Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Thanks, Fareastdriver ... a masterly presentation on the multiple effects of controls in a helicopter!! 
Buster11 ... very nostalgic! I know the area quite well, as we initially retired to Camberley before emigrating here.
Buster11 ... very nostalgic! I know the area quite well, as we initially retired to Camberley before emigrating here.
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The Good Old Days.
Buster11 (#9139),
The special virtue of "Pilot's Brevet" is that we are under the wise supervision of our infinitely tolerant Moderators, who early realised that old fellas ramble off in all directions - but can always be counted on to come home for tea. So they allow us enormous rope, provided that we play nicely and are never rude to each other.
In consequence, they have presided over the eight-year growth of the most popular Thread on "Military Aviation" Forum (and possiblly on any other PPRuNe Forum). To back this up, I invite you to consider only Threads which have over 5,000 replies (ie Posts) - to allow the Law of Large Numbers to come into play - and then divide the number of "Views" (ie "hits") by the number of replies.
Who would dispute that that the number of hits per Post is a fair indicator of popularity ?
The results are striking:
"Caption Competition" (which you would suppose to romp away from the field)........140.
"F-35 Cancelled, then what ?" (could be renamed: "Now what's the matter with it ?)...163.
"Gaining an R.A.F. Pilot's Brevet in WWII"....(wait for it, rumble of drums) ................239.
Yes, it deserves some form of prize !
It was so, I remember when we senior boys from St. Joseph's were allowed out for a couple of hours on Sunday afternoons (but caps had to be worn so that miscreants could be identified and reported to the College). Our favourite port of call was Stanley Park Aerodrome (about a mile away) . We wandered in, closely inspected the Gypsy, Puss and all sorts of other Moths and various things in the open hangars, and watched the Club flying at a respectful distance. But we we would not go into a cockpit, only looked through cabin windows, were careful not to do any harm, and would have been horrified at the very idea of any theft or vandalism.
It is hard to remember such days now.
Danny.
...on a thread that must surely be due some sort of prize for being the most divergent from its actual title...
In consequence, they have presided over the eight-year growth of the most popular Thread on "Military Aviation" Forum (and possiblly on any other PPRuNe Forum). To back this up, I invite you to consider only Threads which have over 5,000 replies (ie Posts) - to allow the Law of Large Numbers to come into play - and then divide the number of "Views" (ie "hits") by the number of replies.
Who would dispute that that the number of hits per Post is a fair indicator of popularity ?
The results are striking:
"Caption Competition" (which you would suppose to romp away from the field)........140.
"F-35 Cancelled, then what ?" (could be renamed: "Now what's the matter with it ?)...163.
"Gaining an R.A.F. Pilot's Brevet in WWII"....(wait for it, rumble of drums) ................239.
Yes, it deserves some form of prize !
...I wandered about on the airfield (nobody seemed to mind reasonably-behaved small boys then)...
It is hard to remember such days now.
Danny.
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I'd just today received some material from the RAAF Museum.
Persistent readers of this thread may have noticed that the question of the differences between the RAF and RAAF badges and uniforms had previously been raised.
Well, where do I start?
This is going to take a little while for me, given that I've got quite a bit on my plate at the moment.
So, I'll just try to break it down into bite-sized pieces when I have the opportunity to take a rest, a cuppa and sit down in front of the evil machine.
The story reads like something from a script of "Yes Minister".
It had been reported that the Chester Herald described the RAF '****e-Hawk' as "a cross between an albatross, eagle and parrot".
I understand that our (Oz) Air Board, in the latter 1930s, had decided that it would be a good idea to adopt a badge that should incorporate a bird
that looked like an eagle, rather than something that could be mistaken for an albatross.
In true Sir Humphrey fashion, it took nearly seven years (and, no doubt, a good slice of the GNP) for them to get that right.
Back later. Duty calls.
Persistent readers of this thread may have noticed that the question of the differences between the RAF and RAAF badges and uniforms had previously been raised.
Well, where do I start?
This is going to take a little while for me, given that I've got quite a bit on my plate at the moment.
So, I'll just try to break it down into bite-sized pieces when I have the opportunity to take a rest, a cuppa and sit down in front of the evil machine.
The story reads like something from a script of "Yes Minister".
It had been reported that the Chester Herald described the RAF '****e-Hawk' as "a cross between an albatross, eagle and parrot".
I understand that our (Oz) Air Board, in the latter 1930s, had decided that it would be a good idea to adopt a badge that should incorporate a bird
that looked like an eagle, rather than something that could be mistaken for an albatross.
In true Sir Humphrey fashion, it took nearly seven years (and, no doubt, a good slice of the GNP) for them to get that right.
Back later. Duty calls.
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Old Comrades
After a good sleep I walked around and met Lieutenant Grayber, a very cheerful young man who drove me about in his jeep on various visits and finally took me to lunch at his Mess. Meat and vegetables, fried potatoes and bread that was too white to be true, and tasted like cake.
Mr. Mackintosh, a Red Cross man, fixed things for me to send a cable home, informing my family that I was safe and well. Grayber said he thought we may have to stay a couple of days, but after another hour or two spent in looking at the German prisoners, now so humble and submissive, he suddenly announced that he thought he could get us away. Half an hour later we were in trucks again, bound for the city of Halle.
When we arrived we were taken to a large barracks and registered as ex-PoWs, shown a block of rooms and told to pick our own. These were in a shocking state and looked as though they had contained a horde of wild pigs. By this time there was only "Flash" Gordon left with me.
