Frequent Flyer Miles for HM Forces?
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Frequent Flyer Miles for HM Forces?
It appears that it is acceptable for The Speaker of the House of Commons (a crown servant) to use airmiles earned during official travel for private benefit i.e. to fly his family from Scotland to London.
I presume this means that members of HM Forces (also crown servants) can now ignore the previous set of rules and do the same. I am looking forward to taking Mrs. Flo and the small Flo's on a long free holiday thanks to all of the airmiles I've earned when flying on service business.
Or is it once again one rule for them and another for us?
Flo
I presume this means that members of HM Forces (also crown servants) can now ignore the previous set of rules and do the same. I am looking forward to taking Mrs. Flo and the small Flo's on a long free holiday thanks to all of the airmiles I've earned when flying on service business.
Or is it once again one rule for them and another for us?
Flo
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My understanding of the Speakers position is that there is no specific prohibition against the use of officially funded airmiles being used in a private capacity by oxygen thieves such as him.
Unfortunately the MOD including those in uniform and, I believe, the rest of the CS are under a very specific prohibition, we would therefore be breaking Regs or CS code and open to disciplinary action. Sadly I would not expect anything else from a system which allows the representatives of the people i.e. Members of Parliament to claim many £1000s in allowances with little or no scrutiny yet ensures that anyone else using public funds (either as a subsistence claim or to buy spares for the many obsolescent systems we have in service) to go through more hoops than a Harlem Globetrotters basketball.
Unfortunately the MOD including those in uniform and, I believe, the rest of the CS are under a very specific prohibition, we would therefore be breaking Regs or CS code and open to disciplinary action. Sadly I would not expect anything else from a system which allows the representatives of the people i.e. Members of Parliament to claim many £1000s in allowances with little or no scrutiny yet ensures that anyone else using public funds (either as a subsistence claim or to buy spares for the many obsolescent systems we have in service) to go through more hoops than a Harlem Globetrotters basketball.
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There's a couple of choices open to make this just go away:
1. Let the traveller keep the miles as recompense for getting up early to go the airport in the first place, sitting in cramped conditions for many hours, waiting in lines etc.
2. Sign up to the airlines corporate deals, where the sponsor "company" ie. the govt in this case, keeps the miles, so the issue never arises in the first place.
3. Negotiate a deal with the airline so that the seat is cheaper, and no miles accrue.
What about "Tier points" though? Taking BA as an example, they award airmiles for every mile travelled, redeemable for free travel/hotels/rental cars etc, but also "Tier points" for loyalty. As an example, a transatlantic crossing gets 60 points each way in cattle. At 600 points, the Silver tier is reached. This gives a mileage multiplier for airmiles, and (a big benefit) access to the BA club lounges. At 1500 points, the Gold level is reached, which gives a bigger multiplier, access to the First lounges, guaranteed reservation (ie someone else will get bumped to get you a seat if necessary), and almost guaranteed upgrades. The point is, it is a benefit accorded to the traveller by the airline, and has almost no "money in pocket" value if airmiles are withheld. However, it has immense benefit in terms of ease and comfort of travel.
The airlines have been round the buoy many, many times on this, and know what motivates a (frequent) traveller to choose certain airlines, and certain routes. They're adept at it, because it's their business. Suddenly, it seems that Joe Public is jealous of public servants being accorded the same benefits as corporate travellers.
1. Let the traveller keep the miles as recompense for getting up early to go the airport in the first place, sitting in cramped conditions for many hours, waiting in lines etc.
2. Sign up to the airlines corporate deals, where the sponsor "company" ie. the govt in this case, keeps the miles, so the issue never arises in the first place.
3. Negotiate a deal with the airline so that the seat is cheaper, and no miles accrue.
What about "Tier points" though? Taking BA as an example, they award airmiles for every mile travelled, redeemable for free travel/hotels/rental cars etc, but also "Tier points" for loyalty. As an example, a transatlantic crossing gets 60 points each way in cattle. At 600 points, the Silver tier is reached. This gives a mileage multiplier for airmiles, and (a big benefit) access to the BA club lounges. At 1500 points, the Gold level is reached, which gives a bigger multiplier, access to the First lounges, guaranteed reservation (ie someone else will get bumped to get you a seat if necessary), and almost guaranteed upgrades. The point is, it is a benefit accorded to the traveller by the airline, and has almost no "money in pocket" value if airmiles are withheld. However, it has immense benefit in terms of ease and comfort of travel.
