DII(F) - 'F' for future? or just plain 'F######'!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Somerset
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DII(F) - 'F' for future? or just plain 'F######'!
The MOD has spent god knows how much on DII(F). Sure, one day we'll all be able to e-mail each other etc etc, but that day seems an age away. This week alone we have had absolutely zero IT functionality for a day and a half, as you can imagine the productivity nosedived. Things seem to be getting worse, not better.
I ask you, could we have possibly spent these £M's on a more worthwhile cause?? I think it's a sad waste of money that is desperately needed elsewhere.
I ask you, could we have possibly spent these £M's on a more worthwhile cause?? I think it's a sad waste of money that is desperately needed elsewhere.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Some-r-set
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hopefully they'll do better then the NHS system.
Spoke to a kid who did his work experience on it.
DII(F)***ing muppets whoever designed and thought that process through
Spoke to a kid who did his work experience on it.
DII(F)***ing muppets whoever designed and thought that process through
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Wales
Age: 63
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny isn’t it, the MOD want new computer systems – they don’t work. The MOD wants new aeroplanes – they don’t work either. In fact just about everything that the MOD buys (JPA and guns included) don’t work properly.........I wonder why???
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Transiting the M27
Age: 50
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem is that major computer contractors won't touch government contracts per se with a bargepole because such deals are both multi-complex and enormous. So we end up with tin-pot, half cut services instead.
Integrated computer system? My rear...
Integrated computer system? My rear...
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dunno - the bidders:
Atlas - (EDS (prime), Fujitsu, Cogent, General Dynamics, LogicaCMG)
IBM - (IBM (prime), BAE Systems, Computacenter, Steria, ntl, Echelon)
Lockheed Martin - (Lockheed Martin (prime), Deloitte, Hewlett Packard, Qinetiq, SAIC, Unisys)
Radii - (CSC (prime), BT, Capgemini, Thales UK)
You're basically talking the biggest IT suppliers / service providers in the world, so certainly not tinpot. Well thats the theory anyway...
I think the point is that if the big companies cant even get it right (repeatedly) then you'd think that someone would take notice and not outsource to people with a proven track record of failure (think NHS, pensions, and every other major government IT fiasco over the last 10 years, and think what the common denominator in a lot of them was. Any of those names above just happen to crop up?)
IT promises lots, but delivers little. I'm surprised your productivity plummeted when you're systems went down - I would have thought it would have gone through the roof without computers to screw it all up!
Oh - I work for one of those companies mentioned above, and worked on the DII(F) bid for another...
The one thing outsourcing has taught me is that the bid promises bear no relation to what you get delivered, its a complete waste of our tax money when the suppliers main role is to rip you off as much as possible, you'll get absolutely no loyalty from your suppliers, the supplier will not resource the account sufficiently, your service will disappear down the pan, end up "offshored" to India to maximise their profits, you'll have no comeback, everything costs, you get absolutely nothing free, you'll be fighting for it all the way, and in 5-10 years time when the contract is up for grabs (and just as the service gets to an acceptable level), you'll end up with a new supplier and go straight back to square 1.
I'm not planning on sticking around in outsourced IT for long....
Atlas - (EDS (prime), Fujitsu, Cogent, General Dynamics, LogicaCMG)
IBM - (IBM (prime), BAE Systems, Computacenter, Steria, ntl, Echelon)
Lockheed Martin - (Lockheed Martin (prime), Deloitte, Hewlett Packard, Qinetiq, SAIC, Unisys)
Radii - (CSC (prime), BT, Capgemini, Thales UK)
You're basically talking the biggest IT suppliers / service providers in the world, so certainly not tinpot. Well thats the theory anyway...
I think the point is that if the big companies cant even get it right (repeatedly) then you'd think that someone would take notice and not outsource to people with a proven track record of failure (think NHS, pensions, and every other major government IT fiasco over the last 10 years, and think what the common denominator in a lot of them was. Any of those names above just happen to crop up?)
IT promises lots, but delivers little. I'm surprised your productivity plummeted when you're systems went down - I would have thought it would have gone through the roof without computers to screw it all up!
Oh - I work for one of those companies mentioned above, and worked on the DII(F) bid for another...
The one thing outsourcing has taught me is that the bid promises bear no relation to what you get delivered, its a complete waste of our tax money when the suppliers main role is to rip you off as much as possible, you'll get absolutely no loyalty from your suppliers, the supplier will not resource the account sufficiently, your service will disappear down the pan, end up "offshored" to India to maximise their profits, you'll have no comeback, everything costs, you get absolutely nothing free, you'll be fighting for it all the way, and in 5-10 years time when the contract is up for grabs (and just as the service gets to an acceptable level), you'll end up with a new supplier and go straight back to square 1.I'm not planning on sticking around in outsourced IT for long....
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Canberra
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To apply the KISS principle here, would it not be better for all parties if procurement went something like this;
End User; "You chaps have stuff i want"
Solutions Provider; "Ok, which stuff?"
"That gear over there"
"Arhh......does Sir know how to use it?"
