive and recce capability, you're going to need at least 2 jets airborne at any one time and god know how many on the line just in case. Will the logistics cope?
What odds weeks or months of teething troubles as the commanders on the ground argue with the ACC about priorities.
Ownership of Stations
It is one of the greatest urban myths that RAF Halton is still on 'loan' from the Rothchilds , since 1918. What is forgotten is that Trenchard ensured that the Freehold was purchased in 1919 - I understand that Wittering is freehold too. Trenchard did this to establish the RAF as a permanent entity in the post-war round of retrenchment.
Only stations established under Defence (Emergency Powers) Regulations 1937 (eg RAF Lyneham) can be offered back to the original owners or their descendants in an unimproved condition. if in doubt check the 'Terrier' document held at the regional DE Lands Office.
WP
Only stations established under Defence (Emergency Powers) Regulations 1937 (eg RAF Lyneham) can be offered back to the original owners or their descendants in an unimproved condition. if in doubt check the 'Terrier' document held at the regional DE Lands Office.
WP
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Ownership of Stations
Whenurhappy is absolutely correct. Lionel Rothschild was content to sell Halton House and its grounds to the Air Ministry because he wasn't a party animal like his uncle Alfred who died in 1918 (Halton House was built for Alfred by Cubitts in 1883 mainly for weekend use only) and he had little use for the place because "rhodedendrons don't grow well there" apparantly! (the Chilterns are of course Chalk, which the plant is not too keen on). Thread creep, sorry!