The airlines have been round the buoy many, many times on this, and know what motivates a (frequent) traveller to choose certain airlines, and certain routes. They're adept at it, because it's their business. Suddenly, it seems that Joe Public is jealous of public servants being accorded the same benefits as corporate travellers.
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This does remind me of a remark I overheard made by a Dutchman to a German representative in a certain European Multinational Centre.
"You never did tell me Edgar.
Did your Dad ever claim his air miles out of Stalingrad ?"
"You never did tell me Edgar.
Did your Dad ever claim his air miles out of Stalingrad ?"
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Or do what the US DoD does. i.e. allow personnel to use their air-miles, and all other incentive programs, for personal use, with conditions:
Or how about something like this:
http://www.fisherhouse.org/programs/heroMiles.shtml
C1200 RETAINING PROMOTIONAL ITEMS
A. General
1. A traveler on official business traveling at Government expense on the funds of an agency (see definition in Appendix A) may keep promotional material (including frequent traveler benefits such as points or miles,
upgrades, or access to carrier clubs or facilities) for personal use. This applies to promotional items received before, on, or after 31 December 2001.
2. The promotional material must be obtained under the same terms as those offered to the general public and must be at no additional Government cost.
3. Promotional items received for travel using funds other than those of an agency are not covered by this rule. Travelers should seek guidance from those funding authorities.)
A. General
1. A traveler on official business traveling at Government expense on the funds of an agency (see definition in Appendix A) may keep promotional material (including frequent traveler benefits such as points or miles,
upgrades, or access to carrier clubs or facilities) for personal use. This applies to promotional items received before, on, or after 31 December 2001.
2. The promotional material must be obtained under the same terms as those offered to the general public and must be at no additional Government cost.
3. Promotional items received for travel using funds other than those of an agency are not covered by this rule. Travelers should seek guidance from those funding authorities.)
http://www.fisherhouse.org/programs/heroMiles.shtml
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D-IFF ident
This is certainly a change from their early position which was the same as the UK rules now.
Roadsetr280
They asked BA especially to sign up to this in the early '90s; they refused. The problem is that all airlines might sign up therefore there would be no incentive for an individual to fly the flag. By allowing individuals to accrue airmiles they anticipated that the individual would influence which carrier was chosen.
Actually a deal was made with tickets substantially discounted although the price on teh ticket was at the full fare rate. This had a ratehr interesting and beneficial effect on our local budget and once we found out made gettign authorisation a doddle.
Flying on NATO business my ticket was procured through SBC. On return the tickets were submitted to SHAPE who refunded my unit at the face value. Not only was my travel free but the unit also gained a 20% or so bonus.
Or do what the US DoD does. i.e. allow personnel to use their air-miles, and all other incentive programs, for personal use, with conditions:
Roadsetr280
2. Sign up to the airlines corporate deals, where the sponsor "company" ie. the govt in this case, keeps the miles, so the issue never arises in the first place.
3. Negotiate a deal with the airline so that the seat is cheaper, and no miles accrue.
Flying on NATO business my ticket was procured through SBC. On return the tickets were submitted to SHAPE who refunded my unit at the face value. Not only was my travel free but the unit also gained a 20% or so bonus.
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I was thinking something like this.
I'm trying to not cast stones, but doesn't
amount to a member state defrauding NATO? Pay X and claim Y where X<Y? Isn't that the kind of thing that has got some people in lots of poo? Only in this case, it's not at a personal level, but at an organisational level.
I'm not casting stones because in my particular glass house I've earned and spent getting on for a million miles. I don't see why public servants shouldn't either, if, as Wader2 says, trying to negotiate out the miles has failed in the past.
I'm trying to not cast stones, but doesn't
On return the tickets were submitted to SHAPE who refunded my unit at the face value. Not only was my travel free but the unit also gained a 20% or so bonus.
