What are *immediately* available, cheap, and role-dedicated alternatives to Nimrod?
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Adding to Piper Alpha , you have the Hercules incident overland in Blair Atholl , Crazy people floating round the world in Balloons and falling into the water. The X amount of SAR shouts for foreign fisherman and the recent London bombings.
You have to have an aircraft with many capabilities and such diverse scenarios but agree training crews (if you have a multi crew AC for such specialised jobs)
I dont think there is anything that can at moment
You have to have an aircraft with many capabilities and such diverse scenarios but agree training crews (if you have a multi crew AC for such specialised jobs)
I dont think there is anything that can at moment
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Bring back the Dak........
Diamonds are in the poo at the moment and have shut down production of the aircraft mentioned due to Thierlets on going problems, the engine is pants and has major life and reliablity issues they actually used to replace it with another engine at 1000 hrs under warranty because it would not reach its 2000 life..... I know of some with the engines changed at under 300 hrs, that's going back to the Mig 29 days for reliability.
Diamond were so concerned they have produced their own engine for them that should hit the market towards the end of the year, that reduces the payload a bit but ups the top end. All warranties on pre bankruptcy engines have had there warranties cancelled by Thierlet apparently............ not a good time to own a DA 42...... and as for the poor owners of the Cessna 340 twins that did the mods to go over to Thierlet diesels, well they had to saw off the engine bearers to fit the new engine, so no going back for those poor sods.......
P.S There is a Serviceable Shack that requires its spars doing, currently languishing in a Museum in the USA that has just reflown of late......
Diamonds are in the poo at the moment and have shut down production of the aircraft mentioned due to Thierlets on going problems, the engine is pants and has major life and reliablity issues they actually used to replace it with another engine at 1000 hrs under warranty because it would not reach its 2000 life..... I know of some with the engines changed at under 300 hrs, that's going back to the Mig 29 days for reliability.
Diamond were so concerned they have produced their own engine for them that should hit the market towards the end of the year, that reduces the payload a bit but ups the top end. All warranties on pre bankruptcy engines have had there warranties cancelled by Thierlet apparently............ not a good time to own a DA 42...... and as for the poor owners of the Cessna 340 twins that did the mods to go over to Thierlet diesels, well they had to saw off the engine bearers to fit the new engine, so no going back for those poor sods.......
P.S There is a Serviceable Shack that requires its spars doing, currently languishing in a Museum in the USA that has just reflown of late......
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If we are on the subject of expensive single-role aircraft then why not discuss Typhoon? Because it isn't a single role aircraft, perhaps? 
Of course it is! It was procured for AD and now we are spending a fortune trying to turn it into a CAS and ground attack aircraft when there are better platforms out there already. It looks good at air shows though!
Of course it is! It was procured for AD and now we are spending a fortune trying to turn it into a CAS and ground attack aircraft when there are better platforms out there already. It looks good at air shows though!
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...Of course it is! [Typhoon] was procured for AD and now we are spending a fortune trying to turn it into a CAS and ground attack aircraft when there are better platforms out there already.
The money being spent now is to bring that capability into service earlier than planned together with a Litening pod.
Finaly, you may wish to speak to some of the Army FACs regarding their views of how effective it is in the CAS role.
Regards,
MM
Yashin,
As MM says, way before the name Typhoon was chosen (in fact, it was before 'Eurofighter 2000' was in use) it was clear that the aircraft was to be a multi-role type. Our partners were not entirely happy with this (wanting a fighter), but we inisisted, and it was written into the contract.
The supposed ' costly conversion' to an AG platform, bandied around by the likes of Max Hastings, Page, Tim Collins et al is based on a complete failure (perhaps willful) to accept/understand that the AD capability was due on line first, to be followed (originally with Tranche 2 airframes) by the AG capability. Circumstances mean that the RAF brought forward the implementation of the AG capability, although in what I'd argue was a PR blunder the term 'austere' was employed to describe this - an odd way of describing a four/six EPWII and targeting pod fit, but there you go...
As MM says, way before the name Typhoon was chosen (in fact, it was before 'Eurofighter 2000' was in use) it was clear that the aircraft was to be a multi-role type. Our partners were not entirely happy with this (wanting a fighter), but we inisisted, and it was written into the contract.
The supposed ' costly conversion' to an AG platform, bandied around by the likes of Max Hastings, Page, Tim Collins et al is based on a complete failure (perhaps willful) to accept/understand that the AD capability was due on line first, to be followed (originally with Tranche 2 airframes) by the AG capability. Circumstances mean that the RAF brought forward the implementation of the AG capability, although in what I'd argue was a PR blunder the term 'austere' was employed to describe this - an odd way of describing a four/six EPWII and targeting pod fit, but there you go...
Surely not a PR blunder, Archimedes - from the RAF??
Erm, like flying the Nimrod in the Queen's Birthday Flypast??
