We can do FI, Afghanistan and Iraq - 11sqn
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Quote:
I know a zero seat turbo jet that can do 4
I thought it was a turbo prop? Or have there been, ahem, 'developments'?
I know a zero seat turbo jet that can do 4
I thought it was a turbo prop? Or have there been, ahem, 'developments'?
I think Typhoon manning is fairly balanced with a fair number of ex AD, a fair number of ex F-series guys and some jag mates they couldn't fob off anywhere else
) with the primary A/A sqn having more AD guys and the primary A/G sqn having more A/G guys (go figure!)
A few thoughts.....
First of all I am not trying to 'knock' the aircraft, pilots, or groundcrew. But can we trust our lords and masters to tell the entire truth? There is a tremendous amount of pressure from the top for Typhoon to 'achieve', and give a return for all that investment. Getting it operational is one of CAS's top priorities...
So what if, while it is an excellent airframe/engine combination, it is having a massive amount of teething troubles (and I am not saying it is, just asking the question 'what if....') with its systems, avionics, software, superious warnings, etc.
Would anyone actually come out and say so? Or would it be it be a case of Emperors new clothes?
Is there any hard evidence in the public domain that there may be problems...
Problems with nosewheel lowerings, landing with the gear up (supposedly impossible in this aircraft, even if the pilot forgets), the dropping of a sonic boom over shrewsbury as a rapid descent is required (where was the emergency 02 system?)......
I heard a tale that when the first Typhoon was handed over, F700 to CAS etc, a few years back, in front of all the press, etc, when everyone had gone home it was pushed back into the hangar as it wasn't actually ready for a few more months.....not sure if that is true or not, maybe somebody can confirm/deny.
My point is, did anyone actually expect anything other than 'good news' to come out of the latest briefing. That might be true, but can we take it at face value?
Another thing, achieving 99.3% of your sorties doesn't mean you had a 99.3% serviceability rate. If I know that 1 in 4 of my jets falls over on start up, I have 6 ready to go for every 4 ship planned. I might well get 4 away every time, but on many occasions have to use all 6 to achieve it. So, 99.3% of sorties achieved, but maybe a serviceability rate of 75% or less????
First of all I am not trying to 'knock' the aircraft, pilots, or groundcrew. But can we trust our lords and masters to tell the entire truth? There is a tremendous amount of pressure from the top for Typhoon to 'achieve', and give a return for all that investment. Getting it operational is one of CAS's top priorities...
So what if, while it is an excellent airframe/engine combination, it is having a massive amount of teething troubles (and I am not saying it is, just asking the question 'what if....') with its systems, avionics, software, superious warnings, etc.
Would anyone actually come out and say so? Or would it be it be a case of Emperors new clothes?
Is there any hard evidence in the public domain that there may be problems...
Problems with nosewheel lowerings, landing with the gear up (supposedly impossible in this aircraft, even if the pilot forgets), the dropping of a sonic boom over shrewsbury as a rapid descent is required (where was the emergency 02 system?)......
I heard a tale that when the first Typhoon was handed over, F700 to CAS etc, a few years back, in front of all the press, etc, when everyone had gone home it was pushed back into the hangar as it wasn't actually ready for a few more months.....not sure if that is true or not, maybe somebody can confirm/deny.
My point is, did anyone actually expect anything other than 'good news' to come out of the latest briefing. That might be true, but can we take it at face value?
Another thing, achieving 99.3% of your sorties doesn't mean you had a 99.3% serviceability rate. If I know that 1 in 4 of my jets falls over on start up, I have 6 ready to go for every 4 ship planned. I might well get 4 away every time, but on many occasions have to use all 6 to achieve it. So, 99.3% of sorties achieved, but maybe a serviceability rate of 75% or less????
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Biggus,
Whilst it hurts to admit this about the junior Service, I believe that:
Typhoon is the most capable combat aircraft ever operated by our armed forces and provides excellent 'future proofing'
Typhoon pilots are a likeable modest bunch, unlike some fellow thrust vectorers, who do not over claim for their aircraft
The previous mentioned sqn cdr is a good egg, who when in PJHQ was respected and had more moral courage in his little finger than a vat full of PPRUNERS!
There said it; I'll never admit the above publicly and we need carriers with or without JSF (back in character now).