We cleaned up as best we could, and were then taken once again for delousing and had our clothes "cooked". We were issued with tickets to obtain our tea and were very surprised when issued with 500 grms. of bread, nearly twice as much as we had been getting per day with the Germans. It was the same at breakfast and lunch the next day, far more than our poor stomachs could take at that time.
Bye-bye Yanks!
I found a job with the office staff typing out lists of names and military details of new arrivals. After 5 days I began to suspect we were getting no closer to our desire to get out of Germany. The fact was that we were actually being held prisoners by the Americans, on the grounds that the Allies didn't want unidentified refugees and ex- prisoners like us wandering over the countryside still at war. Perfectly reasonable of course. The result was that we were not allowed out of the barracks, and there were armed guards on all the exits.
After prowling around the large building we discovered basement rooms or offices, all with barred windows, giving access to the street on the "quiet" side of the barracks. I don't remember what instruments we used for the purpose, but with determination we were able to prise apart the bars of one window, large enough for us to climb out, up the side of the concreted, moat-like surround and merge with some passers-by in the street. We were then soon on our way westwards.
We left Halle on the Saturday, stayed with some American Military Policemen for the night at Sangerhausen and reached Nordhausen on Sunday. We were "screened" by the Military Government and taken to the airport. We met a Captain who was a medical officer and he assured us that there was no hope of a flight from Nordhausen airfield. Back at Nordhausen town we were accommodated by American troops who, in spite of our protests, gave us their beds in a commandeered German home and took us to their Mess for dinner, a really wonderful meal.
In Nordhausen was a factory where the V1 and V2 bombs were made. There were some terrible stories about the place. When the Americans arrived they found, in the concentration camp attached to the factories, hundreds of bodies of prisoners, men, women and children, who had been literally starved and overworked to death. The Germans had been bringing 1,000 new civilian labourers of foreign nationality to the town every week. They were worked and starved to death, then a fresh batch arrived.
On Monday we were given credentials asking American forces to do everything possible to expedite our return west by road or air. Captain MacFarlane, who was in charge of the airport, told us that he would definitely get us away, although we would have to wait until the hospital patients were evacuated. We waited on the aerodrome until 4p.m., then decided to go back to town once more. We stayed in the same house and had another good night's sleep in a wonderful bed. Those Yankee boys certainly treated us well. We had an orange, cereal with milk, eggs, bacon, white bread and butter and coffee for breakfast. A prisoner's dream of home! We then went to the aerodrome again together with 3 American soldiers, but nothing came in by 2pm so we got onto the road for Kassel and made our way west, as advised by the Military Government.
We left Nordhausen by jeep with another American Leutenant and got as far as Warburg, which is 20 miles west of Kassel. Here we were persuaded by an American Major to leave the jeep, in which it was our intention to proceed as far as Brussels in Belgium, since he said we could be flown away immediately if we would allow him to send us to an aerodrome nearby. We were taken to Paderborn where we met a British officer, Major Bell. He passed us on to another American, Major Rand, at the next village and we finished up by being taken under the wing of a Colonel Eastree. We were accommodated for the night and the Colonel promised us that we would be on our way home the next day.
At 9a.m. on Wednesday, we were again driven over the countryside and arrived at Hildesheim, 100 kilometres north-east of Warburg. Here we were disinfected (oh Gawd) once again and registered, being group No. 145. At 2p.m. we were overjoyed to hear the shout, "All British and Americans down to the hangars." We were loaded into American Dakota C47s, (called DC3's by the British) and at 5.30p.m. found ourselves at Brussels. We were greeted by a Royal Air Force film unit. One of its members looked at me curiously, eyes fixed on my self-made shoulder epaulettes on my shirt. "What's your rank?" he said. Giving him a short explanation, I said, "I'm a Flying Officer." "Blimey", he replied, "you nearly made yourself an Air Commodore, didn’t you?"
There was a contingent of the Red Cross, who supplied us with tea, biscuits, chocolate, cigarettes etc. We were taken to a barracks in town, de-fumigated for the umpteenth time, fed, registered, interrogated etc. At 9p.m. Flash and I took a tramcar ride to see the city, which was very lively. We missed the last tram back, and had to walk all the way.
Mr. Mackintosh, a Red Cross man, fixed things for me to send a cable home, informing my family that I was safe and well. Grayber said he thought we may have to stay a couple of days, but after another hour or two spent in looking at the German prisoners, now so humble and submissive, he suddenly announced that he thought he could get us away. Half an hour later we were in trucks again, bound for the city of Halle.
When we arrived we were taken to a large barracks and registered as ex-PoWs, shown a block of rooms and told to pick our own. These were in a shocking state and looked as though they had contained a horde of wild pigs. By this time there was only "Flash" Gordon left with me.
We cleaned up as best we could, and were then taken once again for delousing and had our clothes "cooked". We were issued with tickets to obtain our tea and were very surprised when issued with 500 grms. of bread, nearly twice as much as we had been getting per day with the Germans. It was the same at breakfast and lunch the next day, far more than our poor stomachs could take at that time.
Bye-bye Yanks!
I found a job with the office staff typing out lists of names and military details of new arrivals. After 5 days I began to suspect we were getting no closer to our desire to get out of Germany. The fact was that we were actually being held prisoners by the Americans, on the grounds that the Allies didn't want unidentified refugees and ex- prisoners like us wandering over the countryside still at war. Perfectly reasonable of course. The result was that we were not allowed out of the barracks, and there were armed guards on all the exits.
