Jeremy Vine show today...wearing uniform in public
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Jeremy Vine show today...wearing uniform in public
I am surprised nobody has commented on the item in the show today concerning the issue of Mil wearing uniform in public....I could post a link, but if you go to the Beeb website you can select and listen for yourselves... abit of sub-editing for those who missed it....For, a Lab MP...against...some ( have to be careful here 
from the risibly named "Respect" org). Lab MP does quite well with the case.. repeats my own and no doubt many other views re how the PIRA stopped Mil wearing uniform on public for obvious reasons etc...compared how the cousins are treated and basically produced a cohesive argument for 
Enterstruck.....I have rarely heard such unadulterated garbage proposed as a counter argument in any circumstances....seemingly the poor dear was traumatised when he went to Spain during Franco's rule and saw the Guardia on the streets..with guns ! ...he semed to think the UK Mil were the same btw..oh, and that people in uniform frightened civilians..actually, with some of the current generation he might be right here....and that we sort of lived in a militaristic state...the debate covered a range of issues..some tenuous at best..about uniforms of any hue being worn in public..and then came the phone in's...one from a RAF guy north of the border who said the population despised him simply for being in the Mil..an god knows what it would be like if he wore his uniform in public...and another from somebody who was landed at Brize..and had to change in the toilets due to a policy at LHR of not having Mil in uniform in case it upsets other pax....that's as I recall the gist of his comments and I stand corrected if this policy is not the case.
I have to say as well that, in this case, said Mr Vine seemed to side with the against faction......sadly.
Personally, I think personnel should be seen, in public, in uniform and it goes without saying that the great British public could benefit from some serious Mil PR...so no chance of this ever happening of course. As for the "policy makers" who feel threatened by the sight of Mil personnel in public or in their own little feifdom...three little questions ...would you (a) wish to socialise with them (b) trust them in any form of emergency and (c) trust them with your life....one answer here.
from the risibly named "Respect" org). Lab MP does quite well with the case.. repeats my own and no doubt many other views re how the PIRA stopped Mil wearing uniform on public for obvious reasons etc...compared how the cousins are treated and basically produced a cohesive argument for Enter
struck.....I have rarely heard such unadulterated garbage proposed as a counter argument in any circumstances....seemingly the poor dear was traumatised when he went to Spain during Franco's rule and saw the Guardia on the streets..with guns ! ...he semed to think the UK Mil were the same btw..oh, and that people in uniform frightened civilians..actually, with some of the current generation he might be right here....and that we sort of lived in a militaristic state...the debate covered a range of issues..some tenuous at best..about uniforms of any hue being worn in public..and then came the phone in's...one from a RAF guy north of the border who said the population despised him simply for being in the Mil..an god knows what it would be like if he wore his uniform in public...and another from somebody who was landed at Brize..and had to change in the toilets due to a policy at LHR of not having Mil in uniform in case it upsets other pax....that's as I recall the gist of his comments and I stand corrected if this policy is not the case.I have to say as well that, in this case, said Mr Vine seemed to side with the against faction......sadly.
Personally, I think personnel should be seen, in public, in uniform and it goes without saying that the great British public could benefit from some serious Mil PR...so no chance of this ever happening of course. As for the "policy makers" who feel threatened by the sight of Mil personnel in public or in their own little feifdom...three little questions ...would you (a) wish to socialise with them (b) trust them in any form of emergency and (c) trust them with your life....one answer here.
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I thought it was rubbish programme, but the sort of thing we have become used to with Vine. He is not helped by a production team that selects subjects based on their likeliehood of being controversial rather than their level of importance to the public in general.
Vine is constantly on the look-out for an argument, but he lacks the intellect to understand the detail of the issues covered, and he does not have the capacity to listen to what his guests are saying whilst preparing his next 'killer question'.
I think he sees himself as a lunchtime Paxman, but he is strictly second division material.
The very worst moment today was (I think) the last comment he read out which went along the lines of all Service personnel being scum who go around the World murdering indiscriminately on behalf of this Government. In this clown's view, we should all wear uniform so that he (and the morons like him) would be able to identify those who needed red paint throwing over them. The fact that Vine neither commented on nor qualified this statement meant it was not far short of incitement.
STH
Vine is constantly on the look-out for an argument, but he lacks the intellect to understand the detail of the issues covered, and he does not have the capacity to listen to what his guests are saying whilst preparing his next 'killer question'.
I think he sees himself as a lunchtime Paxman, but he is strictly second division material.
The very worst moment today was (I think) the last comment he read out which went along the lines of all Service personnel being scum who go around the World murdering indiscriminately on behalf of this Government. In this clown's view, we should all wear uniform so that he (and the morons like him) would be able to identify those who needed red paint throwing over them. The fact that Vine neither commented on nor qualified this statement meant it was not far short of incitement.
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From my experiance, if you wear uniform on certain days, i.e Remembrance Sunday, etc. thats ok, but any other day of the year its a no no. Or thats the reaction I got the one time I got lost and stumbled to the bank during lunch.
Also I find the guidelines change from station to station. Some encourage it as showing the RAF face to the public. Others say not too. Who knows?
