Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
You are as gracious as ever Danny. I started to have my doubts as soon as I had posted, but the points you make are worth any sniggering from the back of the class. So what about that errant blast tube? Just a bit of unfinished work when tiffin time was called? As to the props, perhaps they are looking for a craft knife to cut them from the sprue? 
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Stanwell (#9262),
Y-ess, now I come to look at it, the vertical dark lines are obviously for that purpose. Can't see that they would be any use, as you could see the holds going up and had to feel for them going down. So what about the little rectangular notices ? They seem to have some message on them - but what could it be ? (old eyes not so good for past few days).
Needless to say, all lines and notices long gone before we got them. Really, it was only the rear navs/gunners who used them, the pilots scrambled up the u/c leg and jumped down off the trailing edge.
Danny.
Y-ess, now I come to look at it, the vertical dark lines are obviously for that purpose. Can't see that they would be any use, as you could see the holds going up and had to feel for them going down. So what about the little rectangular notices ? They seem to have some message on them - but what could it be ? (old eyes not so good for past few days).
Needless to say, all lines and notices long gone before we got them. Really, it was only the rear navs/gunners who used them, the pilots scrambled up the u/c leg and jumped down off the trailing edge.
Danny.
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Bits 'n Pieces.
Chugalug (#9263),
Yes, that's what it clearly is (as Stanwell gently pointed out to me); I at first could only see the brightly lit upper surface, and assumed something about as thick as a pitot head rod, but on closer inspection with magnifying glass made out the unlit lower part and the open end of a tube.
Charwallah came round, maybe ? Pay Parade ?
No wooden props - white ants !
Danny.
... So what about that errant blast tube?...
,,, Just a bit of unfinished work when tiffin time was called?...
... perhaps they are looking for a craft knife to cut them from the sprue...
Danny.
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It's not your eyes, Danny.
The image is too indistinct to make out the script.
Perhaps they might say .. 'This way IN' or, they could be end-user warnings - something like .. 'All care but no responsibility'?
The image is too indistinct to make out the script.
Perhaps they might say .. 'This way IN' or, they could be end-user warnings - something like .. 'All care but no responsibility'?
Catalinas in WWII
Lurkers within striking range of Dublin might be interested in this (pity about the missing word in the description, though! Agog to find out over which expanse of water he operated):
Upcoming Events ? Living History: Ted Jones and life in the RAF in WWII ? The Dublin Festival of History
I'm particularly interested because my brother-in-law's late father trained on Catalinas in Pensacola during WWII, and it was my attempts to find out more about this that led me to this thread.
If I have an opportunity, I'll do my best to try to recruit the speaker to this thread.
Upcoming Events ? Living History: Ted Jones and life in the RAF in WWII ? The Dublin Festival of History
I'm particularly interested because my brother-in-law's late father trained on Catalinas in Pensacola during WWII, and it was my attempts to find out more about this that led me to this thread.
If I have an opportunity, I'll do my best to try to recruit the speaker to this thread.
Chugalug2
I was at Seletar in 1958 and it was a sorry sight to see 205/209's Sunderlands being broken up for scrap by Chinese contractors as seen here in my photos:
In particular the "Elephants' Graveyard" at Drigh Road must be a very sad one for you, Danny. Is this where all the RAF ones in India (then) ended up, i.e. just outside Karachi? Presumably once stripped of props, engines, instruments, radios etc., they then fell to the scrap merchant's axe. At least the Hastings ended up in the main dispersed, as "one off" trainers for various RAF Stations' Fire Sections to practice on and so fulfilling their duty to the very end...
I was at Seletar in 1958 and it was a sorry sight to see 205/209's Sunderlands being broken up for scrap by Chinese contractors as seen here in my photos:
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All in the Point of View.
Keeffro (#9267),
I was rather under the impression that citizens of the Republic who'd volunteered for the British Forces in WWII were not exactly welcomed as heroes when/if they came home afterwards. Has a sort of "general amnesty" for them been declared in Eire ?
Moves me to re-tell a story from a wartime "Readers' Digest", which illustrates the dichotomy perfectly. The RD man was enjoying the last rays of sunshine over the taffrail of one of the Holyhead-Dublin ferries which ran throughout the war. Next to him was an athletic young man in sports jacket and flannels; the following dialogue ensued: "Why don't you Irish allow the British the use of your Channel ports ?"..."We hate the British"..."So do you want Hitler to win this war ?"..."Of course not !"..."So what are you doing about it ?"..."I fly a Hurricane !...." This, of course, makes perfect sense to the Irish mind.
Please do - the old-timers are thin on the ground now, another one would be most welcome, and would be sure of making many new friends in this our old crewroom in cyberspace.
