Fg Off Wales' Wings
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They know this stuff gets out and makes everybody look foolish so why authorise it?
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Old-timer,
He's the head of the CofE too. Somehow I doubt he'll be undertaking a part-time theology degree. Or doing work experience in Tesco, which is where many more of his future subjects slave on minimum wage than serve in the RAF. But hey, when you can learn to fly in your own personal flying club - who could say no?
That wasn't really my original point though. When you're dealing with public money, it should be seen to be spent wisely. Granted that seldom happens, but why make a rod for your own back?
D O G
PS Goudie, any officer in the armed forces is expected to think about the impact of his or her decisions, so yes they should bloody consider it unless they're irretrievably stupid. And if you ask the majority of taxpayers (who don't automatically think that everything the forces do is terrific) they are unlikely to think this kind of thing a good use of their money.
Rant over. DOG out.
He's the head of the CofE too. Somehow I doubt he'll be undertaking a part-time theology degree. Or doing work experience in Tesco, which is where many more of his future subjects slave on minimum wage than serve in the RAF. But hey, when you can learn to fly in your own personal flying club - who could say no?
That wasn't really my original point though. When you're dealing with public money, it should be seen to be spent wisely. Granted that seldom happens, but why make a rod for your own back?
D O G
PS Goudie, any officer in the armed forces is expected to think about the impact of his or her decisions, so yes they should bloody consider it unless they're irretrievably stupid. And if you ask the majority of taxpayers (who don't automatically think that everything the forces do is terrific) they are unlikely to think this kind of thing a good use of their money.
Rant over. DOG out.
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DOG
PW actually spent a year working with poor, underprivileged kids.
If you were in the forces then your remarks are surprising. There is nothing wrong with carrying out bona fide training and if that results in a land away, returning 24/48 hours later, then so what. It is also common as training hours are so tight that a different crew will operate the aircraft on it's return journey.
The Navy do it, and the Army do it.
Or doing work experience in Tesco, which is where many more of his future subjects slave on minimum wage than serve in the RAF.
PW actually spent a year working with poor, underprivileged kids.
If you were in the forces then your remarks are surprising. There is nothing wrong with carrying out bona fide training and if that results in a land away, returning 24/48 hours later, then so what. It is also common as training hours are so tight that a different crew will operate the aircraft on it's return journey.
The Navy do it, and the Army do it.
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Used to borrow Ansons for weekend "Navigation" exercises to Jersey in good old days. Perks of the job and all that. BTW how to W & H get home after the piss up?
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Grrrr... Why do I feel the overwhelming temptation to take part in this?...
Anyway. My main point isn't that it is normal practice in the services. I am well aware of that. Rather that I would like to think that someone might consider the ramifications of such a daft course of action and how it will look in the public eye.
I find it rather surprising that some people in the armed forces really think that they work directly for the Monarch, her heirs and successors etc etc. Yes we all like to think that... but surely everyone realises by now that they work for the Govt??
That's it. I'm not looking again.
Anyway. My main point isn't that it is normal practice in the services. I am well aware of that. Rather that I would like to think that someone might consider the ramifications of such a daft course of action and how it will look in the public eye.
I find it rather surprising that some people in the armed forces really think that they work directly for the Monarch, her heirs and successors etc etc. Yes we all like to think that... but surely everyone realises by now that they work for the Govt??
That's it. I'm not looking again.
DOG
I accept your point, but what else could the military do? Do you think that the The Scum would have run a story with the headline "PW to carry out routine Chinook training sortie"? We cannot issue a press release every time W or H do some routine training. The Scum and others will want their sensational headline. I happen to believe that most readers will accept the realisitic answer of the MOD on this one. It was a routine training sortie that also happened to be useful.
If it is routine training that would have been done anyway, just that this happened to also involve a slight benefit for some of the occupants, we, the MOD and the three services, should not need to justify that to the tabloid press et al. It's a bit like 'serf's' complaint about The Firebirds doing a 9-ship formation trip. You can please some of the people, some of the time.....
I accept your point, but what else could the military do? Do you think that the The Scum would have run a story with the headline "PW to carry out routine Chinook training sortie"? We cannot issue a press release every time W or H do some routine training. The Scum and others will want their sensational headline. I happen to believe that most readers will accept the realisitic answer of the MOD on this one. It was a routine training sortie that also happened to be useful.
If it is routine training that would have been done anyway, just that this happened to also involve a slight benefit for some of the occupants, we, the MOD and the three services, should not need to justify that to the tabloid press et al. It's a bit like 'serf's' complaint about The Firebirds doing a 9-ship formation trip. You can please some of the people, some of the time.....
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BR 81, Naval Uniform Regs state that Naval wings must be worn on Naval uniform. Regardless of the service in which the holder qualified. (Of course the Navy may not regard him as qualified.
.)
PMOK wears naval wings on his Rear Admiral RNR's uniform and he was a pongo. I do have a question though. The DofE's wings, when worn on a Garter Sash do look rather golden. Are they old RAF from the days of gold lace on best uniforms or RN wings?
.)PMOK wears naval wings on his Rear Admiral RNR's uniform and he was a pongo. I do have a question though. The DofE's wings, when worn on a Garter Sash do look rather golden. Are they old RAF from the days of gold lace on best uniforms or RN wings?
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Why should uniform regs even come into this? Its down to the qualification afterall. Surely resorting to uniform regulatory requirements is skimming on blatant pedantry?