Also I find the guidelines change from station to station. Some encourage it as showing the RAF face to the public. Others say not too. Who knows?
We had the study team here at Rock HQ with the MP and a few other hangers on. The three groups recommended quite a few options. The study that he will report to the PM with asks how the Public could better appreciate the military at large?
We suggested many things such as greater freebies (free FA Cup tickets for a small %age of troops, discounts on cars, tax etc) Parades etc. The focus was more inclined toward them doing something for us, not the other way round.
The said MP rattled on about 'open days' and parades etc. We had to point out to him that these would inconvenience the serviceman rather than us gain greater public recognition. He liked to force his opinions onto us rather than listen to what we had to say. He mentioned the uniform in public and we retorted that it was ingrained from the PIRA days NOT to do so; it's a big cultural change for many people, in a time, one could argue, of increased threat from rouge factions in our own community!!!
I get the impression that Gordon is trying to find ways to lessen the blow of PR08, which will I'm sure be announced in the next few weeks as a major cut in defence capability, dressed up and spun with some left wing mumbo jumbo as good for the service. There is already talk of big cuts and delays to RAF / RN programmes. This is after all a rumour network, but I think that the likelihood of Brown supporting the very people he and his cronies have sent into combat (in their name) is slim. He despises 'defence' and only wishes to syphon the defence budget elsewhere to cover his inadequacies from his time as Chancellor.
May they suffer from the pain of what they have sowed in the coming years and all rot away like the decaying vegetable roots from where they are derived.
Grim
We suggested many things such as greater freebies (free FA Cup tickets for a small %age of troops, discounts on cars, tax etc) Parades etc. The focus was more inclined toward them doing something for us, not the other way round.
The said MP rattled on about 'open days' and parades etc. We had to point out to him that these would inconvenience the serviceman rather than us gain greater public recognition. He liked to force his opinions onto us rather than listen to what we had to say. He mentioned the uniform in public and we retorted that it was ingrained from the PIRA days NOT to do so; it's a big cultural change for many people, in a time, one could argue, of increased threat from rouge factions in our own community!!!
I get the impression that Gordon is trying to find ways to lessen the blow of PR08, which will I'm sure be announced in the next few weeks as a major cut in defence capability, dressed up and spun with some left wing mumbo jumbo as good for the service. There is already talk of big cuts and delays to RAF / RN programmes. This is after all a rumour network, but I think that the likelihood of Brown supporting the very people he and his cronies have sent into combat (in their name) is slim. He despises 'defence' and only wishes to syphon the defence budget elsewhere to cover his inadequacies from his time as Chancellor.
May they suffer from the pain of what they have sowed in the coming years and all rot away like the decaying vegetable roots from where they are derived.
Grim
I heard the debate, and was slightly confused by the chap who claimed to be RAF returning from 10 months in A-stan, following on from 10 months in Iraq and was told to change in the toilets at Brize. No offence to the RAF, but since when did you guys start doing 10 month tours?
Not really surprised by what I've just seen on the Beeb site, Just posted my two pence worth anyway.
I've lived in France for a while, local town is not a stone's throw from the base of one of the RCP's ( roughly Parachute Infantry Regiment). The boys and girls are oft as not in town in uniform ( and also in the local airport when heading out for warmer climes) ...not an eyebrow is raised, they are part of the local scene. Never any visible aggro and as far as I'm aware the locals don't wet themselves at the sight of the uniform.......
Now I remember all the stuff about the PIRA and no grobags at SHQ but in this day and age the Forces needs to be visible...are the British Public really as wet as Jeremy Vine is implying?
edited to add: I've just remembered some of the Dads even do the "school run" in uniform - would that be allowed in Blighty?
I've lived in France for a while, local town is not a stone's throw from the base of one of the RCP's ( roughly Parachute Infantry Regiment). The boys and girls are oft as not in town in uniform ( and also in the local airport when heading out for warmer climes) ...not an eyebrow is raised, they are part of the local scene. Never any visible aggro and as far as I'm aware the locals don't wet themselves at the sight of the uniform.......
Now I remember all the stuff about the PIRA and no grobags at SHQ but in this day and age the Forces needs to be visible...are the British Public really as wet as Jeremy Vine is implying?
edited to add: I've just remembered some of the Dads even do the "school run" in uniform - would that be allowed in Blighty?
Last edited by wiggy; 21st Feb 2008 at 07:51.
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Vine's show confuses me.
He tries to cover too much ground in the time he's got, and he's forever hurrying his guests from the minute he poses his first question.
It got to the point where I just couldn't bear to listen. He rarely does his topics justice in terms of time allocated to discussing them, and then moves on, but not before he wraps up the topic in a typically biased manner.
The show tries to do too much, but ends up failing on just about every front.
He tries to cover too much ground in the time he's got, and he's forever hurrying his guests from the minute he poses his first question.
It got to the point where I just couldn't bear to listen. He rarely does his topics justice in terms of time allocated to discussing them, and then moves on, but not before he wraps up the topic in a typically biased manner.
