Jailed Flt Lt
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Having read this, the one thing that always saddens me about these sorts of threads is the amount of assasins creeping out of the woodwork, rubbing their hands with glee. He may or may not have been a plonker but he's not the person I see right now, queuing up to anonymously stick the knife in someone when they're down. I wonder.. just how much difference is there between the backstabbers and him, and just who is worse?
We all have feet of clay, but there's no need to be so unsavoury about gloating.
We all have feet of clay, but there's no need to be so unsavoury about gloating.
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Minigun,
I didn't have you in mind when I wrote that and I agree with your last point. No system is perfect but those who allowed things to escalate as far as they did, need to carry some collective responsibilty.. although of course, the buck stops with the person involved.
I accept that much of what the military does, needs to be treated differently to how civvie street is run but there is far too laissez faire and management self preservation when the **** hits the fan. There needs to be more transparent accountability (in this matter for instance) to ensure the military preserves a unique way of operating and being ringfenced accordingly, to becoming anachronistic, arrogant and unnaccountable.
Someone was responsible for this man, and thats as good a place to start as any. With regards to the matter of the ammunition, and to keep things in perspective..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-20325242/
I didn't have you in mind when I wrote that and I agree with your last point. No system is perfect but those who allowed things to escalate as far as they did, need to carry some collective responsibilty.. although of course, the buck stops with the person involved.
I accept that much of what the military does, needs to be treated differently to how civvie street is run but there is far too laissez faire and management self preservation when the **** hits the fan. There needs to be more transparent accountability (in this matter for instance) to ensure the military preserves a unique way of operating and being ringfenced accordingly, to becoming anachronistic, arrogant and unnaccountable.
Someone was responsible for this man, and thats as good a place to start as any. With regards to the matter of the ammunition, and to keep things in perspective..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-20325242/
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There are definitely Scimitar Horned Oryx in South Africa but I don't know if its an antelope or not.
TIGS2 - ever thought about becoming a magistrate?? I'm sure our criminal fraternity would love to appear in front of you to be told that they were obviously misunderstood and that they were forgiven as long as they promised not to do it again. Bloody liberals.
TIGS2 - ever thought about becoming a magistrate?? I'm sure our criminal fraternity would love to appear in front of you to be told that they were obviously misunderstood and that they were forgiven as long as they promised not to do it again. Bloody liberals.
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"Minigundiplomat" ( which is rather a surprising self epithet for a 36 year old officer, I would have thought) I do not hide behind semantics.
Perhaps you might try the same and stand up in front of your Station and announce (sic)
"I'm sure I could have lowered my standards far enough for a ground branch comission."
Or are they already well familiar with your attitude?
Perhaps you might try the same and stand up in front of your Station and announce (sic)
"I'm sure I could have lowered my standards far enough for a ground branch comission."
Or are they already well familiar with your attitude?
Minigun et al
On the subject of 1st ROs and command chains of this individual and responsibility...
Do you really believe that they are?! They would need to search their subordinates, their luggage and their house every time they returned from detachment. On the subject of the forgery, would you check every subordinates service record? Even then would you know what you are looking for? I understand from scuttlebutt that this individual even faked unit stamps and letterheads (unconfirmed). Furthermore, I understand that he may well have been entitled to wear the parachute qual badge without wings (unconfirmed)- do you know the difference in criteria and would you spot it?
I'm afraid this young Walt has only himself to blame. However, I do believe that the sentence is harsh (I'm with Tigs on this one) but at the same time I guess the GCM wanted to deter the thousands returning from det every year?
LJ
PS with you on the antelope banter...
On the subject of 1st ROs and command chains of this individual and responsibility...
Do you really believe that they are?! They would need to search their subordinates, their luggage and their house every time they returned from detachment. On the subject of the forgery, would you check every subordinates service record? Even then would you know what you are looking for? I understand from scuttlebutt that this individual even faked unit stamps and letterheads (unconfirmed). Furthermore, I understand that he may well have been entitled to wear the parachute qual badge without wings (unconfirmed)- do you know the difference in criteria and would you spot it?
I'm afraid this young Walt has only himself to blame. However, I do believe that the sentence is harsh (I'm with Tigs on this one) but at the same time I guess the GCM wanted to deter the thousands returning from det every year?
LJ
PS with you on the antelope banter...
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Leon,
If a copper knocked on my door one evening and told me that my children had been smashing windows, I wouldn't say ".. and? Do you expect me to keep an eye on them all the time?". I have responsibility, and so does this man's chain of command, and (at least to an extent) it has to accept a sense of culpability in allowing this debacle to develop.