"Not really, but i'm sure I'll get the hang of it, we have some very bright people in our organization who will figure it out and they have used stuff very similar before"
"Very good......Cash or Credit Sir?"
End User; "You chaps have stuff i want"
Solutions Provider; "Ok, which stuff?"
"That gear over there"
"Arhh......does Sir know how to use it?"
"Not really, but i'm sure I'll get the hang of it, we have some very bright people in our organization who will figure it out and they have used stuff very similar before"
"Very good......Cash or Credit Sir?"
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the point is that if the big companies cant even get it right
the reputation of the other companies listed there is far more intact
/NS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Transiting the M27
Age: 50
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Happy to be corrected Postman Plod.
It still remains that DII is shoddy, the spam filtering is appalling, the sever speed is unacceptable and the service help line is worse than BT, and that's saying something. I thought the old systems were bad, but considering we're in 2008, the system takes so long to procure - just like our big kit projects - it's out of date by the time it goes in service.
It still remains that DII is shoddy, the spam filtering is appalling, the sever speed is unacceptable and the service help line is worse than BT, and that's saying something. I thought the old systems were bad, but considering we're in 2008, the system takes so long to procure - just like our big kit projects - it's out of date by the time it goes in service.
Postman Plod
!!!!! Each bid team has at least one company I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Not sure I'd like to be doing the bid assessment. I'd have the known good companies in a corner and tell them to form a consortium!
!!!!! Each bid team has at least one company I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Not sure I'd like to be doing the bid assessment. I'd have the known good companies in a corner and tell them to form a consortium!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I have had DII/c for a couple of years. It works. I have had DII/f ........
People come, people go, had two turn up one day to fix a problem and 2 others, uannounced, to accept the system AT THE SAME TIME.
Then on Friday 2 more came, unannounced, to accept the system. Naturally it doesn't work. I actually have an appointment from DII for 4 weeks hence to accept it. Exactly what they do when they come I don't know but it is always in pairs.
People come, people go, had two turn up one day to fix a problem and 2 others, uannounced, to accept the system AT THE SAME TIME.
Then on Friday 2 more came, unannounced, to accept the system. Naturally it doesn't work. I actually have an appointment from DII for 4 weeks hence to accept it. Exactly what they do when they come I don't know but it is always in pairs.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Shropshire
Age: 56
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did some work for DII(f) about a year ago as an EDS contractor. I left the project mainy because it just wasn't being managed. Here's my 2p worth:
1. MOD asks eds 'can you provide X in Y timescale?
2. EDS (and the rest of ATLAS) says yes without understanding what is reqiuied.
3. Atlas tries to build X in Y time, but can't, so they deliver waht they've got.
4. MOD says 'Actually we wanted Z not X'
5. go to 2 and repeat.
The suits in whitehall and the guy in a landrover in Iraq need different things, but DII(f) is one size, fits no-one.
Sound familiar?
1. MOD asks eds 'can you provide X in Y timescale?
2. EDS (and the rest of ATLAS) says yes without understanding what is reqiuied.
3. Atlas tries to build X in Y time, but can't, so they deliver waht they've got.
4. MOD says 'Actually we wanted Z not X'
5. go to 2 and repeat.
The suits in whitehall and the guy in a landrover in Iraq need different things, but DII(f) is one size, fits no-one.
Sound familiar?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 80
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it the kit or the management? For instance, am I alone in wondering just how the contestants in "The Apprentice" manage to dress and feed themselves?
They seem to spend their time arguing and so lose sight of the desired end result as well as making the most basic errors. If they're examples of what's good in British management, then God help us. Just think, they may even have brothers and sisters in the MoD...
They seem to spend their time arguing and so lose sight of the desired end result as well as making the most basic errors. If they're examples of what's good in British management, then God help us. Just think, they may even have brothers and sisters in the MoD...
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Out East
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sage Words
Years back, an old boss of mine in FI provided the definitive Project Cycle for MOD procurements:
Pip pip ON
Wild Enthusiasm
Chaos
Search For The Guilty
Punishment Of The Innocent
Promotion Of The Non-Participants
Seems to ring true even todayPip pip ON
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not a Wikipedia fan but this made me chuckle.
and then, from JSP 777
Network Enabled Capability, or NEC, is the name given to the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence intent to achieve enhanced military effect through the better use of information systems towards the goal of "right information, right place, right time - and not too much".
NEC is not a pipe dream.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Somerset
Age: 68
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exscribbler,
If you have a network at home, or do any on-line gaming, then basically you've got the 'kit', and after you've ironed out the glitches, the kit works.
However, when you have some barking-mad restrictions which actively prevent NEC, and a 'chief executive' who refuses to acknowledge that thousands of little problems occurring every day might amount to a big problem, coupled with performance targets my old 386 could achieve, then you have DII(F).
Is it the kit or the management?
However, when you have some barking-mad restrictions which actively prevent NEC, and a 'chief executive' who refuses to acknowledge that thousands of little problems occurring every day might amount to a big problem, coupled with performance targets my old 386 could achieve, then you have DII(F).