After prowling around the large building we discovered basement rooms or offices, all with barred windows, giving access to the street on the "quiet" side of the barracks. I don't remember what instruments we used for the purpose, but with determination we were able to prise apart the bars of one window, large enough for us to climb out, up the side of the concreted, moat-like surround and merge with some passers-by in the street. We were then soon on our way westwards.
We left Halle on the Saturday, stayed with some American Military Policemen for the night at Sangerhausen and reached Nordhausen on Sunday. We were "screened" by the Military Government and taken to the airport. We met a Captain who was a medical officer and he assured us that there was no hope of a flight from Nordhausen airfield. Back at Nordhausen town we were accommodated by American troops who, in spite of our protests, gave us their beds in a commandeered German home and took us to their Mess for dinner, a really wonderful meal.
In Nordhausen was a factory where the V1 and V2 bombs were made. There were some terrible stories about the place. When the Americans arrived they found, in the concentration camp attached to the factories, hundreds of bodies of prisoners, men, women and children, who had been literally starved and overworked to death. The Germans had been bringing 1,000 new civilian labourers of foreign nationality to the town every week. They were worked and starved to death, then a fresh batch arrived.
On Monday we were given credentials asking American forces to do everything possible to expedite our return west by road or air. Captain MacFarlane, who was in charge of the airport, told us that he would definitely get us away, although we would have to wait until the hospital patients were evacuated. We waited on the aerodrome until 4p.m., then decided to go back to town once more. We stayed in the same house and had another good night's sleep in a wonderful bed. Those Yankee boys certainly treated us well. We had an orange, cereal with milk, eggs, bacon, white bread and butter and coffee for breakfast. A prisoner's dream of home! We then went to the aerodrome again together with 3 American soldiers, but nothing came in by 2pm so we got onto the road for Kassel and made our way west, as advised by the Military Government.
We left Nordhausen by jeep with another American Leutenant and got as far as Warburg, which is 20 miles west of Kassel. Here we were persuaded by an American Major to leave the jeep, in which it was our intention to proceed as far as Brussels in Belgium, since he said we could be flown away immediately if we would allow him to send us to an aerodrome nearby. We were taken to Paderborn where we met a British officer, Major Bell. He passed us on to another American, Major Rand, at the next village and we finished up by being taken under the wing of a Colonel Eastree. We were accommodated for the night and the Colonel promised us that we would be on our way home the next day.
At 9a.m. on Wednesday, we were again driven over the countryside and arrived at Hildesheim, 100 kilometres north-east of Warburg. Here we were disinfected (oh Gawd) once again and registered, being group No. 145. At 2p.m. we were overjoyed to hear the shout, "All British and Americans down to the hangars." We were loaded into American Dakota C47s, (called DC3's by the British) and at 5.30p.m. found ourselves at Brussels. We were greeted by a Royal Air Force film unit. One of its members looked at me curiously, eyes fixed on my self-made shoulder epaulettes on my shirt. "What's your rank?" he said. Giving him a short explanation, I said, "I'm a Flying Officer." "Blimey", he replied, "you nearly made yourself an Air Commodore, didn’t you?"
There was a contingent of the Red Cross, who supplied us with tea, biscuits, chocolate, cigarettes etc. We were taken to a barracks in town, de-fumigated for the umpteenth time, fed, registered, interrogated etc. At 9p.m. Flash and I took a tramcar ride to see the city, which was very lively. We missed the last tram back, and had to walk all the way.
Danny's excursions into the wonders of Stanley Park Aerodrome recalls Clive James, who in his 'Unreliable Memoirs' tells of his early fascination with the aircraft of the Second World War. He and his mate Gary had unrestricted access to Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport, known simply as Mascot.
copy this into browser to read relevant pages -
https://books.google.com.au/books?
id=MiXvAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT57&lpg=PT57&dq=clive+james++mascot&sour ce=bl&ots=ObY5oFc5lO&sig=NbP9aiqSBdd1U2k49aDUM2PySDA&hl=en&s a=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4mYjg2sjOAhVJGZQKHQ9tCEEQ6AEIWTAJ#v=onepage& q=clive%20james%20%20mascot&f=false
Danny,(sorry to carp and cavil), it was a Gipsy. I lost a spell-check bet once, when I also got it wrong.
copy this into browser to read relevant pages -
https://books.google.com.au/books?
id=MiXvAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT57&lpg=PT57&dq=clive+james++mascot&sour ce=bl&ots=ObY5oFc5lO&sig=NbP9aiqSBdd1U2k49aDUM2PySDA&hl=en&s a=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4mYjg2sjOAhVJGZQKHQ9tCEEQ6AEIWTAJ#v=onepage& q=clive%20james%20%20mascot&f=false
We wandered in, closely inspected the Gypsy, Puss and all sorts of other Moths and various things in the open hangars
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Walter - Getting PoWs to work on sensitive installations such as railways has always struck me as a brave thing to do. Was there any sabotage that you were aware of?
I am struck by the CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (for, effectively, forced labourers in WW2), a copy of which popped up on an email the other day.
https://www.cia.gov/news-information...abotage_sm.pdf
I am struck by the CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (for, effectively, forced labourers in WW2), a copy of which popped up on an email the other day.
https://www.cia.gov/news-information...abotage_sm.pdf
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Jf at first you don't succeed........