Whilst it hurts to admit this about the junior Service, I believe that:
Typhoon is the most capable combat aircraft ever operated by our armed forces and provides excellent 'future proofing'
Typhoon pilots are a likeable modest bunch, unlike some fellow thrust vectorers, who do not over claim for their aircraft
The previous mentioned sqn cdr is a good egg, who when in PJHQ was respected and had more moral courage in his little finger than a vat full of PPRUNERS!
There said it; I'll never admit the above publicly and we need carriers with or without JSF (back in character now).
Last edited by X-Rating; 13th Jun 2008 at 19:52. Reason: spooling mistake
X-rating,
Let me be pefectly clear, I was not making, or trying to make, any personal attack on OC 11 Sqn, whom I am sure is a fine individual....
My point, no doubt badly made, was, given the 'political pressure' on the Typhoon project can we expect to hear anything other than 'good news' about it?
Maybe there is nothing but good news to hear, I don't know. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the aircraft. My (hypothetical) point was that if there was anything wrong with it, would we actually expect anyone to say so....??
Glad to hear, from both the UK and RAFs point of view, that it is indeed 'the biz'!!!
Also, believe it or not, I am one of those in light blue that welcomes the prospect of the RN getting two decent size carriers.....!!! And I am quite happy to say so!!
Let me be pefectly clear, I was not making, or trying to make, any personal attack on OC 11 Sqn, whom I am sure is a fine individual....
My point, no doubt badly made, was, given the 'political pressure' on the Typhoon project can we expect to hear anything other than 'good news' about it?
Maybe there is nothing but good news to hear, I don't know. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the aircraft. My (hypothetical) point was that if there was anything wrong with it, would we actually expect anyone to say so....??
Glad to hear, from both the UK and RAFs point of view, that it is indeed 'the biz'!!!
Also, believe it or not, I am one of those in light blue that welcomes the prospect of the RN getting two decent size carriers.....!!! And I am quite happy to say so!!
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The acclaimed air-to-air capability will only serve to annoy the friendly residents of Cumbria. The untested air-to-surface capability won't even tickle the hostile residents of Afghanistan.
Just how many Cobra's, light surveillance aircraft, and trained AAC pilots could we have got for each Typhoon/RAF pilot?
Just how many Cobra's, light surveillance aircraft, and trained AAC pilots could we have got for each Typhoon/RAF pilot?
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Cirrus - I think 6 x 1000lbs delivered accurately on your head would be a pretty good tickle. And it is tested, or didn't you read the article?
To be a really useful as a CAS aircraft it needs more (different) weapons to provide the flexibility that CAS requires. A gun, 500lb class and 1000lb class EPW/EGBU weapons would be an extremely good start - followed perhaps by 250lb then some cluster bombs. IMHO. Guess they won't get CBUs, though! Obviously also need a good pod (no, TIALD doesnt count) and good connectivity. Endurance and, to a lesser extent speed, are also useful.
From that wish list Typhoon is already OK and is only going to get better as more weapons/fits get tested and cleared.
ps if you don't have a gun then you could use rockets and pretend
.
To be a really useful as a CAS aircraft it needs more (different) weapons to provide the flexibility that CAS requires. A gun, 500lb class and 1000lb class EPW/EGBU weapons would be an extremely good start - followed perhaps by 250lb then some cluster bombs. IMHO. Guess they won't get CBUs, though! Obviously also need a good pod (no, TIALD doesnt count) and good connectivity. Endurance and, to a lesser extent speed, are also useful.
From that wish list Typhoon is already OK and is only going to get better as more weapons/fits get tested and cleared.
ps if you don't have a gun then you could use rockets and pretend
.
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At the risk of appearing flippant:
Humphrey, I want you to send our chaps out to Bignobostan. The locals are being difficult and we need to bring out the staff from the Embassy. Send in some pointy jets and stop those beastly Migs buzzing the weekly G&T resupply flight. Show them that Britain still has some get up and go.
Ah, there’s a problem there Minister.
Yes Humphrey?
Well, we can get them there in our nice new transport aeroplanes and once they are there we can move to and from the capital in our new helicopters but………
Yes Humphrey?