Danny.
...Upcoming Events ? Living History: Ted Jones and life in the RAF in WWII ? The Dublin Festival of History...
Moves me to re-tell a story from a wartime "Readers' Digest", which illustrates the dichotomy perfectly. The RD man was enjoying the last rays of sunshine over the taffrail of one of the Holyhead-Dublin ferries which ran throughout the war. Next to him was an athletic young man in sports jacket and flannels; the following dialogue ensued: "Why don't you Irish allow the British the use of your Channel ports ?"..."We hate the British"..."So do you want Hitler to win this war ?"..."Of course not !"..."So what are you doing about it ?"..."I fly a Hurricane !...." This, of course, makes perfect sense to the Irish mind.
...If I have an opportunity, I'll do my best to try to recruit the speaker to this thread...
Danny.
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Warmtoast (#9268)
A sad sight, indeed. And I was told the stripped hulks of the Valiants went for scrap at £75 apiece.
Sic transit........
Danny.
...I was at Seletar in 1958 and it was a sorry sight to see 205/209's Sunderlands being broken up for scrap by Chinese contractors as seen here in my photos:...
Sic transit........
Danny.
Oops! Forgotten how to do a quote here, but anyway:
Two (or more) stories here:
The Irish Free State maintained a superficially strict policy of neutrality, but a very blind eye was turned to Irishmen joining the British forces during what was known here at the time not as "the War", but "the Emergency".
However, Irish servicemen who deserted the Irish Forces to join the British were, indeed, given a raw deal, including being barred from public employment in this State for years afterwards, and some suffered many years of unemployment.
In 2012 a belated and rather symbolic act of rehabilitation was adopted by the Irish parliament at the behest of Minister Alan Shatter. Here's a newspaper report that gives a brief summary plus the main statistics: Shatter finally brings in amnesty for deserters who fought Nazis - Independent.ie
Shatter, being Jewish, had particular reason to honour those who fought against the Nazis, but his initiative fits in comfortably with a new willingness to recognise Irishmen who fought in the British Forces in both World Wars. This is all part of a slow process of reconciliation flowing from the Good Friday Agreement. At the moment, much of the focus (particularly since the centenary of the 1916 Rising) is on commemoration of the First World War.
I'll drip-feed a couple of further related items with more direct relevance to this thread when I have a chance to check a few facts from various books etc.
I was rather under the impression that citizens of the Republic who'd volunteered for the British Forces in WWII were not exactly welcomed as heroes when/if they came home afterwards. Has a sort of "general amnesty" for them been declared in Eire?
The Irish Free State maintained a superficially strict policy of neutrality, but a very blind eye was turned to Irishmen joining the British forces during what was known here at the time not as "the War", but "the Emergency".
However, Irish servicemen who deserted the Irish Forces to join the British were, indeed, given a raw deal, including being barred from public employment in this State for years afterwards, and some suffered many years of unemployment.
In 2012 a belated and rather symbolic act of rehabilitation was adopted by the Irish parliament at the behest of Minister Alan Shatter. Here's a newspaper report that gives a brief summary plus the main statistics: Shatter finally brings in amnesty for deserters who fought Nazis - Independent.ie
Shatter, being Jewish, had particular reason to honour those who fought against the Nazis, but his initiative fits in comfortably with a new willingness to recognise Irishmen who fought in the British Forces in both World Wars. This is all part of a slow process of reconciliation flowing from the Good Friday Agreement. At the moment, much of the focus (particularly since the centenary of the 1916 Rising) is on commemoration of the First World War.
I'll drip-feed a couple of further related items with more direct relevance to this thread when I have a chance to check a few facts from various books etc.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 13th Sep 2016 at 01:44. Reason: Fixed the quote
I thought the idea they had at Duxford interviewing wartime aircrew as the backdrop to the display on at the time was brilliant. Sorry, did not catch the name. but the pilot telling of operating over the beaches during the "Dunkirk" item brought tears to my eyes. Thanks to all who took part
Incidentally, why does it always get forgotten that at the same time a substantial number of personnel was lifted from Southern Brittany, during which of course Lancastria was bombed and sunk with great loss of life
Incidentally, why does it always get forgotten that at the same time a substantial number of personnel was lifted from Southern Brittany, during which of course Lancastria was bombed and sunk with great loss of life
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Scrap ... they broke up 60's Javelins in F dispersal at Tengah, right below the Officers Mess, in 67/68 (?). A dozen local workers with axes and sledgehammers ... it was not a pretty sight.
I may add a couple of photos when I get home later this week.
I may add a couple of photos when I get home later this week.