DOG - may I suggest that you might be better pursuing Gordon Brown and the rest of the govt who have allegedly squandered £1 Trillion in their time in office! That is an outrageous waste of public money and hardly comparable to a trip in a Chinook from which William will have got some proper training value - even if it was en route to a pissup.
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crab - seconded. The horrors of PFI and the raping and pillaging of the public service through consultancies in bed with the incumbent government are endless. There's a great book out by a man called David Craig who chronicled these together with Private Eye. I was utterly gobsmacked.
S.
S.
"My main point isn't that it is normal practice in the services. I am well aware of that"
DoG, perhaps you'd like to share your vast knowledge of Service life and Chinook ops with the rest of us?
HRH was allocated a number of training hours on the Chinook; it is about the most relevant Operational type at the moment as far as he and his army colleagues are concerned, so of course he wanted to fly one. Now, to fly a wokka through the lanes is perfectly normal for training, as are city centre HLSs (At least they did Woolwich barracks not Armoury House!). To complete a trip with low level and a landing at a different airfield is also routine, as is to carry a spare crew "dead-heading" to reposition the aircraft in these days of high Op tempo.
Bottom line - The aircraft is paid for, the hours are paid for, the crew is paid for. Get over it.
DoG, perhaps you'd like to share your vast knowledge of Service life and Chinook ops with the rest of us?
HRH was allocated a number of training hours on the Chinook; it is about the most relevant Operational type at the moment as far as he and his army colleagues are concerned, so of course he wanted to fly one. Now, to fly a wokka through the lanes is perfectly normal for training, as are city centre HLSs (At least they did Woolwich barracks not Armoury House!). To complete a trip with low level and a landing at a different airfield is also routine, as is to carry a spare crew "dead-heading" to reposition the aircraft in these days of high Op tempo.
Bottom line - The aircraft is paid for, the hours are paid for, the crew is paid for. Get over it.
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bouy15 Post 68:
"The Pratt on the left looks like a bag of shite and totally dis-interested
He would look well at a 3rd world presidential election but not as an RAF ACM at an official function
As a retired Senior Officer, I am priviliged never to have met him in my career
I wishfully hope his Mother survives him, and England never sees him as King
God Bless England, Harry and St George"
What a most acid and unpleasant post, if indeed from "a retired senior officer". I am also a retired senior officer and recall, in the dim distant past, swearing an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty, her heirs and successors. I can only assume it was meant to be a wind-up, so will now ignore it and bouy 15.
ON
"The Pratt on the left looks like a bag of shite and totally dis-interested
He would look well at a 3rd world presidential election but not as an RAF ACM at an official function
As a retired Senior Officer, I am priviliged never to have met him in my career
I wishfully hope his Mother survives him, and England never sees him as King
God Bless England, Harry and St George"
What a most acid and unpleasant post, if indeed from "a retired senior officer". I am also a retired senior officer and recall, in the dim distant past, swearing an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty, her heirs and successors. I can only assume it was meant to be a wind-up, so will now ignore it and bouy 15.
ON
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Old Ned
Agreed. I had, had the fortune not to read that post.
bouy15 I am sure even if you were attending the Swedish Ladies naked netball competition, if the press were taking in order of 4000 photos of you within a 15 minute period, several of those photos would portray a disinterested look! Besides that HRH has been up since gawd o'clock doing all the bit as a reviewing officer and then a Dining in night to boot. I have had the pleasure of meeting him, he was jolly nice. Quite dreadful words from an ex 'senior officer', I am glad you are no longer around to spread you vitriol to the younger chaps.
Agreed. I had, had the fortune not to read that post.
bouy15 I am sure even if you were attending the Swedish Ladies naked netball competition, if the press were taking in order of 4000 photos of you within a 15 minute period, several of those photos would portray a disinterested look! Besides that HRH has been up since gawd o'clock doing all the bit as a reviewing officer and then a Dining in night to boot. I have had the pleasure of meeting him, he was jolly nice. Quite dreadful words from an ex 'senior officer', I am glad you are no longer around to spread you vitriol to the younger chaps.
Ansons
Brakedwell, where were you on Ansons, I know a guy who was on them at Fairoaks, 
Just another tuppence worth, it seems this thread is getting off track in some ways ? - anyway, for my bit I have to say that anyone who dons a uniform for the service of our country deserves utmost respect & honour, both Royal & otherwise, it's great that the HRH chaps are having a go & I for one believe they are good lads doing a difficult job under the intense media pressure.
thats all folks !
Just another tuppence worth, it seems this thread is getting off track in some ways ? - anyway, for my bit I have to say that anyone who dons a uniform for the service of our country deserves utmost respect & honour, both Royal & otherwise, it's great that the HRH chaps are having a go & I for one believe they are good lads doing a difficult job under the intense media pressure.
thats all folks !
There seems to be a lot of confusion over honorary rank and flying badges. For my money I think the Prince should have done enough time in the RAF to be awarded a proper flying badge. Don't forget that POW and DOY both did time flying 'front line' types following proper training courses. Is the UK so hard up that we can't afford the same for Wills? Shoddy in my view and de-values the badge IF 'spun' as "Wills gets his wings following RAF course", etc, etc. If they are honorary wings then let's have the honesty to say so.
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Blimey look at all the bling that old Charlie Boy is sporting!!!
Either he's been a very busy beaver (does calling the future King a "busy beaver" constitute treason? hope not
) or Elizabeth Duke has been cleaned out!!!
Either he's been a very busy beaver (does calling the future King a "busy beaver" constitute treason? hope not
) or Elizabeth Duke has been cleaned out!!!