Well, the Tornados are all broken, waiting for a few new parts. Well, spares are just so expensive these days. And we didn’t bother taking delivery of those Typhoons as the Cold War had finished. It seemed so much better to let those workers sit and drink tea rather than build aeroplanes we didn’t need. And this new-fangled JSF is just sooooo expensive. So we thought we could do another mid life update on Tornado. We could then add a few extra spares to cover for the ones we didn't buy when we didn't need them.
Well can't we just borrow some pointy jets from the Americans like we've always done?
Oh no Minister that would never do. You see, President Obama is a big golfing chum of the Chief Minister of Bignobostan and he wouldn't want to upset him.
So you see Minister…………….
No, it could never happen……………………………
On a serious note:
Rules of War 101
1. Establish a permissive air environment.
2. .....................
Humphrey, I want you to send our chaps out to Bignobostan. The locals are being difficult and we need to bring out the staff from the Embassy. Send in some pointy jets and stop those beastly Migs buzzing the weekly G&T resupply flight. Show them that Britain still has some get up and go.
Ah, there’s a problem there Minister.
Yes Humphrey?
Well, we can get them there in our nice new transport aeroplanes and once they are there we can move to and from the capital in our new helicopters but………
Yes Humphrey?
Well, the Tornados are all broken, waiting for a few new parts. Well, spares are just so expensive these days. And we didn’t bother taking delivery of those Typhoons as the Cold War had finished. It seemed so much better to let those workers sit and drink tea rather than build aeroplanes we didn’t need. And this new-fangled JSF is just sooooo expensive. So we thought we could do another mid life update on Tornado. We could then add a few extra spares to cover for the ones we didn't buy when we didn't need them.
Well can't we just borrow some pointy jets from the Americans like we've always done?
Oh no Minister that would never do. You see, President Obama is a big golfing chum of the Chief Minister of Bignobostan and he wouldn't want to upset him.
So you see Minister…………….
No, it could never happen……………………………
On a serious note:
Rules of War 101
1. Establish a permissive air environment.
2. .....................
Last edited by Geehovah; 14th Jun 2008 at 06:59.
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Quote: Problems with nosewheel lowerings, landing with the gear up (supposedly impossible in this aircraft, even if the pilot forgets)
Not if said driver turns 'nagging Nora' off!!
Quote: The previous mentioned sqn cdr is a good egg.
Think you might want to speak to EVERY one of their groundcrew, and 'probably' some of their junior aircrew (unless of course they're after their S/L) and i thing you'll find otherwise!!! the words C**T, Wa**er, To**er, P**ck etc are often heard when in conversation about said CO!
One aim and one aim only is Stn Cdr, Balls to who he pisses off...
And by the way i'm not XI! thank god!!!!!
Not if said driver turns 'nagging Nora' off!!
Quote: The previous mentioned sqn cdr is a good egg.
Think you might want to speak to EVERY one of their groundcrew, and 'probably' some of their junior aircrew (unless of course they're after their S/L) and i thing you'll find otherwise!!! the words C**T, Wa**er, To**er, P**ck etc are often heard when in conversation about said CO!
One aim and one aim only is Stn Cdr, Balls to who he pisses off...
And by the way i'm not XI!
thank god!!!!!
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Cirrus - I think 6 x 1000lbs delivered accurately on your head would be a pretty good tickle. And it is tested, or didn't you read the article?
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DaveB77
I can only presume that you are poisonous passed over little chap that perhaps did not do to well at school. Why on earth would anyone wish to post such a warped note. Don't know what the equivalent of 'waste of rations' is in the RAF, but whatever it is, it applies to you.
I can only presume that you are poisonous passed over little chap that perhaps did not do to well at school. Why on earth would anyone wish to post such a warped note. Don't know what the equivalent of 'waste of rations' is in the RAF, but whatever it is, it applies to you.
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Q-Rating quote:
I can only presume that you are poisonous passed over little chap that perhaps did not do to well at school. Why on earth would anyone wish to post such a warped note. Don't know what the equivalent of 'waste of rations' is in the RAF, but whatever it is, it applies to you.
What on earth are you on about? I'm only assuming you've never drank Stella before? Get yourself off to bed fella and we'll chat in the morning! Unless you're at work???