Walter,
An opprtunity for you to set your "humble and submissive" prisoners to work, I would have thought !
Never wise to disclose that you have a particular (and useful) skill. Classic case: "Anyone able to play a piano ?"........"Right, come with me, we want you to move the NAAFI piano to Stores !"
The homing instinct is very strong !
EXtract from my Post p.139 #2777:
Not only prisoners !... I still recall our first Canadian meals in 1941 after arriving there from severly rationed Britain.
But this time it was true - after so many vicissitudes !
Extract from my Post p.133 #2649:
Ah, those carless days just postwar, when this often happened after you'd said 'goodnight' on her doorstep !
Whew ! - enjoy your leave. Walter - with all that lovely dosh in the bank !
Danny.
...These were in a shocking state and looked as though they had contained a horde of wild pigs...
...I found a job with the office staff typing...
...with determination we were able to prise apart the bars of one window, large enough for us to climb out, up the side of the concreted, moat-like surround and merge with some passers-by in the street. We were then soon on our way westwards....
...gave us their beds in a commandeered German home...
...What made no sense at all, was that they were also to leave the pilots with us for the rest of the night after they got back after midnight. (They'd only need a 15 cwt truck to pick them all up, and it was only a two-mile trip back to their bashas in Chittagong.....Why ?) And we had no spare accomodation - we'd have to "double-bunk"; there was only one charpoy per head. People would have to sleep on the floor.
To cut a long story short, after a short struggle with my conscience, noblesse oblige-d; my chap could have my de-luxe DIY bed (Mk.2); I would kip on the woven palm matting floor. The bearer made up my bed for the stranger, I found a spare mossie net, wrapped it round me and settled down, trying not to think of the "long-leggity beasties" of the night.
My houseguest came in about 0100, and lit the hurricane lamp. "How did you get on?".........."I gave Akyab a 'jao' - Akyab gave me a 'jao' ". I deduced that there had been an inconclusive exchange of fire, but little more. He was very grateful for the bed, I struggled off to sleep in a warm glow of quixotic nobility (didn't last).
To cut a long story short, after a short struggle with my conscience, noblesse oblige-d; my chap could have my de-luxe DIY bed (Mk.2); I would kip on the woven palm matting floor. The bearer made up my bed for the stranger, I found a spare mossie net, wrapped it round me and settled down, trying not to think of the "long-leggity beasties" of the night.
My houseguest came in about 0100, and lit the hurricane lamp. "How did you get on?".........."I gave Akyab a 'jao' - Akyab gave me a 'jao' ". I deduced that there had been an inconclusive exchange of fire, but little more. He was very grateful for the bed, I struggled off to sleep in a warm glow of quixotic nobility (didn't last).
...Those Yankee boys certainly treated us well. We had an orange, cereal with milk, eggs, bacon, white bread and butter and coffee for breakfast. A prisoner's dream of home!..
...the Colonel promised us that we would be on our way home the next day.,,
...I said, "I'm a Flying Officer." "Blimey", he replied, "you nearly made yourself an Air Commodore, didn’t you?"...
...Now a F/O's rank braid is 5/16 in wide. An Indian braid weaver somewhere made a mistake, and set up his loom for 7/16. They ran off a hundred yards or so before the error was discovered. No use good stuff going to waste. Put it on the market, don't suppose it will make much difference to the customer.
They were right ! Our friend appeared with a pair of these massive stripes on his shoulders. He was mockingly congratulated on his promotion to Air Commodore. His cuffs soon joined the pretty wings in the bin, to general amusement. Luckily he was a resilient character, and endured the ribbing with good grace...
They were right ! Our friend appeared with a pair of these massive stripes on his shoulders. He was mockingly congratulated on his promotion to Air Commodore. His cuffs soon joined the pretty wings in the bin, to general amusement. Luckily he was a resilient character, and endured the ribbing with good grace...
...missed the last tram back, and had to walk all the way...
Whew ! - enjoy your leave. Walter - with all that lovely dosh in the bank !
Danny.
Getting PoWs to work on sensitive installations such as railways has always struck me as a brave thing to do. Was there any sabotage that you were aware of?
!!
In the great tradition of wandering hither and thither with this greatest of threads, I came across this post on YouTube. It is a talk about the Vultee Aircraft Company, including the Vengeance of course. Yours to dissect with your usual precision, Danny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up2HsAh4PXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up2HsAh4PXw
Last edited by Chugalug2; 18th Aug 2016 at 12:50. Reason: Oops! Wrong link!
sua cuique voluptas
John Magee's Poem - read by pilots military & civilian
From the BBC website :-
Pilots' poem read by aviators - BBC News
Inspirational, after all these years.
Ripline
Pilots' poem read by aviators - BBC News
Inspirational, after all these years.
Ripline
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Chugalug,
Thanks for the video ! We've been here before - text of my p.366 #7302 copied below for info:
and #7304:
[/QUOTE]
Will have another look now to see if I can find owt else.
Danny.
Thanks for the video ! We've been here before - text of my p.366 #7302 copied below for info:
Chugalug,
Reverting to the 8 (IAF) Sqn YouTube, here are some general comments which apply as far as 2.50 into the 6.14 of it.
1. What on Earth has this to do with an "Australian War Memorial FO 2561" ? The material has almost certainly come originally from Bharat Rakshak website: they have a lot about 8 Sqn in it.
