Compensation Madness (£2M to Iraqi Teenager)
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Compensation Madness (£2M to Iraqi Teenager)
Well this takes the biscuit, how many more cases will surface? Yet still the British serviceman will be offered paltry sums
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7347691.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7347691.stm
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I'm reminded of a bloke who is cheery and supplicant to business partners and buys complete strangers drinks in the bar - but behind closed doors, beats his wife up and treats his kids like sh#t.
However the MoD and the Courts dress this up, the comparisons are obvious. This is another own goal and kick in the teeth to those who won't (rightly) give a damn about the finer aspects of the ruling and who too, have had their lives ruined by the war in Iraq. I do sympathise so much for the Iraqi teenager, but where is the parity? But where does the regard of the law truly lie? With the value of human life, or with some crass law?
Another thread asks 'why doesn't the MoD care?'. Simple. Because in this day and age it doesn't have to.
However the MoD and the Courts dress this up, the comparisons are obvious. This is another own goal and kick in the teeth to those who won't (rightly) give a damn about the finer aspects of the ruling and who too, have had their lives ruined by the war in Iraq. I do sympathise so much for the Iraqi teenager, but where is the parity? But where does the regard of the law truly lie? With the value of human life, or with some crass law?
Another thread asks 'why doesn't the MoD care?'. Simple. Because in this day and age it doesn't have to.
Last edited by Al R; 15th Apr 2008 at 07:06.
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Of course the kid deserves it. An invading force comes into his country onto a false pretext. He nevertheless befriends the invading force, and gets paralysed for life due to negligence of the invading force. He absolutely deserves his payout.
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Richatom,
You have missed the point. The debate is not that the Iraqi boy does not deserve the compensation. The point that we in the Armed Services are trying to make is that our troops also require the same levels of support - sadly this is not the case. I remember a report many years ago that a farmer in Northern Ireland received more compensation for the death of a prize bull than a soldier received for the loss of a hand. We have come on a little way since then, but this government still does not seem to realise that their frugal policies, petty rules and ideologies are stacked against the traditions and values of the Services. Perhaps, if our senior politicians did a few weeks introduction course with the forces, just like our future King, then perhaps they just might understand..... However I'm sure that most of them do not wish to understand because there are few votes in it!
You have missed the point. The debate is not that the Iraqi boy does not deserve the compensation. The point that we in the Armed Services are trying to make is that our troops also require the same levels of support - sadly this is not the case. I remember a report many years ago that a farmer in Northern Ireland received more compensation for the death of a prize bull than a soldier received for the loss of a hand. We have come on a little way since then, but this government still does not seem to realise that their frugal policies, petty rules and ideologies are stacked against the traditions and values of the Services. Perhaps, if our senior politicians did a few weeks introduction course with the forces, just like our future King, then perhaps they just might understand..... However I'm sure that most of them do not wish to understand because there are few votes in it!
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It's not the award to the teenager that irks me. It's the disparity between him and the awards to servicemen similarly crippled by war in Iraq. The law courts are sending a clear message that the life of an Iraqi is worth more than one of our servicemen. 
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Rich atom,
Even taking into account the subjective nature of your post, no one has suggested that the lad doesn't require some form of justice and compensation - that goes without saying, if course he does. One might argue what quality of life he would have got otherwise and if £2 million was a fair amount and if the Iraqi g'ment, which maintains its invitation to the UK Forces shouldn't also be liable, but in principle.. no, of course we should try and right a wrong when we can.
But. I'm sure you'd agree - that principle extends to looking after our own as well.
Even taking into account the subjective nature of your post, no one has suggested that the lad doesn't require some form of justice and compensation - that goes without saying, if course he does. One might argue what quality of life he would have got otherwise and if £2 million was a fair amount and if the Iraqi g'ment, which maintains its invitation to the UK Forces shouldn't also be liable, but in principle.. no, of course we should try and right a wrong when we can.
But. I'm sure you'd agree - that principle extends to looking after our own as well.
