Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
OSLF,
My father didn't say where the spraying took place, or if he did I cannot remember. The squadron was there for exercises and thought it appropriate to attack at an unexpected time, such as the Special Bull Parade in question. He said the tanks were about the size of 40gl oil drums and were held on underwing racks. That's all I know about Montrose.
Another story which may be apochryphal, yet contains some believable items:
In 1942 many runways were still being laid or lengthened to handle the four-engined fleets now rapidly increasing. With most young Britons conscripted, an army of Irish labourers crossed from neutral Ireland.
The work did not always run smoothly and the workers sometimes went on strike for more money, as indeed did the dockers. The aircrews, nightly risking their lives over Germany, were not in general agreement with these workers' rights. It was therefore rather unwise of a group of striking workers to inform a couple of crews that civil engineering was strenuous and deserved extra payment, while some had an easy life flying about in aeroplanes. It was even more unwise to express such views to Canadian aircrew.
As my father heard the story, the crews kidnapped the foreman and possibly one of his workmates as they left the pub that night and held them captive the next day, while their base was locked down before operations. The hapless foreman was taken to the Ruhr and, fortunately, back again. He did not enjoy his flight, still less the extra ventilation which appeared beside him, and of course raised a great commotion after he was dropped from a Hillman utility somewhere across the airfield.
The culprits did not return from operations a few days later, and the inquiry was quietly dropped. The story did not say if the airfield works were completed.
My father didn't say where the spraying took place, or if he did I cannot remember. The squadron was there for exercises and thought it appropriate to attack at an unexpected time, such as the Special Bull Parade in question. He said the tanks were about the size of 40gl oil drums and were held on underwing racks. That's all I know about Montrose.
Another story which may be apochryphal, yet contains some believable items:
In 1942 many runways were still being laid or lengthened to handle the four-engined fleets now rapidly increasing. With most young Britons conscripted, an army of Irish labourers crossed from neutral Ireland.
The work did not always run smoothly and the workers sometimes went on strike for more money, as indeed did the dockers. The aircrews, nightly risking their lives over Germany, were not in general agreement with these workers' rights. It was therefore rather unwise of a group of striking workers to inform a couple of crews that civil engineering was strenuous and deserved extra payment, while some had an easy life flying about in aeroplanes. It was even more unwise to express such views to Canadian aircrew.
As my father heard the story, the crews kidnapped the foreman and possibly one of his workmates as they left the pub that night and held them captive the next day, while their base was locked down before operations. The hapless foreman was taken to the Ruhr and, fortunately, back again. He did not enjoy his flight, still less the extra ventilation which appeared beside him, and of course raised a great commotion after he was dropped from a Hillman utility somewhere across the airfield.
The culprits did not return from operations a few days later, and the inquiry was quietly dropped. The story did not say if the airfield works were completed.
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OffshoreSLF
In a book named the Devil Take the Hindmost by Denis Peto-Shepherd, he mentions that after leaving RAF South Cerney in 1942 where my father was his Flight Commander he was sent to No 2 C.F.S Montrose the selfsame school at which he trained as a Flying Instructor at Cranwell ,now removed to Montrose .
In a book named the Devil Take the Hindmost by Denis Peto-Shepherd, he mentions that after leaving RAF South Cerney in 1942 where my father was his Flight Commander he was sent to No 2 C.F.S Montrose the selfsame school at which he trained as a Flying Instructor at Cranwell ,now removed to Montrose .
Last edited by millerscourt; 8th Apr 2013 at 16:51.
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Yellow Stuff in 40 Gal Drums.
Geriaviator,
Your #3670 refers. I don't think real Mustard gas came in 40 gal drums - 65lb tins were the biggest I saw. I would think it was some harmless stuff (Coleman's mustard?), mixed in water, that was sprayed on the Pongoes, to give them the general idea.........D.
To All it May Concern
Danny42C's Laptop has gone well and truly u/s; am struggling with 12 year old laptop discarded by daughter years ago. Although I can chip in like this, cannot transfer stuff from flash drive TFN. The rest of you will have to keep the pot bubbling until I can sort it out.