Incidentally, I hear that the Senior Scrambled Egg Nebby who was due to be on The Balcony with HM was concerned about what he should say if HM mentioned the Nimrod.
The general consensus was 'Duck, Ma'am'
Hat, bicycle clips, I know.....
Erm, like flying the Nimrod in the Queen's Birthday Flypast??
Incidentally, I hear that the Senior Scrambled Egg Nebby who was due to be on The Balcony with HM was concerned about what he should say if HM mentioned the Nimrod.
The general consensus was 'Duck, Ma'am'
Hat, bicycle clips, I know.....
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We don't need ASW at the moment.
Oh really?!
We don't need ASW at the moment.
Oh really?!
Where is the threat? Airborne ASW can make no realistic dent in offensive capabilities of other states armed with a submarine launched nuclear deterrent - and in any case you can't really consider them a priority threat now anyway. Iran? Well a minor threat to oil supplies from the Gulf at worst - you can bet the US will leap at any chance to nobble them if they ever even remotely threaten oil supplies - and what interest to Iran in doing that anyway?
The need we have right now is for overland surveillance and comms relay.
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Nutloose:
Yes, the Thielerts are finished. But the Austro-Engine AE-300 is now flying, giving 20% more performance for the same fuel consumption as the Thielert. EASA certification due in August, first production deliveries for October. Anyway, EASA certification irrelevant for military use. We could get ten DA42M at least for the price of one fancy KingAir and have fleets of them flying round the clock - every ISTAR patrol could have their own dedicated forward video surveillance and comms relay platform, with loiter time far longer than KingAir at a fraction of the cost. Once the current emergency is over, there is a healthy second-hand market for them for border patrols etc and in any case they are cheap enough just to mothball as a last resort. These planes are so cheap (in military budgeting terms) that they have to be worth some consideration as a stop gap solution.
Diamonds are in the poo at the moment
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Where is the threat?
Airborne ASW can make no realistic dent in offensive capabilities of other states armed with a submarine launched nuclear deterrent...
Regards,
MM
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The deterrent of SSBNs is dependent on concealing their location - wherever that may be worldwide. Airborne "defensive" ASW would just reveal their location. And anyway, there is no way that UK can afford to project ASW globally.
Whichever way you look at it, at the moment ASW is about as high priority as UFO defensive measures...
[OFF TOPIC]
Airsound
I know this is a rumour network but stop perpetuating a MYTH!! Only a tiny minority think it was a PR blunder. 
From where I stood lots of people were praise worthy of the ENTIRE flypast and NO-ONE even commented on the fact that a Nimrod was in it.
I do not wish to reignite the Nimrod debate (as there is already a topic for that) but it is time to see the involvement of the Nimrod as a tribute to those who continue to fly an operational aircraft supporting TIC in operational theatres (and if it's safe to fly there, it is safe to fly in a simple* flypast) and those who died doing the job, and those who have died before them!!!
* - by simple I don't mean that the entire QBF was simple, just that the Nimrod element was not a difficult or dangerous task.
[ON TOPIC]
Airsound
Surely not a PR blunder... like flying the Nimrod in the Queen's Birthday Flypast??
From where I stood lots of people were praise worthy of the ENTIRE flypast and NO-ONE even commented on the fact that a Nimrod was in it. I do not wish to reignite the Nimrod debate (as there is already a topic for that) but it is time to see the involvement of the Nimrod as a tribute to those who continue to fly an operational aircraft supporting TIC in operational theatres (and if it's safe to fly there, it is safe to fly in a simple* flypast) and those who died doing the job, and those who have died before them!!!
* - by simple I don't mean that the entire QBF was simple, just that the Nimrod element was not a difficult or dangerous task.
[ON TOPIC]
Surely not a PR blunder, Archimedes - from the RAF??
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Typhoon Tosh
What is it with the Typhoon protectionists? Have a go at every other platform and suggest that there are cheaper alternatives with better endurance and weapon carrying capability but god forbid if anybody ever has a go at that RAF's AirShow asset.
Ask the Army FAC about the Typhoon? When the hell have they seen it in a genuine environment. BAE Systems engineers call it the Lightning Mk2 because it has no legs, make a lot of noise and it is good for airshows.
Can I have a good weapon platform with the ability to loiter and the ability to "fully" integrate into the battlespace please!
Ask the Army FAC about the Typhoon? When the hell have they seen it in a genuine environment. BAE Systems engineers call it the Lightning Mk2 because it has no legs, make a lot of noise and it is good for airshows.
Can I have a good weapon platform with the ability to loiter and the ability to "fully" integrate into the battlespace please!
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Yashin; the British Army FACs who worked with the Typhoon at Nellis earlier this month apparently thought it was quite good (using Litening III with Rover integration), and there didn't seem to be any problem with aircraft endurance out there either - 2h sorties without tanker support. A way to go yet, but good results.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-for-raf.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-for-raf.html