B-2 Crash - Guam
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B2 crash video
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Looks like the crew tried for quite a while before they banged out!!
I would have said goodbye when it dropped at the start of failure......
Any guesses on the cause..??
It was good to know the crew made it out ok, as always.
I would have said goodbye when it dropped at the start of failure......
Any guesses on the cause..??
It was good to know the crew made it out ok, as always.
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Brave indeed, hanging around as long as they did.
Two thoughts -
1. Cameraman needs some serious training...
2. Shouldn't the squillions of $ of avionics and flight control processors have prevented the thing getting into that shape in the first place? Looked to me like it all started to go wrong at rotation. It was well before the point on the runway that the previous a/c nosed up. Then a high aoa immediately following. Software?
Two thoughts -
1. Cameraman needs some serious training...
2. Shouldn't the squillions of $ of avionics and flight control processors have prevented the thing getting into that shape in the first place? Looked to me like it all started to go wrong at rotation. It was well before the point on the runway that the previous a/c nosed up. Then a high aoa immediately following. Software?
Lucky chaps me thinks, they could have been toast. 
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Glad Crew Are Ok
To avoid sounding ghoulish, my first concern is that both crew are OK, and I am always stunned at just how effective ejector seats can be, even when used at such low altitudes (thinking back to early B52's and Starfighters), and ground speeds.
While it also struck me just how poor the cameraman/woman was, I guess they didn't have any idea of what they were about to film.
So If I can assume that even at the high AOA this aircraft found itself in, the large wing area generates high lift, to me it still looks like a B2 has quite a fair amount of thrust to keep it flying for as long as it did (in some ways akin to the infamous F100 sabre dance)
Two questions arise from watching this clip:
How long did it take the crew to think to themselves that they may be in for a serious talking to (after throwing away such an expensive and rare asset), And that not everyone (thinking accountants here) will be just happy they are OK.
Secondly, what could any pilot do with any fin less, and fly by wire aircraft in such a similar position, where the aircraft is yawing so much, and with no real altitude to correct this (I say fly by wire, as the aircraft may be doing whatever it feels, depending on software constraints)
Barnstormer 1968
While it also struck me just how poor the cameraman/woman was, I guess they didn't have any idea of what they were about to film.
So If I can assume that even at the high AOA this aircraft found itself in, the large wing area generates high lift, to me it still looks like a B2 has quite a fair amount of thrust to keep it flying for as long as it did (in some ways akin to the infamous F100 sabre dance)
Two questions arise from watching this clip:
How long did it take the crew to think to themselves that they may be in for a serious talking to (after throwing away such an expensive and rare asset), And that not everyone (thinking accountants here) will be just happy they are OK.
Secondly, what could any pilot do with any fin less, and fly by wire aircraft in such a similar position, where the aircraft is yawing so much, and with no real altitude to correct this (I say fly by wire, as the aircraft may be doing whatever it feels, depending on software constraints)
Barnstormer 1968
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With regard the "poor camerawork".the video footage is most probably taken with a remote video camera,operated by a joystick,much the same as your local CCTV in shopping centres etc.
My only assumption to this is that it may be "common practise" for such a/c to be videoed in case of bits of the carbon fibre fuselage/wings etc decide to break off etc...as happened several times on the F117 stealth fighter!!
Seems the crew did the best they could,but in reading the report,the odds were stacked against them.....Good to see they got out though!
My only assumption to this is that it may be "common practise" for such a/c to be videoed in case of bits of the carbon fibre fuselage/wings etc decide to break off etc...as happened several times on the F117 stealth fighter!!
Seems the crew did the best they could,but in reading the report,the odds were stacked against them.....Good to see they got out though!
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Aside from some type of major systems/software failure the only thing that comes to my mind is some kind of wake vortex incident. The way that the angle of attack increases so quickly just after rotation might be attributable to a disturbance in the airflow over the wing?