2. Where and when was this taken ? There are no white faces, we "pressed men" from the four RAF Sqns don't appear anywhere. My guess is at their last station before we teamed up with them in Chaara, W. Bengal (24.8.43. in my log, although I didn't fly with them (non-op) until 29.11.43 - you'll recall that we were busy on the ground, settling-in, then compass-swinging and belting-up in that month).
It doesn't look anything like Peshawar (had the VV OTU even started up yet ?) Bt-Rk says they were at Paphamau (Allahabad), in Uttar Pradesh. This is approx 500 mi NE from Calcutta, and a further 400 mi NE to Delhi. I have never known such a huge open landing area as appears here, certainly not in W. or E. Bengal (now Bangladesh) or in Burma.
It is certainly all training in these first few minutes, the only bomb (500lb) looks funny (more later), some a/c have 250lb racks underwing but no bombs, (they would have been about 1,000 milles away from the action in any case). Nor are there any 11½ lb (training) bombracks.
The devil is in the detail ! Enough for now ! More soon.
Cheers, Danny...
Reverting to the 8 (IAF) Sqn YouTube, here are some general comments which apply as far as 2.50 into the 6.14 of it.
1. What on Earth has this to do with an "Australian War Memorial FO 2561" ? The material has almost certainly come originally from Bharat Rakshak website: they have a lot about 8 Sqn in it.
2. Where and when was this taken ? There are no white faces, we "pressed men" from the four RAF Sqns don't appear anywhere. My guess is at their last station before we teamed up with them in Chaara, W. Bengal (24.8.43. in my log, although I didn't fly with them (non-op) until 29.11.43 - you'll recall that we were busy on the ground, settling-in, then compass-swinging and belting-up in that month).
It doesn't look anything like Peshawar (had the VV OTU even started up yet ?) Bt-Rk says they were at Paphamau (Allahabad), in Uttar Pradesh. This is approx 500 mi NE from Calcutta, and a further 400 mi NE to Delhi. I have never known such a huge open landing area as appears here, certainly not in W. or E. Bengal (now Bangladesh) or in Burma.
It is certainly all training in these first few minutes, the only bomb (500lb) looks funny (more later), some a/c have 250lb racks underwing but no bombs, (they would have been about 1,000 milles away from the action in any case). Nor are there any 11½ lb (training) bombracks.
The devil is in the detail ! Enough for now ! More soon.
Cheers, Danny...
...Armourer ? We have need of thee !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: This link was Posted on "EZ999" Thread by Chugalug, to whom we all owe our thanks for it.
New readers, this is what we're talking about here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RqlK1d1_k
D.
------------------------------------------------------
Chugalug,
Now from the general to the particular:
0.21
What are these two armourers doing on the wing ? - all they seem to have is a length of empty cottton ammo belting - and in any case we used spring steel clips, not cotton belts ? (as I know to my cost !)
0.22
At first glance, looks like a single gun, and I thought "0.50" for a moment or two, before realising that it's far too small - of course we're looking side-on at a twin 0.303 (you can just see the flash eliminators on the ends - all our guns had them, but I don't think any of the 0.300s did).
But why is this chap stripping his gun down in situ, instead of taking it to the Armoury and putting it on the bench ? (for surely you had to take the block out first to remove the barrel ?) I should know, but at ITW I only had a obsolete Vickers "K" gun to take to bits, and then try to put together again. I never even saw a Browning, as they were all needed in service.
And in practice we left all that side of the business to our AGs and the Armourers. All we had to worry about was: would it fire when we pressed the button, or not ? We just flew the aeroplane - and that could be trouble enough.
Are there any (ex) Armourers in the House ? Please come in !
0.37
Now we're really confused. This 500lb GP bomb clearly has the tail twin wing "butterfly" on the end (look in the cylindrical "fin" - btw, these sheet metal "click-on" fins came in a strong fibre- board protective container, which in turn became a potential bar stool). They were only put on the bomb itself at the last moment before bombing-up.
But the "butterfly" was the safety device for the tail fuse (on release, the airflow would spin them away off their loose thread and render the fuse "live" by exposing the detonator). Therefore the tail fuse is in this bomb. These little bits of light metal sometimes speared into the lower wing surface or the flaps after release - no problem, but a nuisance to the riggers, who had to dig them out and patch the little shallow holes they left.
Now look at the nose. There should be either a ring-bolt in (for handling in transit). Or, before use, this is removed, the nose fuse goes in and made safe by another loosely screwed-on cap which has angled vanes machined round the rim, this works the same way as the tail, once off the firing pin and the detonator are in business.
So what have we here ? There's no vaned cap - it's just a plug with what looks like a screwdriver slot in it for removal (look at your car battery). So there's no fuse in the nose ! Make sense of that if you can.
You'll all be pleased to know that there is still more on this bomb to come, but this is enough for one Post.
Cheers, Danny.
PS: pzu,
Around teatime daughter came in, said, "Dad", there's a Spitfire just flying overhead".
It so happened that a few seconds earlier something very fast and powerful had come out of the N. York Moors LL area, and was climbing northbound in reheat, so that Danny Mansion was shaking. (This used to happen a lot, but less frequently in recent days).
"Rubbish", said Daddy, "that's no Spitfire ! - that's a chap in a jet, giving it the welly".
Ah, well. You can't win 'em all (we don't take the Gazette).
Thanks for the "Head-Up" just the same !
D....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: This link was Posted on "EZ999" Thread by Chugalug, to whom we all owe our thanks for it.