I'm not casting stones because in my particular glass house I've earned and spent getting on for a million miles. I don't see why public servants shouldn't either, if, as Wader2 says, trying to negotiate out the miles has failed in the past.
What's the big deal?
It's more hassle for an airline to make some special arrangements for so-called 'corporate' air miles than it is for them just to let those who are obliged to travel for their employer be treated the same as anyone else.
The US system is pragmatic and sensible.
It's also a small palliative for those obliged to travel at ungodly hours and then stand in line waiting to be frisked by some bottom-fondling failed-wheelclamper in a yellow vest masquerading as a security checker....
In any case, if you are sensible and use a credit card effectively, you can run up a number of air miles every month which are nothing to do with your employer. Stick with the same airline for everything and the points build up quite well as time goes by - and who's to say whether 'your' air miles or your 'employer's' air miles are the ones you've used!
It's like saying that, back in the days of free gifts at petrol stations, any gifts you received whilst filling up your car for 'official' journeys should go to the MoD....
A small perk for those who rightly deserve it!
It's more hassle for an airline to make some special arrangements for so-called 'corporate' air miles than it is for them just to let those who are obliged to travel for their employer be treated the same as anyone else.
The US system is pragmatic and sensible.
It's also a small palliative for those obliged to travel at ungodly hours and then stand in line waiting to be frisked by some bottom-fondling failed-wheelclamper in a yellow vest masquerading as a security checker....
In any case, if you are sensible and use a credit card effectively, you can run up a number of air miles every month which are nothing to do with your employer. Stick with the same airline for everything and the points build up quite well as time goes by - and who's to say whether 'your' air miles or your 'employer's' air miles are the ones you've used!
It's like saying that, back in the days of free gifts at petrol stations, any gifts you received whilst filling up your car for 'official' journeys should go to the MoD....
A small perk for those who rightly deserve it!
Gentleman Aviator
It's like saying that, back in the days of free gifts at petrol stations, any gifts you received whilst filling up your car for 'official' journeys should go to the MoD
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I see rules have changed in the JSP in the past year or so and they have downgraded all flights over to 2 1/2 hours to Premium Economy from Club/Business.
Sneaked that one in under the radar.
Yes, I know body armour blah blah deployable air force rhubarb
Sneaked that one in under the radar.
Yes, I know body armour blah blah deployable air force rhubarb
You'll be telling me next that Squadron Leaders no longer travel First Class on what are jokingly termed 'trains' these days.....
Isn't 'Premium Economy' an oxymoron?
Isn't 'Premium Economy' an oxymoron?
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Have no idea if it's true or urban legend, but....
I heard that the MOD tried to make Virgin give it the air miles from personnel travelling on the Heathrow-Dulles trooper. Virgin refused, apparently saying that air-miles were nothing to do with who paid for the ticket but purely a gift to the traveller.
In addition, has anyone ever actually tried to use BA air miles for business? A colleague tried to use his to upgrade on our last trip to the US and was told that air miles couldn't be used with the HMG bookings.
N Joe
I heard that the MOD tried to make Virgin give it the air miles from personnel travelling on the Heathrow-Dulles trooper. Virgin refused, apparently saying that air-miles were nothing to do with who paid for the ticket but purely a gift to the traveller.
In addition, has anyone ever actually tried to use BA air miles for business? A colleague tried to use his to upgrade on our last trip to the US and was told that air miles couldn't be used with the HMG bookings.
N Joe
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Beags,
I am afraid you are correct. CinC Air has stated that economy for all flights and standard on rail is to be used by all personnel under the auspices of his command. Which still means that other units can travel business regardless of rank. I don't mind trying to save a bit of cash but would prefer it if we all (UK PLC) had the same rules, that goes for civil serpents too.
RS
I am afraid you are correct. CinC Air has stated that economy for all flights and standard on rail is to be used by all personnel under the auspices of his command. Which still means that other units can travel business regardless of rank. I don't mind trying to save a bit of cash but would prefer it if we all (UK PLC) had the same rules, that goes for civil serpents too.
RS