I've not bothered to look to see what the interval was between the first aircraft and the second but it didn't seem to be very long. As far as I recall the minimum interval for a MITO is supposed to be 60 seconds - certainly was something like that in my days whilst maintaining B-52s (at Andersen Air Force Base on Guam funnily enough - good to see the place again although not in the best of circumstances
).
On edit - clearly, now having read the report into this crash, it had nothing to do with any wake vortices
I've not bothered to look to see what the interval was between the first aircraft and the second but it didn't seem to be very long. As far as I recall the minimum interval for a MITO is supposed to be 60 seconds - certainly was something like that in my days whilst maintaining B-52s (at Andersen Air Force Base on Guam funnily enough - good to see the place again although not in the best of circumstances
).On edit - clearly, now having read the report into this crash, it had nothing to do with any wake vortices
Last edited by wclark1238; 6th Jun 2008 at 15:10.
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The fire, which was reported shortly after takeoff, was followed by an uncommanded and uncontrollable roll.
Chief of Air Combat Command said in an article AW&ST "aircraft rotated early, rotated excessively, stalled and dragged the left wing tip". C of G is maintained by transferring fuel between fore and aft tanks and article questions if malfunctioning or mis-setting of system may play a role.
Chief of Air Combat Command said in an article AW&ST "aircraft rotated early, rotated excessively, stalled and dragged the left wing tip". C of G is maintained by transferring fuel between fore and aft tanks and article questions if malfunctioning or mis-setting of system may play a role.
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http://www.acc.af.mil/media/archives...p?id=123101589
B-2 ACCIDENT REPORT RELEASED
Release Number: 020608
6/5/2008 - LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. -- Distorted data introduced by a B-2 Spirit's air data system skewed information entering the bomber's flight control computers ultimately causing the crash of the aircraft on takeoff at Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, Feb. 23, according to an Air Combat Command accident investigation report released today.
Moisture in the aircraft's Port Transducer Units during air data calibration distorted the information in the bomber's air data system, causing the flight control computers to calculate an inaccurate airspeed and a negative angle of attack upon takeoff. According to the report, this caused an, "uncommanded 30 degree nose-high pitch-up on takeoff, causing the aircraft to stall and its subsequent crash."
Moisture in the PTUs, inaccurate airspeed, a negative AOA calculation and low altitude/low airspeed are substantially contributing factors in this mishap. Another substantially contributing factor was the ineffective communication of critical information regarding a suggested technique of turning on pitot heat in order to remove moisture from the PTUs prior to performing an air data calibration.
The pilot received minor injuries, and the co-pilot received a spinal compression fracture during ejection. He was treated at Tripler Army Medical Center, Hawaii, and released. The aircraft was assigned to the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo.
The cost of the lost aircraft is about $1.4 billion.
B-2 ACCIDENT REPORT RELEASED
Release Number: 020608
6/5/2008 - LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. -- Distorted data introduced by a B-2 Spirit's air data system skewed information entering the bomber's flight control computers ultimately causing the crash of the aircraft on takeoff at Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, Feb. 23, according to an Air Combat Command accident investigation report released today.
Moisture in the aircraft's Port Transducer Units during air data calibration distorted the information in the bomber's air data system, causing the flight control computers to calculate an inaccurate airspeed and a negative angle of attack upon takeoff. According to the report, this caused an, "uncommanded 30 degree nose-high pitch-up on takeoff, causing the aircraft to stall and its subsequent crash."
Moisture in the PTUs, inaccurate airspeed, a negative AOA calculation and low altitude/low airspeed are substantially contributing factors in this mishap. Another substantially contributing factor was the ineffective communication of critical information regarding a suggested technique of turning on pitot heat in order to remove moisture from the PTUs prior to performing an air data calibration.
The pilot received minor injuries, and the co-pilot received a spinal compression fracture during ejection. He was treated at Tripler Army Medical Center, Hawaii, and released. The aircraft was assigned to the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo.
The cost of the lost aircraft is about $1.4 billion.
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B-2 Crash footage released
Recently the footage showing a B-2 crash at Andersen Air Force Base, Guam.