New readers, this is what we're talking about here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RqlK1d1_k
D.
------------------------------------------------------
Chugalug,
Now from the general to the particular:
0.21
What are these two armourers doing on the wing ? - all they seem to have is a length of empty cottton ammo belting - and in any case we used spring steel clips, not cotton belts ? (as I know to my cost !)
0.22
At first glance, looks like a single gun, and I thought "0.50" for a moment or two, before realising that it's far too small - of course we're looking side-on at a twin 0.303 (you can just see the flash eliminators on the ends - all our guns had them, but I don't think any of the 0.300s did).
But why is this chap stripping his gun down in situ, instead of taking it to the Armoury and putting it on the bench ? (for surely you had to take the block out first to remove the barrel ?) I should know, but at ITW I only had a obsolete Vickers "K" gun to take to bits, and then try to put together again. I never even saw a Browning, as they were all needed in service.
And in practice we left all that side of the business to our AGs and the Armourers. All we had to worry about was: would it fire when we pressed the button, or not ? We just flew the aeroplane - and that could be trouble enough.
Are there any (ex) Armourers in the House ? Please come in !
0.37
Now we're really confused. This 500lb GP bomb clearly has the tail twin wing "butterfly" on the end (look in the cylindrical "fin" - btw, these sheet metal "click-on" fins came in a strong fibre- board protective container, which in turn became a potential bar stool). They were only put on the bomb itself at the last moment before bombing-up.
But the "butterfly" was the safety device for the tail fuse (on release, the airflow would spin them away off their loose thread and render the fuse "live" by exposing the detonator). Therefore the tail fuse is in this bomb. These little bits of light metal sometimes speared into the lower wing surface or the flaps after release - no problem, but a nuisance to the riggers, who had to dig them out and patch the little shallow holes they left.
Now look at the nose. There should be either a ring-bolt in (for handling in transit). Or, before use, this is removed, the nose fuse goes in and made safe by another loosely screwed-on cap which has angled vanes machined round the rim, this works the same way as the tail, once off the firing pin and the detonator are in business.
So what have we here ? There's no vaned cap - it's just a plug with what looks like a screwdriver slot in it for removal (look at your car battery). So there's no fuse in the nose ! Make sense of that if you can.
You'll all be pleased to know that there is still more on this bomb to come, but this is enough for one Post.
Cheers, Danny.
PS: pzu,
Around teatime daughter came in, said, "Dad", there's a Spitfire just flying overhead".
It so happened that a few seconds earlier something very fast and powerful had come out of the N. York Moors LL area, and was climbing northbound in reheat, so that Danny Mansion was shaking. (This used to happen a lot, but less frequently in recent days).
"Rubbish", said Daddy, "that's no Spitfire ! - that's a chap in a jet, giving it the welly".
Ah, well. You can't win 'em all (we don't take the Gazette).
Thanks for the "Head-Up" just the same !
D....
Will have another look now to see if I can find owt else.
Danny.
Danny, Mea Culpa! I stupidly posted the same link as on the VV thread instead of the one of the Vultee presentation. Duly amended. Backs grovelingly towards door and beats hasty retreat...
I apologise, I thought Walter 603 had finished. However I will continue.
On the Monday there was a strange atmosphere in the crew room. I was then summoned to the Sqn. Cdr.’s office and grilled about my instructor. He was a diving enthusiast and his car and his clothes had been found by a Welsh beach but there were no signs of him or his kit. “Was he behaving normally?” “I think so, I hardly knew him.” “Do you think he had suicidal tendencies?” “I don’t think so. I didn’t think my flying was that bad.” A few other questions and then I started again with another instructor.
Things, as always, get better as time went on and then, in preparation for your solo flying there comes Engine Off Landings.
EOLs are where one lands the aircraft without the benefit of power much in the same way as a glide approach and land in a fixed wing except that it is a lot more sudden.
When the power ceases to a rotor in flight it slows down; very rapidly. In a short time it will decay so much that it will cease to generate lift and it, plus everything attached to it, will go ballistic. However, at minimum, i.e. flat pitch, it will autorotate much in the same way as a sycamore leaf autorotates from a tree with a comparatively slow rate of descent. To enable this to happen if one has an engine failure in a helicopter the first and most important thing to do is lower the lever to the bottom to ensure that you maintain Rrpm. You will then descend at a reasonable rate of descent and the inertia in the rotor will give you sufficient energy to be able to raise the collective lever and cushion the landing to a gentle touchdown at the final stage. Practise EOLS are done on the airfield as if something goes wrong the fire engines and blood wagons are so much more convenient.
As you cross the airfield boundary one closes the throttle. Even though one is ready the Rrpm dies off somewhat but lowering the lever and flaring the aircraft back to 60 knots recovers it. As the descent starts the Rrpm will start to increase so two notches on the collective indicator will hold it nicely. It would be nice to think that one could then proceed with the practice and gently put it on the ground; but not with the Sycamore.
As I mentioned before raising the lever has a cam that opens the throttle. To allow this to happen would negate the whole practise because the engine would burst into life on the touchdown. It follows that the engine has to be shut down. Before this happens the engine must be run at 1,200 rpm to even the cylinder temperatures so this is done for a few seconds before the slow running cut-out is pulled. It is then very quiet; except for the swish of the rotor blades around you.