Of course, if its too difficult to establish at a glance, a man's service record and be able to identify what he has and hasn't done..
If a copper knocked on my door one evening and told me that my children had been smashing windows, I wouldn't say ".. and? Do you expect me to keep an eye on them all the time?". I have responsibility, and so does this man's chain of command, and (at least to an extent) it has to accept a sense of culpability in allowing this debacle to develop.
Of course, if its too difficult to establish at a glance, a man's service record and be able to identify what he has and hasn't done..
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Whether he's a walt or not, nice guy or a legend in his own lunchtime doesnt really matter regarding the jail term.
He contravened regulations regarding ammunition and firearms. Many blokes have done it, I'll admit to having the odd live round laying around having found it in my kit and not bothered to hand in (all gone now though). But he got caught and if you get caught you should get the book thrown at you to deter others.
He contravened regulations regarding ammunition and firearms. Many blokes have done it, I'll admit to having the odd live round laying around having found it in my kit and not bothered to hand in (all gone now though). But he got caught and if you get caught you should get the book thrown at you to deter others.
Al
Point accepted, although in mitigation of the leadership he did appear to go to extraordinary effort to decieve. We're not talking about a handwritten amendment to a green card, but a complex forgery job akin to Colditz or The Great Escape!
Would I have spotted the alleged forgery? I very much doubt it...
LJ
Point accepted, although in mitigation of the leadership he did appear to go to extraordinary effort to decieve. We're not talking about a handwritten amendment to a green card, but a complex forgery job akin to Colditz or The Great Escape!
Would I have spotted the alleged forgery? I very much doubt it...
LJ
Or are they already well familiar with your attitude?
Many find it refreshing, some find it rude, others just take it for what it is, one person's opinion.
More people have benefitted than become upset. Leon, I take your point but if you know your chaps, you'll know who's bags are likely to contain more than dirty laundry.
Think back to day one, week one at IOT/Basic Trg. When someone screwed up were they punished, or was everyone punished?
That was to instill collective responsibility. There is still a place for it.
Anyway, has anyone seen my Hampshire Golden Horned Deer?
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Like most of us, I do find it disturbing that what seems to be a prima facie case of dangerous "Walting" within the Service got so far, apart from the associated munitions issue.
Outside it seems to be alarmingly commonplace, witness some of the Websites devoted to the subject.
A fairly well known Group M.D. I knew some years ago in the Defence Industry was always, "The youngest WWII R.N. corvette captain" to an R.A.F. audience.
He then transformed into " The youngest R.A.F. aircraft captain on the Berlin Air Lift" when confronted by the Senior Service.
Immediate wry smiles all round from his managers, but deemed harmless: until it was seen to be associated with other, more serious, delusions, which came close to bringing the Group down.
One wonders what action , if any ,the Service might now consider in order to avoid any future repetition of this type of incident. Not easy.
Outside it seems to be alarmingly commonplace, witness some of the Websites devoted to the subject.
A fairly well known Group M.D. I knew some years ago in the Defence Industry was always, "The youngest WWII R.N. corvette captain" to an R.A.F. audience.
He then transformed into " The youngest R.A.F. aircraft captain on the Berlin Air Lift" when confronted by the Senior Service.
Immediate wry smiles all round from his managers, but deemed harmless: until it was seen to be associated with other, more serious, delusions, which came close to bringing the Group down.
One wonders what action , if any ,the Service might now consider in order to avoid any future repetition of this type of incident. Not easy.
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I had a Flt Cdr who was once confined to the Mess because, when arrested for speeding on the M4, he claimed to be 14 Int and tailing an ASU. The Flt did the forthcoming NI tour inder the FS, he stayed behind and we never saw him again. Harmless..? I didn't mind him I have to say, and what he did was different to a sustained effort to deceive. He flapped, thought he could talk his way out of it and got caught out.
Yup, this guy has got no one but himself to blame, but consider this. If a successful job applicant (in civvy street) presented you with references that you don't bother following up on and which turned out to be a load of b
cks, and he/she turned out to be a disaster.. then you have no one but yourself to blame. And the personnel manager would certainly be sweating and waiting for a P45. Are we saying the same rules don't apply here, or that we're not dealing with stakes that are high? Surely, we're not suggesting that we don't have the means to check whether presented in-house Q's have validity?