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Trap one et al
Ultimately, British servicemen are volunteering to be there, the Iraqi child is not. Guys know the risks when they join up and they've had every opportunity over the last 5 years to make their own risk assessment, decide that Iraqistan is too bl00dy dangerous for them and PVR. To rant about a payout to an innocent child whose life has been destroyed puts you in a very poor light.
Ultimately, British servicemen are volunteering to be there, the Iraqi child is not. Guys know the risks when they join up and they've had every opportunity over the last 5 years to make their own risk assessment, decide that Iraqistan is too bl00dy dangerous for them and PVR. To rant about a payout to an innocent child whose life has been destroyed puts you in a very poor light.
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Vie Sans Frontieres,
You refer to volunteering. I am sure that those who have experience of lives ruined or lost in UK hospitals, building sites, UK roads or in our pubs will take comfort in your post. After all, who here had their lives ruined because they were forced into being shafted by a underfunded and disease ridden hospital, or by a negligent greedy boss? Last time I looked, not many people were compelled to take their driving test at the muzzle of a rifle either, prior to be T boned by a drunk driver and lets face it.. who coralled who into the bar, only to be assaulted by some glass wielding thug?
One rule for one, and one rule for another..?
You refer to volunteering. I am sure that those who have experience of lives ruined or lost in UK hospitals, building sites, UK roads or in our pubs will take comfort in your post. After all, who here had their lives ruined because they were forced into being shafted by a underfunded and disease ridden hospital, or by a negligent greedy boss? Last time I looked, not many people were compelled to take their driving test at the muzzle of a rifle either, prior to be T boned by a drunk driver and lets face it.. who coralled who into the bar, only to be assaulted by some glass wielding thug?
One rule for one, and one rule for another..?
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Compensation
The young man does without any doubt deserve the payout,he Needs care for the rest of his life.SO DOES EVERY OTHER MEMBER OF THE ARMED FORCES IN THE SAME SITUATION.
Its about time Mr Brown and the Goverment Mandrins got there house in order.
Mark
Its about time Mr Brown and the Goverment Mandrins got there house in order.
Mark
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I don't think the teenager does deserve anywhere near that amount. He moved to the UK obviously because he was told that he would get a much bigger payout if he used English courts rather than the Iraqi system.
Can't blame the kid for doing it, but I do blame the legal system and the low down lawyer that sniffed a nice fat payout to take their percentage off.
This is a bad precedent that will at least make it far to costly for Brown or his successor to get involved with conflicts in the future. Shame as it is good experience and training.
People get hurt in wars, that's why they aren't very nice.
Can't blame the kid for doing it, but I do blame the legal system and the low down lawyer that sniffed a nice fat payout to take their percentage off.
This is a bad precedent that will at least make it far to costly for Brown or his successor to get involved with conflicts in the future. Shame as it is good experience and training.
People get hurt in wars, that's why they aren't very nice.
The man was wounded in September 2003 when a British soldier, whom he had befriended, accidentally dropped his gun, making the weapon go off.
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I think it was the great 1990s poet Noel Gallagher that said, "If you're bothered about getting shot - here's a thing - don't join the army"
Simplistic maybe, almost juvenile, but he had a point. The guys know the risks and they know where the PVR forms are kept. What if every serviceman injured in World War II had the likes of Injury Lawyers 4U (sic) at his disposal? We'd have needed another Marshall Plan just for the compensation claims.
Servicemen becoming disabled is an utter tragedy, especially when the campaign seems as futile as the current ones appear to be. However, the bottom line is that unlike the child in question, they've taken the Queen's Shilling and have to take the rough with the smooth. Once you sign on the dotted line you know there may be a chance that you have to kill or maim. Similarly, there's a chance you might be killed or maimed yourself. The Terms & Conditions are there for all to see - they're called QRs. If you don't like the look of them, leave.
Simplistic maybe, almost juvenile, but he had a point. The guys know the risks and they know where the PVR forms are kept. What if every serviceman injured in World War II had the likes of Injury Lawyers 4U (sic) at his disposal? We'd have needed another Marshall Plan just for the compensation claims.