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Originally Posted by Keeffro
The Irish Free State maintained a superficially strict policy of neutrality, but a very blind eye was turned to Irishmen joining the British forces during what was known here at the time not as "the War", but "the Emergency"
Bushmills???
That's a Northern Irish whiskey produced at Bushmills, County Antrim. I know, I have been to that distillery several times as Officer I/C Airmen's Entertainment.
It would have been Jamesons; another excellent whiskey.
That's a Northern Irish whiskey produced at Bushmills, County Antrim. I know, I have been to that distillery several times as Officer I/C Airmen's Entertainment.
It would have been Jamesons; another excellent whiskey.
Foreign Aircraft Landings - Ireland 1939-1945
Foreign Aircraft in Ireland 1939 - 1945
You could while away an hour or two here (with a glass of Whiskey) natch!
Ian BB
You could while away an hour or two here (with a glass of Whiskey) natch!
Ian BB
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À propos nothing in particular, watched "Aircrash:Terror in The Sky" (Channel 5 1900-2000 BST last evening). Having first fearfully embarked on a search for "My5" (I am as a babe unborn in IT matters), I got there in the end - and if I can do it, anyone can !)
IMHO, well worth a look if you have an idle hour. Had to put up with 2.45 mins of ads first, but a documentary of a true story followed. Apart from the first few minutes of hamming it up, the story was very well told and free of Hollywood exaggeration. They were bloody lucky to get away with it !
Danny.
IMHO, well worth a look if you have an idle hour. Had to put up with 2.45 mins of ads first, but a documentary of a true story followed. Apart from the first few minutes of hamming it up, the story was very well told and free of Hollywood exaggeration. They were bloody lucky to get away with it !
Danny.
Thank you, Ian,
Duly bookmarked for perusal as soon as the sun drops below the RAF equivalent of the yard arm.
That link saves me from the embarrassment of half-remembered anecdotes and possible urban myths.
Duly bookmarked for perusal as soon as the sun drops below the RAF equivalent of the yard arm.
That link saves me from the embarrassment of half-remembered anecdotes and possible urban myths.
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Hempy,
An interesting sideline was the "accidental" bombing of Dublin by the Luftwaffe several times during WWII. A popular myth ascribed this to our ability to "bend" the Knickebein ("Crooked leg") beam navigation system used by the Luftwaffe, and so deflect bombs intended for (say) Liverpool to Dublin (this would hardly earn us Brownie points over there !)
Seems there was no truth in it. Google: "The Battle of the Beams". Wiki knows all about it.
Danny.
An interesting sideline was the "accidental" bombing of Dublin by the Luftwaffe several times during WWII. A popular myth ascribed this to our ability to "bend" the Knickebein ("Crooked leg") beam navigation system used by the Luftwaffe, and so deflect bombs intended for (say) Liverpool to Dublin (this would hardly earn us Brownie points over there !)
Seems there was no truth in it. Google: "The Battle of the Beams". Wiki knows all about it.
Danny.
This may be of interest Danny, the RAF Historical Society & Staff College Paper #6 (March 1995), "The RAF and the Far East War 1941-1945". Page 40 gives a brief mention of the Vengeance, but other presentations cover the overall campaign by Land and Air:-
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/document...st-Air-War.pdf
This and another five Bracknell papers together with 48 (so far) of the RAFHS Journals can be accessed here:-
RAF Historical Society Journals | Collections | Research | RAF Museum
Details of the Society can be found here:-
RAF Historical Society Journals | Collections | Research | RAF Museum
I apologise for this blatant plug, but the readers of this thread are by definition interested in RAF (and Danny's!) history and the Society puts on two Seminars and an AGM (at RAFM Hendon, and the RAF Club respectively, though Hendon often gives way to other locations). Annual sub is £18 and the Seminars tend to cost £20 for the day including Tea/Coffee and a finger buffet. Read some of the Journals to get a feel for the depth and breadth of the Seminars.
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/document...st-Air-War.pdf
This and another five Bracknell papers together with 48 (so far) of the RAFHS Journals can be accessed here:-
RAF Historical Society Journals | Collections | Research | RAF Museum
Details of the Society can be found here:-
RAF Historical Society Journals | Collections | Research | RAF Museum
I apologise for this blatant plug, but the readers of this thread are by definition interested in RAF (and Danny's!) history and the Society puts on two Seminars and an AGM (at RAFM Hendon, and the RAF Club respectively, though Hendon often gives way to other locations). Annual sub is £18 and the Seminars tend to cost £20 for the day including Tea/Coffee and a finger buffet. Read some of the Journals to get a feel for the depth and breadth of the Seminars.