Fighter jets maximum sea level speed specifications question

[Double Zero]

Late Arm Live,

Thanks for that; it was rumoured the FA2 was a little faster than the FRS1, due to the radome & lengthened fuselage, even though it didn't look the part.

The last I heard - quite possibly out of date now - C.T.P. Heinz Frick held the time to height record - for class - in GR5 ZD402 with a possibly tweaked 'big' Pegasus - rather a shame that engine wouldn't physically fit in a Seajet, but I suspect the handling qualities are a bit poor by today's standards, which is why I bleat on about AMRAAM equipped Harrier 2+ for JFH!

Regards,

DZ

[BombayDuck]

So lets cut to the quick (lol) here....in their natural operating environment, low level, clean, what was/is fastest F111/F3

I hear that if there were any Flogger pilots around, they'd want in on that debate too

[LateArmLive]

DZ,

The old GR5 never saw the benefit of the bigger engine, so it would have been the old 105 in it.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Fastest? Hmmm, The F111 that I (& Goose) overtook up the North Sea (1992 ish) was doing 750Kts. We had about 100 Kts overtake and they were Very Surprised to see us! I personally was very pleased we were right under the tanker orbit! I'd also like to thank the nice 23 Sqn chaps for letting us push to the front of the refueling que!!

Advo

[Dan4096]

RE:

Interesting discussion...

I was wondering about the 'superfighters' - the F-22, Rafale, Eurofighter, and a Sukhoi (30, 35?). How do they perform at low altitude?

[Double Zero]

LateArmLive,

The Rolls Royce trials I mentioned - I'm pretty sure it was ZD402, painted black to look sexy - were with the 1161 engine, it was quite a while ago, probably 1988/9 ish.

I believe a standard engine was refitted afterwards, as there was a major effort to prevent the 'fleets within a fleet' situation which had come up with frankly most R.A.F. aircraft, everything from hand-made panels to various avionics fits.

Unfortunately I don't have any photo's now, largely as the trials were not conducted at Dunsfold.

I'm sure there are Test Pilots or Flight Test engineers out there who can put me right.

P.S, I was having a particularly dumb moment re. IAS !

[SammySu]

DZ

You are indeed correct - it had a 408 in it and a lovely black scheme with a white cheatline and winged horse on the fin. The engine wasn't tuned up for increased perf however the production 408's are de-rated by 400lb to enhance life. Andy Sephton flew some of those record taking flights as well. Sadly all were records were claimed by the Russians with the Freestyle in 1991. Come on LM - get the F35B out!

[Safeware]

Fastest F3

I believe the fastest Tornado F3 was ZH558, GF

RIP guys

sw

[BentStick]

Fastest

Advo, The overtake created by you botching your Vertical conversion doesn't count .

I'd also hazard a guess and say the only time a Pig at sea level would be surprised to see you with 100kts of overtake was if he was in mini burner and you were burning vodka.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

BentStick,

Are you the 'Goose' of which I refer? Haven't seen you in ages mate!

Advo

PS- I suspect that 'Pig' drivers are always surprised to see someone comming in from behind, with rearwards vis like that!

[Aardvark Driver]

Max Sealevel Speed

I happened to be researching this subject when I came upon your site. I believe the term you are looking for is "Q-Limit" or the dynamic air pressure the aircraft structure is designed to withstand. Comparative information seems to be hard to find, but it appears that the F-111 and the B-1A both had Q-Limits of Mach 1.2. I can attest to the former having flown the fighter models (A & E) of the F-111 for 18 years and that included a very memorable Red Flag mission when my wingman and I "got out of Dodge" doing mach 1.2+ at 300' AGL (about 3000 MSL) and we were not in full afterburner. As for a ram jet effect at high mach, this was definitely a characteristic of the F-111. As an FCF (maintenance test flight) pilot at RAF Upper Heyford in the 1970's we always took the aircraft to max speed at high altitude out over the Irish Sea. Typically the "REDUCE SPEED" warning light (skin heating limit) would come on at mach 2.4+ but the airplane was still accelerating. We always figured it was due to a ram jet effect with the fan duct.

[stilton]

Very Interesting, so which was faster at low level, the F111, B1A or Tornado ?

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Very Interesting, so which was faster at low level, the F111, B1A or Tornado ?

On the deck the F-111 'barber pole' was at M1.2, which is near enough to 800KIAS. The jet would still be accelerating happily at that point (even with a couple of pylons and an empty practice bomb dispenser). If you were naughty and ignored the barber pole, then even the low-powered 103-engined jets could see in the order of 850. Apparently.

I've heard stories of 'F' models doing well in excess of 900, but I never flew them, so I really couldn't say.

[LowObservable]

It's very strange to read a thread, think of a comment and then read it, because you wrote it seven years ago. (Unfortunately the excellent article I linked has been vaporized.)

It does seem that the fastest low-level aircraft mostly hit an IAS-limit with thrust to spare, which usually translates as heat; and one important point in the now-disappeared article as that the limit often means "That was all the customer wanted and he didn't pay to find out what happens at higher speeds." It can also mean "something gets too hot and that voids the warranty".

The MiG-23 was fast, too: To quote John Manclark "it would accelerate until it blew up."

"We didn?t know what 90 percent of the switches did" | Ares

[Bevo]

Originally Posted by LowObservable

"We didn?t know what 90 percent of the switches did"

Well of Manclark didn't know what 90% of the switches did it's because he didn't read the flight manuals which were in English!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

If Leon shows up, he has flown low level escort in F3s with B1Bs (and I think F-111 also), so probably knows. I've certainly passed an F-111 doing 835kts in an F3 and accelerating, but do not know how hard the F-111 was trying.

It's mainly because the customer hasn't paid to find out, so dumb-ass junior pilots like yours truly get the horns out doing chasedowns, and stuff the levers top left; then get surprised when it becomes obvious that the jet isn't self-limiting.

Oops!
Still, no funny noises; so, what the heck. Turn the radio up and drive faster

[TBM-Legend]

My friend flew the F105 over 100 missions in Vietnam.

He told me he saw 850+ on the deck on a few occasions. They would out accelerate F-111 at low altitude and top out about the same

[High_Expect]

I wonder if there has ever been an F3 JP who hasn't planted the throttles to see what happens. I certainly don't know any. :-)

The essential knowledge quiz with a NE answer of 'learn later' didn't help rein any of us in ;-)

[LowObservable]

There is a ram effect at high airspeeds, hence the "not self limiting" issue. In the Code One story referenced earlier, one of the cautionary tales is a pilot who tried to find the F-16's max airspeed in a dive. The ram effect also causes the compressor entry temp to rise, an effect that gets multiplied in the compressor, resulting in a much larger increase in temp in the back of the engine. In the case of the F-16, this overwhelmed the turbine cooling, and the blades expanded and rubbed the case. The consequent fire decommissioned the H-stabs.

The formal KIAS limit on the F-16 was set by the canopy material.

[West Coast]

I've read reports that many Soviet pilots said the same about the MiG-23.