Servicemen becoming disabled is an utter tragedy, especially when the campaign seems as futile as the current ones appear to be. However, the bottom line is that unlike the child in question, they've taken the Queen's Shilling and have to take the rough with the smooth. Once you sign on the dotted line you know there may be a chance that you have to kill or maim. Similarly, there's a chance you might be killed or maimed yourself. The Terms & Conditions are there for all to see - they're called QRs. If you don't like the look of them, leave.
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VSF,
And likewise if Lawyers4U were around in France, Poland, Russia, Germany, Singapore, North Africa, Italy, London or Coventry etc etc etc ?
Would you like to try your argument regarding civillians injured during WW2?
2Mill a pop for the civillians killed or injured would quite possibly bankrupt Elton John florist.
If the boy had been shot by terrorists attacking the UK patrol, would that have been ok in your eyes? Or would he have been able to claim compensation from the UK for not protecting him during a firefight?
And likewise if Lawyers4U were around in France, Poland, Russia, Germany, Singapore, North Africa, Italy, London or Coventry etc etc etc ?
Would you like to try your argument regarding civillians injured during WW2?
2Mill a pop for the civillians killed or injured would quite possibly bankrupt Elton John florist.
If the boy had been shot by terrorists attacking the UK patrol, would that have been ok in your eyes? Or would he have been able to claim compensation from the UK for not protecting him during a firefight?
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VSF
Why didn't you include "That's life in a blue suit" or "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"?
I think your comments are deliberately shallow and disingenuous in an attempt to annoy.
You have the honour to be, sir, the first on my ignore list.
"If you're bothered about getting shot - here's a thing - don't join the army"
The Terms & Conditions are there for all to see - they're called QRs. If you don't like the look of them, leave.
I think your comments are deliberately shallow and disingenuous in an attempt to annoy.
You have the honour to be, sir, the first on my ignore list.
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Given the ruling by Mr Justice Collins, wounded soldiers (etc) and bereaved families will be picking up these sums if injuries or deaths are caused by faulty, inadequate or unsupplied equipment or training deficiencies. This will provide a massive incentive for MoD to spend money getting it right in the first place. A bit of a digression, but not entirely unrelated.
Regardless of peoples' opinions on the rights and wrongs here, it is interesting to note that sites such as the BBC and Telegraph which frequently invite people to comment on stories have remained very quiet over this one, with no opportunity to comment.
Given the recent bad press the govt has been getting over support to the Armed Forces, am I being cynical to think that online sites have been asked not to allow comment on this story given the inveitable reaction it will invoke?
Given the recent bad press the govt has been getting over support to the Armed Forces, am I being cynical to think that online sites have been asked not to allow comment on this story given the inveitable reaction it will invoke?
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Is it such a crime to see the MoD's point of view? Why should the rules be different now from what they were in major conflicts of the past?
GPMG - fair point (I knew someone would make it), but I'm trying to show that the blame/compensation culture is a relatively recent phenomena and that it shouldn't be applied to injuries sustained by servicemen in conflict. Guys know the risks.
Riskman - I'll cry myself to sleep now that you're ignoring me.
GPMG - fair point (I knew someone would make it), but I'm trying to show that the blame/compensation culture is a relatively recent phenomena and that it shouldn't be applied to injuries sustained by servicemen in conflict. Guys know the risks.
Riskman - I'll cry myself to sleep now that you're ignoring me.
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"What if every serviceman injured in World War II had the likes of Injury Lawyers 4U (sic) at his disposal?"
In case you hadn't noticed this isn't the 1940's anymore, service personnel should be suitibly provided for if they are injured,
just because people "knew the deal when they joined" doesn't make that deal right or fair
the "Compensation culture" will be applied to the MOD in time just as soon as they are dragged kicking and screaming through the courts and made to realise YET AGAIN that they are not above the law!
I think the Iraqi boy in question deserves every penny of his 2 million quid btw
In case you hadn't noticed this isn't the 1940's anymore, service personnel should be suitibly provided for if they are injured,
just because people "knew the deal when they joined" doesn't make that deal right or fair
the "Compensation culture" will be applied to the MOD in time just as soon as they are dragged kicking and screaming through the courts and made to realise YET AGAIN that they are not above the law!
I think the Iraqi boy in question deserves every penny of his 2 million quid btw