Danny42C
Your #3670 refers. I don't think real Mustard gas came in 40 gal drums - 65lb tins were the biggest I saw. I would think it was some harmless stuff (Coleman's mustard?), mixed in water, that was sprayed on the Pongoes, to give them the general idea.........D.
To All it May Concern
Danny42C's Laptop has gone well and truly u/s; am struggling with 12 year old laptop discarded by daughter years ago. Although I can chip in like this, cannot transfer stuff from flash drive TFN. The rest of you will have to keep the pot bubbling until I can sort it out.
Danny42C
Last edited by Danny42C; 8th Apr 2013 at 20:08. Reason: Correct Error
Stick your flash drive into your daughter's up to date computer. Email it to her old one and copy it to 'my documents'. Then, when you go to the reply page on this thread copy it onto the pane.
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Geoff Wright - pilot training - WW2 -People at War
I spent nearly four years in the RAF starting as PNB, Lords, RAF Brough, 11
ITW Scarborough.101 Squadron Ludford Magna, Leconfield. etc then Heaton Park three times before I eventually sailed for Egypt then to Bulawayo via Heliopolis in a Dakota. Then Chipmunks and Harvards until the atom bomb dropped after 150 hours of training. Sent home without our wings.
My story can be found in on the BBC site People at War, Geoff Wright, pilot training, Parts 1 to 5
ITW Scarborough.101 Squadron Ludford Magna, Leconfield. etc then Heaton Park three times before I eventually sailed for Egypt then to Bulawayo via Heliopolis in a Dakota. Then Chipmunks and Harvards until the atom bomb dropped after 150 hours of training. Sent home without our wings.
My story can be found in on the BBC site People at War, Geoff Wright, pilot training, Parts 1 to 5
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Danny tells A Tale of Two Incidents.
Fareastdriver,
It works ! Thanks a lot ! Danny.
****************************
I must now tell you a heart-warming (and heart-rending) story of some Good News and some Bad News (the Good News first).
It must have been some time after September '52. We were slowly sipping our ersatz coffee after lunch in the anteroom, and I was desperate for something to read. All the more interesting publications had already been "bagged", someone had got the D.T. and was vainly trying the crossword. Lonely and neglected, the "London Gazette" gathered dust at the back of the magazine rack. It was better than nothing.
As we all know, the pages of this Official Publication are never turned except on the twice-yearly Feasts of the Passover, and even then without hope or expectation. The Mess resounds with anguished cries of "Oh, NO !", and "What, HIM ?" and similar outbursts of incredulous horror ("Squadron Leader ? ? - he couldn't lead the pigeons round Trafalgar Square !"), as we read of the good fortune of our erstwhile comrades.
But this was mid-term, and it was hardly worth turning the cover. I riffled idly down a table of newly hatched Flight Lieutenants - and a name jumped out. "Mike, your Flight Lieutenant's come through !" It was the first Mike had heard of it (it was so in those days). Jubilation and congratulations all round ! Good old Mike ! Beer's on Mike tonight !
The sudden influx of wealth would make it possible for Mike to take a step up the ladder of Old Bangers which we penniless Junior Officers had to use for transport. Mike ran a mid-thirties Austin Seven, the famous and well loved "Baby Austin". This was about at the bottom of the pile, a position which it shared with the old "Y" model Ford Eights. It was the subject of many a merry quip and jest, as it was very snug inside (What is a gentleman ? - A man who can change gear in a Baby Austin without getting his face slapped !)
In order to move up the ladder, Mike wanted best price for his "Seven", but there were no takers among his friends (who all knew the car). He was forced onto the commercial market, no luck there either, and he was at last reduced to a place little more than a scrapyard. The Man sucked his teeth: "Ten Pounds". "What !" cried Mike, affronted, "Only ten pounds for this beautiful little car ? I should think not" (or words to that effect). He'd left the car ticking-over, both to demonstrate that it would tick-over, and that there wasn't too much smoke coming out the back end, (and in case it might not restart) . Now he leapt back in, with the intention of making a Le Mans getaway to show The Man what he had so unwisely scorned.
The clutch on the "Seven" was very fierce - about the thickness of a cigarette paper between all-in and all-out. Mike overdid it. "Bang" went a half-shaft. The car rolled about three feet. "Five quid now " said The Man. Poor Mike had to take it, and trudge to the nearest bus stop.