At about 100 feet one flares again and holds it until the forward speed is Zero and the rate of descent is minimal. It then descends vertically and as the ground starts to swallow you up one raises the lever to its full extent to cushion to a gentle touchdown. There is, however, one precaution to take.
The under carriage on the Sycamore is hinged laterally and there is no fore and aft movement. Should one land with no forward speed the wheels will splay outwards and at the best roll off the tyres. At worst only one leg will splay and the aircraft will lurch to one side with a decaying rotor with little or no control over it. Therefore it is essential to put a little bit of forward speed on just before touchdown.
I mentioned the performance with the droop stops before shutdown. With the engine shut down there are no getouts after an EOL so the first priority is to get the engine started again before the rotor gets anywhere near stopping. Once that is done one can relax.
I will now confess to a sin so that when I reach the Pearly Gates St. Peter can’t nail me for anything.
Solo engine offs on the Sycamore were not allowed to be undertaken by students so all the engine off landings were dual. It was a very critical manoeuvre and so the instructor would be closely monitoring it to the extent that his hands would be lightly touching the controls. I will admit that I never did an engine off landing in a Sycamore. The instructor was monitoring so closely that I would relax and let him do it for me and then he would congratulate me for doing a good one.
There; that’s off my chest.
There was a take off technique that I believe is unique to the Sycamore known as the Jump Take Off. This would be used when there was insufficient power for it to hover (anytime). The procedure was to sit on the ground and wind the Rrpm to max permissible. (260?) The lever would be raised and the throttle opened to maximum. This would cause the aircraft to ‘jump’ into the air but as there was insufficient power to hover the Rrpm would start to decay. When airborne one would ease the aircraft forward in such a way that transitional lift would kick in and then you could use the airspeed to keep the aircraft airborne whilst you recovered the engine and Rrpm.
Two weeks and eight hours dual later I was considered a suitable risk to be sent off by myself. The usual diet of circuits, navexs and practice autorotations. Then came the instrument flying stage.
The big difference between instrument flying in a fixed wing aircraft and a helicopter is that the former is inherently stable inasmuch as it will stay on a trimmed path through the void without too much divergence if you leave it by itself. Helicopters are the opposite. Without electronic stabilising the will very rapidly develop suicidal tendencies and send itself, and you, to oblivion. To avoid this it must be flown with a constant state of awareness and anticipation. When one flies straight and level every twitch from the ideal must be instantly corrected before it becomes untidy and progressively more difficult to correct. Just to make things even more difficult they are slower and so therefore have greater penalties of drift and groundspeed when flying procedures. With practice one can fly comfortably within Green Card limits but one has to work at it. The Sycamore had the old Blue/Amber instrument practice system. This is where the forward cockpit windows were screened with amber transparencies. The pilot practising wore blue goggles. Blue and amber make black so he could not see outside but could read the instruments whereas the safety pilot could see the rest of the World in amber.
One of the biggest differences is the Instrument Take Off.
On fixed wing it was a case of lining up, noting the runway heading, opening the throttle and maintaining that heading come what may until there was sufficient airspeed to get airborne. One would be blissfully ignorant of the mainwheels whizzing by the drainage gravel at the side of the runway by a few inches. The military helicopter, not the civil procedure, was to point the aircraft into wind and come to the hover. You would then raise the lever and climb vertically into the air. Your eyes would be fixed on the Artificial Horizon so as to ensure the aircraft climbs in the hover attitude with the heading being maintained with the pedals. When the altimeter starts moving the attitude is moved to 10 degrees nose down and one waits. There will be a pause with only the altimeter feebly struggling around the dial and then there will be the shake and rattle & roll of transitional lift. This is a good sign, things are going well. Almost immediately the ASI will start to indicate and in no time you are in a position to actually control what the aircraft is doing.
There was little IF on the Sycamore, just two forty minute trips both incorporating a GCA at Sleap. There was little point because any serious IF was to be flown on the Whirlwind Mk10.
On the Monday there was a strange atmosphere in the crew room. I was then summoned to the Sqn. Cdr.’s office and grilled about my instructor. He was a diving enthusiast and his car and his clothes had been found by a Welsh beach but there were no signs of him or his kit. “Was he behaving normally?” “I think so, I hardly knew him.” “Do you think he had suicidal tendencies?” “I don’t think so. I didn’t think my flying was that bad.” A few other questions and then I started again with another instructor.
Things, as always, get better as time went on and then, in preparation for your solo flying there comes Engine Off Landings.
EOLs are where one lands the aircraft without the benefit of power much in the same way as a glide approach and land in a fixed wing except that it is a lot more sudden.
When the power ceases to a rotor in flight it slows down; very rapidly. In a short time it will decay so much that it will cease to generate lift and it, plus everything attached to it, will go ballistic. However, at minimum, i.e. flat pitch, it will autorotate much in the same way as a sycamore leaf autorotates from a tree with a comparatively slow rate of descent. To enable this to happen if one has an engine failure in a helicopter the first and most important thing to do is lower the lever to the bottom to ensure that you maintain Rrpm. You will then descend at a reasonable rate of descent and the inertia in the rotor will give you sufficient energy to be able to raise the collective lever and cushion the landing to a gentle touchdown at the final stage. Practise EOLS are done on the airfield as if something goes wrong the fire engines and blood wagons are so much more convenient.
As you cross the airfield boundary one closes the throttle. Even though one is ready the Rrpm dies off somewhat but lowering the lever and flaring the aircraft back to 60 knots recovers it. As the descent starts the Rrpm will start to increase so two notches on the collective indicator will hold it nicely. It would be nice to think that one could then proceed with the practice and gently put it on the ground; but not with the Sycamore.