I can only presume that you are poisonous passed over little chap that perhaps did not do to well at school. Why on earth would anyone wish to post such a warped note. Don't know what the equivalent of 'waste of rations' is in the RAF, but whatever it is, it applies to you.
What on earth are you on about? I'm only assuming you've never drank Stella before? Get yourself off to bed fella and we'll chat in the morning! Unless you're at work???
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X - Rating
Clearly your defending someone you don't know.
The guy is a chopper. Totally agree with Daveb77 and I do fly with him.
He is miles away from me in the echelons of power so my position is not jealousy so now, comment on my actual first hand perspective......
Or shut the F*ck up and don't comment when you don't know.
The guy is a chopper. Totally agree with Daveb77 and I do fly with him.
He is miles away from me in the echelons of power so my position is not jealousy so now, comment on my actual first hand perspective......
Or shut the F*ck up and don't comment when you don't know.
Just how many Cobra's, light surveillance aircraft, and trained AAC pilots could we have got for each Typhoon/RAF pilot?
The RAF might as well take delivery of all 232 and store the excess, this would allow for a much longer period of service and any major upgrade program ( because they will happen) would not affect the front line levels available.
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What a pleasant little chap Finger Poking is; the problem with anonymity is that is seems to inspire fellows to descend to a place that seems to contrast with the higher instincts that we who serve promote and hopefully practise. The schaden freude part of me quite enjoys witnessing an exchange that reflects so badly on the junior service, but then again it does a disservice to the very many crabs I have had the privilege to fly with, yes on operations, before someone tries to get to some operational moral high ground.
I know the previously mentioned individual very well and happen to disagree with the character assessments/assassinations posted previously. Can we pse leave it at that! In the parlance of our shared professions, 'STOP STOP STOP', 'TERMINATE, 'KNOCK IT OFF'. Please don't continue the discourse it reflects badly on all of us who are proud to serve.
On review, this posting might sound a bit pompous, but I like the chap, am proud of all our armed forces, and am IT iliterut.
I know the previously mentioned individual very well and happen to disagree with the character assessments/assassinations posted previously. Can we pse leave it at that! In the parlance of our shared professions, 'STOP STOP STOP', 'TERMINATE, 'KNOCK IT OFF'. Please don't continue the discourse it reflects badly on all of us who are proud to serve.
On review, this posting might sound a bit pompous, but I like the chap, am proud of all our armed forces, and am IT iliterut.
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X - Ranting
Fair play. Enough is enough.
One thing. Ask any of the engineers on XI and I bet you can't find a single one who does like the bloke?
They have all been Shat on repeatedly in order that he furthers himself.
I'm done now. Store Away.
One thing. Ask any of the engineers on XI and I bet you can't find a single one who does like the bloke?
They have all been Shat on repeatedly in order that he furthers himself.
I'm done now. Store Away.
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How many times does it have to be said, that canceling Typhoon will not save anything? Contract Lawyers sorted that out a long time ago.
The RAF might as well take delivery of all 232 and store the excess, this would allow for a much longer period of service and any major upgrade program ( because they will happen) would not affect the front line levels available.
The RAF might as well take delivery of all 232 and store the excess, this would allow for a much longer period of service and any major upgrade program ( because they will happen) would not affect the front line levels available.
No requirement?
Yeah, because we no longer need UK AD, or a QRA capability. When's the last time Russia sent any 'Bears' over? Oh wait ......
We no longer need AD on the Falkland Isles, because the Argentinians don't have any designs on las Islas Malvinas. Oh wait ......
And as for an affordable, deployable, multi-role Fast Jet, why on earth would we need one of those? Oh wait ......
Staggering waste of money? £19 Bn for 232 jets. Unit flyaway £42 in Tranche 2. Cheaper programme cost than Rafale.
Yeah, because we no longer need UK AD, or a QRA capability. When's the last time Russia sent any 'Bears' over? Oh wait ......
We no longer need AD on the Falkland Isles, because the Argentinians don't have any designs on las Islas Malvinas. Oh wait ......
And as for an affordable, deployable, multi-role Fast Jet, why on earth would we need one of those? Oh wait ......
Staggering waste of money? £19 Bn for 232 jets. Unit flyaway £42 in Tranche 2. Cheaper programme cost than Rafale.