TA to expel soldiers who won’t go to war

[Al R]

Blogger said:
I stand by every TA person who wants not to be killed or have their legs blown off by a road side IED.

Believe it ot not Blogger, I think most of us would stand by that sentiment. And not just the squatters who kidnap moral high ground wherever it may be found, by claiming some kind of self righteous ideological and political ascendancy. Having previously sponged off the system for 25 years of course.

[D O Guerrero]

Very interesting thread so far... Personally, having left the services a while back, I decided I didn't want to join the reserves as part of my reason for leaving was the endless mess we have mired ourselves in in the Gulf.
I very much sympathise with reservists who do not want to deploy. I imagine that a large number of them joined in the days when their deployment would only take place in the event of the UK mainland being under threat. Not unreasonable terms? However when the reserves are used as a cheap way of bolstering regular forces, I really can't see what the appeal would be to anyone aside from those ineligible to join the regulars.
If I could join the reserve, using my skills developed at great expense to the taxpayer and do something to help the efforts on the front line without actually going there, I would. I have no plans, however, to get my brains blown out for a country (edit: Iraq, that is) that I don't care about. Selfish, I know, but I suspect that's the way a great many people feel about it.

[Squirrel 41]

Jimlad1

What you say is technically correct: the MOD do indeed make a payment to replace the reservist who is called up. The problem, however, is that the reservists we have are often not immediately replaceable with the same skill set or contacts. Consequently - and especially for smaller employers - it simply isn't practical to replace the reservists and there is a loss in allowing them to go for 6-8 months (4-6 month tours plus pre-Dep and Leave/PODL). It is in making this sacrifice that the MOD is asking a lot from the employers - and it is here that the unpopularity of the cause makes a big difference.

S41

[The Gorilla]

In the industry I am in, any one in the TA or R Aux AF wouldn't be offered employment. Jimlad is wrong to state that an employer is not left out of pocket by the experience. That might have been the theory, but in practice....

[c-bert]

As an ex-reservist I'm afraid I fundamentaly disagree with the concept of deploying reservist overseas. We do not have the training or experience to act as regulars and I believe the reservists should be used to backfill regulars' posts in the UK were skill, training and experience can be less critical.

[Wycombe]

C-bert, I'm an "ex" aswell, but still fairly closely in touch with my former unit.

As such, I agree re. overseas deployment, but the reality of the situation faced currently is that the Reserve have to be used "forward" as there simply aren't enough bodies in the regular trade to go around all the current commitments.

What you describe used to be the case, and was for me when mobilised to my parent unit for GW1 - those days are gone.

On the plus side, I would say this has (and maybe I generalise) probably improved the standing and perception of the Reserves with their regular counterparts.

[Al R]

Reservists, as part of their pensionable service, draw a gratuity/pension rights that would make Alan Sugar blush. In return, it compels on them an obligation and its that very pensionable service which gives them the 'training or experience'.

[davejb]

My understanding of the law (or lack of understanding perhaps!) is that an employer is able to apply for compensation for a called up employee -
I was not aware that the compensation would, for example, automatically pay for an equivalent part time employee to be taken on (I would think that in many cases a trained 'bank' employee would cost more to employ to fill the gap, so even a £ for £ compensation would probably still see employers out of pocket).

(So anybody who can post a link where it's all spelled out feel free... all Iv'e found is mention of 'some' compensation for employers).

Neither does the temporary employee necessarily have the skills you need - what if your finance director goes, for example, can they be replaced by somebody unfamiliar with your business?

I'm not an employer - but I do have sympathy for people trying to run companies who seem to be faced by an ever increasing list of challenges by our government - ONE of which is this one.

Dave

[DucatiST4]

http://www.sabre.mod.uk/output/page1.asp

[DucatiST4]

Don't include TA in that though - we don't qualify for a pension.

[davejb]

Cheers Ducati -
drilling down through different bits all I could actually find about 'what the employer gets' was

1.The Standard Award, one of three types of award available,
covers actual net additional costs incurred by the employer,
as a result of mobilisation of Reservist employees. This
includes both initial, non-recurring costs – such as
advertising for and interviewing replacement staff– and
additional recurring costs – such as agency fees and/or
overtime undertaken by other staff to compensate for
the mobilised employee’s absence. In both cases, the
amount that can be claimed is capped, according to the
Reservist’s rank.

...which strongly suggests that an employer isn't automatically covered for expenses - although lots of sites suggest this is being reworked. So your chief financial officer happens to be a Lance Corporal and....maybe you won't be getting all that much to help replace them!

I still think the goverment should pay for full time forces, I've still not seen anything to suggest employers don't actually subsidise the government when TA's deploy.