I trust Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Beavis, KCB CBE AFC, is enjoying his retirement, and (as I know, for I ran into Dave Brown a few years since) has not forgotten his humble friends of long ago, and does not mind me retelling his story.
Back with you again. Goodnight, chaps,
Danny42C.
You never know.
It works ! Thanks a lot ! Danny.
****************************
I must now tell you a heart-warming (and heart-rending) story of some Good News and some Bad News (the Good News first).
It must have been some time after September '52. We were slowly sipping our ersatz coffee after lunch in the anteroom, and I was desperate for something to read. All the more interesting publications had already been "bagged", someone had got the D.T. and was vainly trying the crossword. Lonely and neglected, the "London Gazette" gathered dust at the back of the magazine rack. It was better than nothing.
As we all know, the pages of this Official Publication are never turned except on the twice-yearly Feasts of the Passover, and even then without hope or expectation. The Mess resounds with anguished cries of "Oh, NO !", and "What, HIM ?" and similar outbursts of incredulous horror ("Squadron Leader ? ? - he couldn't lead the pigeons round Trafalgar Square !"), as we read of the good fortune of our erstwhile comrades.
But this was mid-term, and it was hardly worth turning the cover. I riffled idly down a table of newly hatched Flight Lieutenants - and a name jumped out. "Mike, your Flight Lieutenant's come through !" It was the first Mike had heard of it (it was so in those days). Jubilation and congratulations all round ! Good old Mike ! Beer's on Mike tonight !
The sudden influx of wealth would make it possible for Mike to take a step up the ladder of Old Bangers which we penniless Junior Officers had to use for transport. Mike ran a mid-thirties Austin Seven, the famous and well loved "Baby Austin". This was about at the bottom of the pile, a position which it shared with the old "Y" model Ford Eights. It was the subject of many a merry quip and jest, as it was very snug inside (What is a gentleman ? - A man who can change gear in a Baby Austin without getting his face slapped !)
In order to move up the ladder, Mike wanted best price for his "Seven", but there were no takers among his friends (who all knew the car). He was forced onto the commercial market, no luck there either, and he was at last reduced to a place little more than a scrapyard. The Man sucked his teeth: "Ten Pounds". "What !" cried Mike, affronted, "Only ten pounds for this beautiful little car ? I should think not" (or words to that effect). He'd left the car ticking-over, both to demonstrate that it would tick-over, and that there wasn't too much smoke coming out the back end, (and in case it might not restart) . Now he leapt back in, with the intention of making a Le Mans getaway to show The Man what he had so unwisely scorned.
The clutch on the "Seven" was very fierce - about the thickness of a cigarette paper between all-in and all-out. Mike overdid it. "Bang" went a half-shaft. The car rolled about three feet. "Five quid now " said The Man. Poor Mike had to take it, and trudge to the nearest bus stop.
I trust Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Beavis, KCB CBE AFC, is enjoying his retirement, and (as I know, for I ran into Dave Brown a few years since) has not forgotten his humble friends of long ago, and does not mind me retelling his story.
Back with you again. Goodnight, chaps,
Danny42C.
You never know.
How better to demonstrate Fareastdriver's computer workaround ? Well done Danny, and thank you for yet another superb story 
My story can be found in on the BBC site People at War, Geoff Wright, pilot training, Parts 1 to 5
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Use this search (without the quotes) "Geoff Wright site: bbc.co.uk/history". You are right, archiving of the BBC at war section is appalling. The "site" command forces google to do what the BBC have failed to achieve.
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This should get you there -
BBC - WW2 People's War - Part 1 RAF Pilot Training - Geoff Wright UK
BBC - WW2 People's War - Part 1 RAF Pilot Training - Geoff Wright UK
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Geoff Wright
Welcome aboard Geoff; I read your story on the BBC site a couple of years ago when I was researching aircrew training at ACRC and ITW. Do you recall much of your early training?.
One thing that has bugged me is that some stories mention performing guard duty whilst at RAF Regent's Park and it made me wonder what they were guarding.
I have been assured that there was not a "perimeter" fence around RAF Regent's Park so I can only assume they were guarding individual buildings / stores etc. Do you have any thoughts on / recollections of this ..... or any other stories relating to your early training?