As I mentioned before raising the lever has a cam that opens the throttle. To allow this to happen would negate the whole practise because the engine would burst into life on the touchdown. It follows that the engine has to be shut down. Before this happens the engine must be run at 1,200 rpm to even the cylinder temperatures so this is done for a few seconds before the slow running cut-out is pulled. It is then very quiet; except for the swish of the rotor blades around you.
At about 100 feet one flares again and holds it until the forward speed is Zero and the rate of descent is minimal. It then descends vertically and as the ground starts to swallow you up one raises the lever to its full extent to cushion to a gentle touchdown. There is, however, one precaution to take.
The under carriage on the Sycamore is hinged laterally and there is no fore and aft movement. Should one land with no forward speed the wheels will splay outwards and at the best roll off the tyres. At worst only one leg will splay and the aircraft will lurch to one side with a decaying rotor with little or no control over it. Therefore it is essential to put a little bit of forward speed on just before touchdown.
I mentioned the performance with the droop stops before shutdown. With the engine shut down there are no getouts after an EOL so the first priority is to get the engine started again before the rotor gets anywhere near stopping. Once that is done one can relax.
I will now confess to a sin so that when I reach the Pearly Gates St. Peter can’t nail me for anything.
Solo engine offs on the Sycamore were not allowed to be undertaken by students so all the engine off landings were dual. It was a very critical manoeuvre and so the instructor would be closely monitoring it to the extent that his hands would be lightly touching the controls. I will admit that I never did an engine off landing in a Sycamore. The instructor was monitoring so closely that I would relax and let him do it for me and then he would congratulate me for doing a good one.
There; that’s off my chest.
There was a take off technique that I believe is unique to the Sycamore known as the Jump Take Off. This would be used when there was insufficient power for it to hover (anytime). The procedure was to sit on the ground and wind the Rrpm to max permissible. (260?) The lever would be raised and the throttle opened to maximum. This would cause the aircraft to ‘jump’ into the air but as there was insufficient power to hover the Rrpm would start to decay. When airborne one would ease the aircraft forward in such a way that transitional lift would kick in and then you could use the airspeed to keep the aircraft airborne whilst you recovered the engine and Rrpm.
Two weeks and eight hours dual later I was considered a suitable risk to be sent off by myself. The usual diet of circuits, navexs and practice autorotations. Then came the instrument flying stage.
The big difference between instrument flying in a fixed wing aircraft and a helicopter is that the former is inherently stable inasmuch as it will stay on a trimmed path through the void without too much divergence if you leave it by itself. Helicopters are the opposite. Without electronic stabilising the will very rapidly develop suicidal tendencies and send itself, and you, to oblivion. To avoid this it must be flown with a constant state of awareness and anticipation. When one flies straight and level every twitch from the ideal must be instantly corrected before it becomes untidy and progressively more difficult to correct. Just to make things even more difficult they are slower and so therefore have greater penalties of drift and groundspeed when flying procedures. With practice one can fly comfortably within Green Card limits but one has to work at it. The Sycamore had the old Blue/Amber instrument practice system. This is where the forward cockpit windows were screened with amber transparencies. The pilot practising wore blue goggles. Blue and amber make black so he could not see outside but could read the instruments whereas the safety pilot could see the rest of the World in amber.
One of the biggest differences is the Instrument Take Off.
On fixed wing it was a case of lining up, noting the runway heading, opening the throttle and maintaining that heading come what may until there was sufficient airspeed to get airborne. One would be blissfully ignorant of the mainwheels whizzing by the drainage gravel at the side of the runway by a few inches. The military helicopter, not the civil procedure, was to point the aircraft into wind and come to the hover. You would then raise the lever and climb vertically into the air. Your eyes would be fixed on the Artificial Horizon so as to ensure the aircraft climbs in the hover attitude with the heading being maintained with the pedals. When the altimeter starts moving the attitude is moved to 10 degrees nose down and one waits. There will be a pause with only the altimeter feebly struggling around the dial and then there will be the shake and rattle & roll of transitional lift. This is a good sign, things are going well. Almost immediately the ASI will start to indicate and in no time you are in a position to actually control what the aircraft is doing.
There was little IF on the Sycamore, just two forty minute trips both incorporating a GCA at Sleap. There was little point because any serious IF was to be flown on the Whirlwind Mk10.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Fareastdriver,
Very interesting ! All you say confirms my belief the helicopters are fundamentally "Agin' Nature", and I'm very glad that I had nothing to do with them. But, fair's fair, every man to his own taste, funny old world if we were all alike, I suppose.
And had not the whims of the Most High chosen you for this task, we should have lost all those wonderful stories you have written here about your times in the land where all foreigners are considered devils, they have 100-year old eggs, and all the Susie Wongs wear the cheong-sam !
Very interesting ! All you say confirms my belief the helicopters are fundamentally "Agin' Nature", and I'm very glad that I had nothing to do with them. But, fair's fair, every man to his own taste, funny old world if we were all alike, I suppose.
And had not the whims of the Most High chosen you for this task, we should have lost all those wonderful stories you have written here about your times in the land where all foreigners are considered devils, they have 100-year old eggs, and all the Susie Wongs wear the cheong-sam !
ps as a helicopter driver I am with you when standing above the comments from those who believe in running up and down runways to get airborne