Dave

[Squirrel 41]

Reservists Pensionsable Service

Al R -

Just to clear it up, reservists only get pensionable service for the period for which they have been called up for active duty - in other words, the period for which they have been inducted into the regular forces.

There is no "Reservist Pension" in the sense you imply - if you serve 40 years in the reserve and are never called up (obviously increasingly unlikely now) then you would get no pension at all. This is something that some reservists - though I don't include myself in this - can get very exercised about.

If you were to do a reservist pension scheme, the easiest route would be to set a high bar for the number of qualifying years (say 16 or 22) and then average the number of days served during that time - unlikely to be more than 40 for most reservists - and then pay that proportion of a standard military pension. This would be quite cheap - both because the absolute amounts would be quite small (c. 5-10% of a similar regular's pension), but also because only a few would qualify as most reservists (esp. TA) don't serve more than 10 years. However, it would be a nice thank-you.

Of course, you'd need to make sure that the reservists met their annual CCS / Fitness / Efficiency targets for that year to count towards whatever the thing was, but there you are. However, it would cost money,so it won't happen.

Thoughts?

S41

(edited for spolink)

[Al R]

Hi Squirrel,

Thanks for the decent reply.

My 'message' wasn't as clear as it should have been perhaps. I was referring to the fact that ex Regulars, as part of their pensionable service then have a reservist liability, and its that liability which the MoD is tapping into. If you do the 22, you don't have the reservist committment anyway (is that still the case?) but even if you do less than that, an ex Regular has experience which places on them a liability and a premium too, on their experience and skill. The Forces pension is transferable, so Reservist service can be topped up for the future and compared to civvy pensions its a cracking deal.

I see there's a fair degree of grumbling about the benefits calculator, and the pension. I wonder if many servicemen and women have taken out self invested or personal pensions on top of their existing non-con Occupational one? If they had, they would see what civvies have to pay to get a deal as good as the MoD one. I can see where you're coming from though - if you have done only a few years Reg service, to be 'on call' with no or little immediate payback could be galling. It seems bizarre that little is done to keep Reservists sweet. I remember most Reservists slipping through the net or simply ignoring their committment the moment they left. It seems to be a massive waste of resources.

Cheers.

[Beatriz Fontana]

I have to say that I had a brief flirtation with the RAuxAF (all personal hell let loose so sadly didn't join) and was told that it was expected that I would deploy after the basic Officer training. Mate of mine currently in the RAuxAF (as a SAC) was told the same thing and lo and behold...

Times have changed from the days when you joined the reservists - or the regulars to to that - and didn't see action.

[Winch-control]

OK Look here...
Medics make a difference in Helmand

A Military Operations news article

17 Dec 07

In a tented field hospital in the middle of the Afghan desert, a team of military medics capable of providing some of the best healthcare available anywhere await the latest casualties from Helmand Province. Report by Danny Chapman.


In the emergency ward at the field hospital at Camp Bastion, medics administer treatment to a new casualty
[Picture: SAC Kimberley Waterson RAF]

It is early evening when the call comes in that some local Afghanis have been injured in a mine strike.

The Camp Bastion field hospital has 110 staff and the Accident and Emergency (A & E) Ward, the first point of call for casualties, can provide up to 22 medics for each patient.
Major Mike Carr is the Officer Commanding the A & E ward. He is a Territorial Army (TA) medic from 201 Field Hospital who currently have 57 personnel in Bastion. Major Carr normally works as a Resuscitation Officer in Middlesbrough Hospital:

"We absolutely wouldn't have this amount of people back home," he says. "They'll laugh at us back home and say we don't need that amount of people, but we have very different types of injuries here. We are truly patient focused."

The A & E ward is abuzz with different teams preparing equipment, drugs and beds for the patients they are expecting. The atmosphere is one of calm, collected, organised, expectation. Among the medics immediately available to treat battlefield casualties at Bastion are vascular specialists (dealing with veins and arteries), orthopaedic specialists (addressing musculoskeletal injuries), anaesthetists, neurosurgeons and trauma specialists. The specialists on hand are there precisely because of the types of injuries that most commonly come through the door - gun shot wounds and blast injuries:

"A casualty is truly better off here than back home," continues Major Carr. "I know I run the risk of upsetting my NHS friends, but I know everyone here and know everyone is joined up. You can't have it so labour intensive back home; otherwise you'd have people standing around doing nothing."