The show tries to do too much, but ends up failing on just about every front.
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30 + years in and I drive the 14 miles each day covered up........... seeing the recent sentencing of the "crew" about to behead a Muslim soldier for Al Jazeera TV I am so grateful there are so many other numpties out there keeping me off the "easy to film" list
After 31 years in the RAF, where, right at the start I used to be guaranteed a lift when hitching home in uniform, I am now more than happy (and encouraged) to wear my RNZAF uniform anywhere in NZ and currently, on duty, in Canada.
It reminds people that NZ has a defence force and also reminds me, daily, what I represent.
That may sound silly and egoistic to some folk but its a small thing that matters (to me anyway).
It reminds people that NZ has a defence force and also reminds me, daily, what I represent.
That may sound silly and egoistic to some folk but its a small thing that matters (to me anyway).
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As long as it gets left to personal choice, I don't see why it should matter to anyone else except the military personnel themselves. However, I'd dread to think that our military 'leaders' might start insisting that uniform wearing should be maximized in public as some sort of PR exercise, including changing the London policy (you just know anything is possible with those lot right now!). There is a balance to be struck between justified pride and wearing a target set for some crazy to take an opportunity shot (even if it was a harmless one). It is not as if we hear a similar sought of public support here in the UK as you get in out in the US for their troops, nowhere even close (and I'm not sure that would be strictly British anyway (different debate I think)). Surely, Vine (the ****!) and his (BBC) programme are testament to that.
I'm also not sure wearing uniform in public (outside of parades) will heighten public awareness rather than giving the all-powerful minorities another chance to ridicule 'the norm' and attack the very people that facilitate them being who they are (whoever that might be and, by the way, I really don't care).
Have times changed since the mid-forties or what? The mere fact that a debate like that can occur on our national radios and display such a lack of support towards our troops says a lot about the state of the nation. There's freedom of speech and well there is.... well .... in my opinion, it seems we've all gone nuts!
I'm also not sure wearing uniform in public (outside of parades) will heighten public awareness rather than giving the all-powerful minorities another chance to ridicule 'the norm' and attack the very people that facilitate them being who they are (whoever that might be and, by the way, I really don't care).
Have times changed since the mid-forties or what? The mere fact that a debate like that can occur on our national radios and display such a lack of support towards our troops says a lot about the state of the nation. There's freedom of speech and well there is.... well .... in my opinion, it seems we've all gone nuts!
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The sight of Canadian Forces members in uniform on the subway is a not infrequent one on my Toronto subway commute. Nobody bats an eyelid so far as I see - and Toronto is hardly a hotbed of pro-Forces thinking.
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It's not about wearing uniform in public. It's about the complete lack of respect for the Armed Forces driven by left wing dogma, a piss poor government, and a demoralised population
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You've Earned the Right!
Totally agree with the comments above, especially Pacamack.
Speaking as a another strawbwerry mivvi, I think the more common the wearing of Military uniform becomes on our streets, the more the UK public will be aware of and appreciate the efforts and sacrifices you guys and gals make.
To borrow from my Army colleagues - Crack on!
HILF
Speaking as a another strawbwerry mivvi, I think the more common the wearing of Military uniform becomes on our streets, the more the UK public will be aware of and appreciate the efforts and sacrifices you guys and gals make.
To borrow from my Army colleagues - Crack on!
HILF
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As a former RAF officer (left 19years ago at 38/16), what I'd like to ask is when did it become acceptable to appear in uniform in public without hat on head? I have frequently seen officers wearing uniform publicly but hatless. One of them was a Wg Cdr whom one would have expected to uphold standards, and, no, he wasn't RAFVR.
In my local Waitrose the other day I noticed a Flt Lt doing his shopping while wearing a flying suit. He too was hatless. What has happened?
In my local Waitrose the other day I noticed a Flt Lt doing his shopping while wearing a flying suit. He too was hatless. What has happened?
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Wingswinger, I am with you fella. If you are going to do it, do it properly, wear your chuffing hat and don't take it off when you walk in a shop. If you are going to wear it, wear it smartly.
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Tinfoil hats at the ready.
I get the impression that Gordon is trying to find ways to lessen the blow of PR08, which will I'm sure be announced in the next few weeks as a major cut in defence capability, dressed up and spun with some left wing mumbo jumbo as good for the service. There is already talk of big cuts and delays to RAF / RN programmes. This is after all a rumour network, but I think that the likelihood of Brown supporting the very people he and his cronies have sent into combat (in their name) is slim. He despises 'defence' and only wishes to syphon the defence budget elsewhere to cover his inadequacies from his time as Chancellor.
Surely the public would realise that news reels of uniformed personel swarming out of underground stations and down whitehall on the way to main building with Cyclop's voiceover talking of peace dividends and advanced technologies reducing the manning requirements was but a crude attempt to manipulate their opinion. Surely our lords and masters would not stoop that low?
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Take your b****y hat off when you walk in a shop for goodness sake. You are inside. It winds me up to see people with such ridiculously high standards; I suggest that these people also wear their headgear when in bed and in the bath! - barking mad!