Regards
Pete
One thing that has bugged me is that some stories mention performing guard duty whilst at RAF Regent's Park and it made me wonder what they were guarding.
I have been assured that there was not a "perimeter" fence around RAF Regent's Park so I can only assume they were guarding individual buildings / stores etc. Do you have any thoughts on / recollections of this ..... or any other stories relating to your early training?
Regards
Pete
Geoff
It's an interesting read, and, one that would sit well on these pages. Should you feel able to post your story on this thread, serialised as in the BBC thread, I'm sure many of us avid followers would appreciate it. I'm sure the mods are more than amenable to more historical input, and, I bet Danny42C (current OC) would approve.
Smudge
It's an interesting read, and, one that would sit well on these pages. Should you feel able to post your story on this thread, serialised as in the BBC thread, I'm sure many of us avid followers would appreciate it. I'm sure the mods are more than amenable to more historical input, and, I bet Danny42C (current OC) would approve.
Smudge
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Come one, come all.
Geriaviator,
Ref your #3670, I was told at the time of the Battle of Britain that the labourers working on the airfield construction were being paid more than a Pilot Officer fighting the battle. Don't know if it's true.
D.
Smudge,
Danny heartily approves ! (but you do me too much honour - I'm not the O.C. - just one of the lads).
D.
Cheers to you both, Danny.
Ref your #3670, I was told at the time of the Battle of Britain that the labourers working on the airfield construction were being paid more than a Pilot Officer fighting the battle. Don't know if it's true.
D.
Smudge,
Danny heartily approves ! (but you do me too much honour - I'm not the O.C. - just one of the lads).
D.
Cheers to you both, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 11th Apr 2013 at 23:50. Reason: Add material.
I was told at the time of the Battle of Britain that the labourers working on the airfield construction were being paid more than a Pilot
A matter of seniority
Danny
You are without doubt our senior officer, please don't mind if we consider you as OC as well ... you're certainly kingpin of the thread. (Remember kingpins? They formed the stub axle pivot and when they became worn the front wheels became knock-kneed and the steering became even more vague. Those on our 1948 Austin 16 required lubrication with gear oil (definitely NOT grease) every 500 miles!
I think you are correct about the labourers' pay as this was the reason for the aircrew taking such exception. My father recalled that some of them would idle all day in order to obtain weekend overtime. No extra pay for the crews, of course, even if they survived to collect it.
You are without doubt our senior officer, please don't mind if we consider you as OC as well ... you're certainly kingpin of the thread. (Remember kingpins? They formed the stub axle pivot and when they became worn the front wheels became knock-kneed and the steering became even more vague. Those on our 1948 Austin 16 required lubrication with gear oil (definitely NOT grease) every 500 miles!
I think you are correct about the labourers' pay as this was the reason for the aircrew taking such exception. My father recalled that some of them would idle all day in order to obtain weekend overtime. No extra pay for the crews, of course, even if they survived to collect it.
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Geriaviator,
Ah, the '48 Austin 16. The RAF had them in the '50s as a rather posh Staff car (all black and glossy). We had one, but that is a tale for the future !
Heavy engine (or gear) oil was what we used to put in our grease guns when we couldn't shift the dried gunge in the bearings of our old bangers.
I must insist in retaining my humble place in the ranks. This Thread should have no prima donnas; all contributions are of equal merit in my fanciful virtual Crewroom in cyberspace !
Cheers, Danny.
Ah, the '48 Austin 16. The RAF had them in the '50s as a rather posh Staff car (all black and glossy). We had one, but that is a tale for the future !
Heavy engine (or gear) oil was what we used to put in our grease guns when we couldn't shift the dried gunge in the bearings of our old bangers.
I must insist in retaining my humble place in the ranks. This Thread should have no prima donnas; all contributions are of equal merit in my fanciful virtual Crewroom in cyberspace !
Cheers, Danny.
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I must insist in retaining my humble place in the ranks. This Thread should have no prima donnas; all contributions are of equal merit in my fanciful virtual Crewroom in cyberspace !
In that case, Danny. It's your turn to make the tea.
In that case, Danny. It's your turn to make the tea.