Soon after the initial call an update is read out saying that the casualties are being taken to a more local facility. However another Afghani, with a gun shot wound, will now be brought here. The area where the casualty is though is "hot", meaning there is hostile activity making it impossible for the Medical Emergency Response Team, onboard a Chinook helicopter, to land. The Bastion medics go into wait mode. And many go off to get some food and rest.
This is how the hospital works at Bastion. One of the members of the team who treat casualties on arrival is Lieutenant Colonel Ben Banerjee, the General Surgeon at Bastion. Also a TA medic from 201 Field Hospital whose day job is a consultant vascular surgeon at City Hospital, Sunderland, he has been in Bastion for 70 days, and in that time dealt with 168 "operative procedures." He explains:

"The work itself varies in busyness, casualties tend to come in large numbers, in a small space of time and we have periods of quieter times where we can catch up with rest and administration. My job back home is quite a busy job. Here, we've wiped the slate clean and really we're sitting here waiting for absolutely anything to come in the door.

"We think in terms of the 'Golden Hour', the ideal time from injury to surgery. Obviously we don't always get that, so to compensate we throw resources at the patient." Major Mike Carr

"I've done operational tours before, but this is the first time that I've worked at this sort of intensity. One has to be very conscious of making sure we get proper food and rest in between the casualties coming in. I've had to manage my own time very carefully."

It is close to midnight before another call comes in saying that the helicopter is on its way and will be twenty minutes, so the A & E team start preparing again:

"Time's our enemy," says Major Carr. "We think in terms of the 'Golden Hour', the ideal time from injury to surgery. Obviously we don't always get that, so to compensate we throw resources at the patient."

The casualty arrives. He is conscious and relatively OK it seems. The team go to work with the Trauma Team Leader directing them like a conductor in an orchestra. The radiography team are right there taking X-rays straight away. Intravenous tubes are placed in the patient's arms and pain killing drugs administered. The specialists analyse the extent of the injuries and whether any operations are needed tonight:

"The biggest challenges as a surgeon," says Lt Col Banerjee, "paradoxically are not in the operating theatre. I'm at home in the operating theatre. The biggest challenge is actually in the resuscitation room and making the right decisions for the patients. That may mean not operating on the patient or operating."

An interpreter is also right there at the bedside, asking the patient questions and translating the medic's instructions, though mostly he seems to be telling the patient, who after all has been shot and in a totally foreign environment, to relax.

"We often have to complete their surgery and rehabilitate them within this hospital. There are Afghan medical institutions, however at this point in time their capabilities are not as high as in this hospital."

The disciplined teamwork going on around tonight's patient is awe inspiring:

"If anything, the busyness here has brought the team closer together," says Lt Col Banerjee. "And it works and produces the highest quality of healthcare that I've ever seen."

201 Field Hospital undergo specific medical training packages leading up to their deployment as well as hospital exercises, which help them come together as a team. Lt Col Banerjee, who has been in the unit for 18 years, says:

"This is the icing on the cake as far as the family and the team that 201 Field Hospital is and really has brought us all much closer together."

Lieutenant Colonel Ben Banerjee, General Surgeon from 201 Field Hospital in the operating theatre at Camp Bastion
[Picture: SAC Kimberley Waterson RAF]

Within an hour, the patient has been stabilised and it is decided he doesn't need an operation tonight and will be placed onto the ward to be monitored. The hospital's standard wards can take up to 23 patients, but they can adapt it to take up to 50 if needed. Because the wards are all tented they can be easily added to if required.
The hospital consists of a huge corridor running spine-like down the centre of the different wards which branch off on each side:

"The field hospital layout has essentially been the same for years," says Major Carr, "but it does work. Everything I need is here."

The wards branching off the corridor include an operating theatre, a pharmacy, an intensive treatment unit and pathology unit, where a patient's blood type is tested, just in case there's been mistake on the dog tags:

"It might look basic, but it's just as functional as any other theatre in the NHS," Lt Col Banerjee says, sitting in his two bed operating theatre. "Most of the equipment here is very simple, because we're applying basic surgical principles. We're trying to save somebody's life. We have all the equipment we require to do any life saving procedure. Obviously there are occasions where we might decide we need another specialist bit of equipment, but that's usually ordered and can be here within two days."

The temperature within the tented hospital is controlled, and according to Major Carr the biggest challenge to working in the tented hospital is keeping it clean, especially from all the dust around Bastion, but a special gel is used and a bit more cleaning than usual is required.
Tonight's single casualty though, despite the long wait for his arrival, has made tonight, a relatively quiet night.
Both Lt Col Banerjee and Major Carr, who like the other TA medics, are in Helmand for three months, say this is the busiest deployment they've been on:

"It's bloody exhausting," says Lt Col Banerjee. "We've been through quite a busy phase and it's quite hard to work at this intensity. We sleep when we can and eat when we can, but it's always been like that for medics."

Err hes my wifes cousin and in the TA!!!!

[NURSE]

interesting point which i do agree with the govt makes it bl**dy awkward for employers to claim what they are entitled to. However most of the reservists I know who have lost their jobs were employed by govt eg the NHS and Mod.