Yup, this guy has got no one but himself to blame, but consider this. If a successful job applicant (in civvy street) presented you with references that you don't bother following up on and which turned out to be a load of b
cks, and he/she turned out to be a disaster.. then you have no one but yourself to blame. And the personnel manager would certainly be sweating and waiting for a P45. Are we saying the same rules don't apply here, or that we're not dealing with stakes that are high? Surely, we're not suggesting that we don't have the means to check whether presented in-house Q's have validity?
Last edited by Al R; 22nd Feb 2008 at 10:11.
PCD
I don't think your taking this thread seriously, the world-wide distribution of medium sized Bovid should not be the subject of frivolity!
PS, did I mention I have been selected by NASA to join their Astronaut program for the next round of lunar landings?
I don't think your taking this thread seriously, the world-wide distribution of medium sized Bovid should not be the subject of frivolity!
PS, did I mention I have been selected by NASA to join their Astronaut program for the next round of lunar landings?
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Quick - Inform roonys line manager / specialist stakeholder interaction specialist / chain of command that he is making strange claims that are obviously untrue.
We wouldnt want him to end in jail. It would be all our fault.
We wouldnt want him to end in jail. It would be all our fault.
Im a little confused now. Are they called Antelope because they 'lope' around, or is the verb 'to lope' derived from Antelope like antics?
It's a bit of a chicken and egg conundrum isn't it? Can anyone help?
It's a bit of a chicken and egg conundrum isn't it? Can anyone help?
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Al R, you are right about quals. How many 'doctors and dentists and even surgeons' have blagged their way into jobs and survived for years?
Onthe subject of responsibilities we had a Master Aircrew who was an alcoholic. We all knew he was a dypsomanic and not a pleasant drunk either. For some reason the hierarchy didn't do anything about it. Maybe it came into the TFD category.
They were on short 2-years tours (I'll be outta here soon); he was a warrant officer and teflon-coated we can't put him on formal warning; he is OK at his job (he wasn't).
He was even posted to an Ops job on hold for the Nimwacs, then his new station got him sorted.
I don't pretend it is easy but too many people find an excuse for inaction.
Onthe subject of responsibilities we had a Master Aircrew who was an alcoholic. We all knew he was a dypsomanic and not a pleasant drunk either. For some reason the hierarchy didn't do anything about it. Maybe it came into the TFD category.
They were on short 2-years tours (I'll be outta here soon); he was a warrant officer and teflon-coated we can't put him on formal warning; he is OK at his job (he wasn't).
He was even posted to an Ops job on hold for the Nimwacs, then his new station got him sorted.
I don't pretend it is easy but too many people find an excuse for inaction.
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<<Wearing a bandana and combat trousers he is the spitting image of Sylvester Stallone's character in the popular films. He said: "I've always worn something on my head, usually a cap, but I started wearing a bandana too. In the films Rambo wears a red one but mine's camouflage green. They're similar enough though. "I wear combat trousers quite a lot, so I look just like him. John does not just keep up appearances with his love of everything 'Rambo'.
The charity worker helps teach outdoor survival tactics at his local Air Training Corps. He said: "I really am the real-life Rambo. Generally people think twice about what they say to me. Nobody messes with me. Sometimes people don't believe I'm serious at first. They just think it's quite amusing. Then they realise the truth." He has honed the same skills as his icon, making himself an expert on aircraft, weaponry and survival. He said: "I'm really into aircraft and weaponry, I've been into it for a long time. I am the chairman of the civilian committee for the 1073 Skegness Squadron Air Training Corps so that is right along the line of my interests.">>
Yup. Splitting image. And who allowed him to work with kids??
The charity worker helps teach outdoor survival tactics at his local Air Training Corps. He said: "I really am the real-life Rambo. Generally people think twice about what they say to me. Nobody messes with me. Sometimes people don't believe I'm serious at first. They just think it's quite amusing. Then they realise the truth." He has honed the same skills as his icon, making himself an expert on aircraft, weaponry and survival. He said: "I'm really into aircraft and weaponry, I've been into it for a long time. I am the chairman of the civilian committee for the 1073 Skegness Squadron Air Training Corps so that is right along the line of my interests.">>
Yup. Splitting image. And who allowed him to work with kids??
I like how his signature is in block caps, and he claims he could survive in the woods.
bbc,
How did you find this on google? I think it maybe playing up a bit at the moment 'cos when I search for a reference to my upcoming moon trip it comes up with bugger all....
...hang on, Jonathan Ross is on the other line...
bbc,
How did you find this on google? I think it maybe playing up a bit at the moment 'cos when I search for a reference to my upcoming moon trip it comes up with bugger all....
...hang on, Jonathan Ross is on the other line...