Footage can be found here
http://www.dutchops.com/Interesting/USAF_B2CRASH.htm
Footage can be found here
http://www.dutchops.com/Interesting/USAF_B2CRASH.htm
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Air Force: Sensor moisture caused 1st B-2 crash
By JAYMES SONG – 14 hours ago
HICKAM AIR FORCE BASE, Hawaii (AP) — The Air Force on Thursday said the first crash of a B-2 stealth bomber was caused by moisture in sensors and estimated the loss of the aircraft at $1.4 billion.
The crash probably could have been avoided if knowledge of a technique to evaporate the moisture had been disseminated throughout the B-2 program, said Maj. Gen. Floyd L. Carpenter, who headed an accident investigation board.
The "Spirit of Kansas" abruptly pitched up, rolled and yawed to the left Feb. 23 before plunging to the ground at Andersen Air Force Base on the island of Guam. Both pilots ejected safely just after the left wing made contact with the ground in the first crash since the maiden B-2 flights nearly 20 years ago.
"It was just by the grace of God that they were safe, and the good (ejection) system," Carpenter said.
Water distorted preflight readings in three of the plane's 24 sensors, making the aircraft's control computer force the B-2 to pitch up on takeoff, resulting in a stall and subsequent crash...
By JAYMES SONG – 14 hours ago
HICKAM AIR FORCE BASE, Hawaii (AP) — The Air Force on Thursday said the first crash of a B-2 stealth bomber was caused by moisture in sensors and estimated the loss of the aircraft at $1.4 billion.
The crash probably could have been avoided if knowledge of a technique to evaporate the moisture had been disseminated throughout the B-2 program, said Maj. Gen. Floyd L. Carpenter, who headed an accident investigation board.
The "Spirit of Kansas" abruptly pitched up, rolled and yawed to the left Feb. 23 before plunging to the ground at Andersen Air Force Base on the island of Guam. Both pilots ejected safely just after the left wing made contact with the ground in the first crash since the maiden B-2 flights nearly 20 years ago.
"It was just by the grace of God that they were safe, and the good (ejection) system," Carpenter said.
Water distorted preflight readings in three of the plane's 24 sensors, making the aircraft's control computer force the B-2 to pitch up on takeoff, resulting in a stall and subsequent crash...
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a video of the Air Force Chief of Staff appears on the main MFD saying, "Oh no you don't. Try harder."
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I have to agree with an earlier poster; It looks like the 'rotate' occurs much earlier, but this could easily be due to different take off figures.
Still, I'm sure they didn't 'mean' to rotate to 30 nose up, so something must have gone T*ts Up! Overall, they look like they did their very best, and based on what the flight controls are doing
they had their hands full!
Actually, contrary to earlier posters, I think they ejected only when they were sure they had really lost it (Quite right too!), it almost looked to me like they were actually trying to re-land / Abort ? But as always, it is really just a first glance impression.
Any heavy guys fancy a comment?
Regards,
Advo
PS: Glad they are OK(ish), but as always in these cases, it could have been so much worse. Money is just that.....Life is irreplaceble.
Still, I'm sure they didn't 'mean' to rotate to 30 nose up, so something must have gone T*ts Up! Overall, they look like they did their very best, and based on what the flight controls are doing
they had their hands full!Actually, contrary to earlier posters, I think they ejected only when they were sure they had really lost it (Quite right too!), it almost looked to me like they were actually trying to re-land / Abort ? But as always, it is really just a first glance impression.
Any heavy guys fancy a comment?
Regards,
Advo
PS: Glad they are OK(ish), but as always in these cases, it could have been so much worse. Money is just that.....Life is irreplaceble.
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So it's GIGO then. I suppose it's still software-related.
The late (but mercifully successful) ejection is, I would say, almost certainly due to the $$$$$$ figures involved. You wouldn't want to be seen to be abandoning that amount of cash without putting up a decent fight!
The late (but mercifully successful) ejection is, I would say, almost certainly due to the $$$$$$ figures involved. You wouldn't want to be seen to be abandoning that amount of cash without putting up a decent fight!