Information Needed – Aircrew trades

[Nichollg]

I am a collector of Wing and Brevet of the British Commonwealth and am researching this along with Aircrew Trades of the British, Australian and New Zealand Defence forces
But I am stuck on some dates and trades and was hoping the collective mind of the forum could help me through
British information
What dates were the following trades created?
Parachute Jump Instructor, Air Quartermaster
What dates were the following trades ceased?
Meteorological Air Observer, Air Gunner, Air Bomber
Did the RAF have a Air Crewman or Helicopter Crewman and if so any information eg dates and brevet lettering etc
Any information about the trades and Brevets to do with the AAC and the FAA both current, post WW2 and during WW2
Australian Information
What dates were the following trades created and ended?
Loadmaster, Crewman, Gunner, Crew technical (and the role they preformed), Flight Steward, Fighter controller (flying ground crew I know), Flight Technician (flying ground crew I know), Air Gunner, Air Bomber.
Any information about the trades and Brevets to do with the Australian AAC and the RAN FAA both current, post WW2 and during WW2
New Zealand Information
What dates were the following trades created?
Air Engineer, Air Ordanceman, Air Lodamaster, Helicopter Crewman, flight Steward, Parachute Jump instructor, Air Electronic Operator, Observer
What dates were the following trades ceased?
Air Gunner, Air Bomber
And again any information about the trades and Brevets to do with the New Zealand army pilot when they had them and the RNZN both current, post WW2 and during WW2. Also does any know when the RNZAF changed from RAF style brevet (half wing with no crown) to the current New Zealand style (half wing with crown).
This would help me out greatly. Any photos of uniform or brevet would be great too.
Thanks all for your help

[L J R]

Next question, geometry please.....

[Terry McCassey]

For the time you will wait for a sensible answer here, you might as well try a Google search !

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

When I'm back in my treadmill, I'll send you a link to the Air Historical Branch. They are helpful.

[minigundiplomat]

Up until 2003, the RAF brevets were N (Navigator) E (Engineer) AE (Air Electonics Operator) AS (Air Signallar/Linguist) and LM (Loadmaster, including Helicopter Crewman). In 2003, the Airmen Aircrew sustainability study introduced the WSOp (Weapon System Operator) branch encompassing E,AE, AS, and LM branches with a single brevet (letters RAF with a crown). This was also the same brevet as the Weapon Systems Officers (Navigators).

Those who had qualified before 2003 were given the choice, most choose to wear the old brevets, though a few 'company men' adopted the new brevet.

The Australian Army wear a 'L' brevet for Loadmasters and an 'AT' brevet for groundcrew turned Air Technicians (Crew Chiefs).

The RAF also have a brevet for AT's, but only on a single type, and they are not commonly associated with the mainstream aircrew.

Hope this helps

MGD

[trap one]

Brevets

Along with RAF AT's there are FC's some of which are worn by RAAF qualifiers.
FC standing for Fighter Control. They were first awarded IRC in the late 80's.

Trap One

[Wensleydale]

I thought that FC Brevet was an Italian football team!

[Boldface]

The first FC brevets were awarded to Hamish M and Roger S at Lossie in 1983. The first AT brevets were awarded in 89 at Geilenkirchen.

I understand that a new 'IA' brevet is imminent for Image Analysts on 5 Sqn.

[talk_shy_tall_knight]

Here's some info on the British ones.

http://www.rafweb.org/Badges3.htm

http://www.rafweb.org/Badges3A.htm

[Bonza Old Chap]

Some NZ answer

Not sure when those brevets started but.. the AEOP one ceased on the 1st July 07 when the trade was merged with the Nav trade. The new brevet is the AW brevet for Air Warfare and then you have AWS - Air Warfare Specialist for NCOs (replacing AEOPs) and AWO - Air warfare Officer which replaced the Nav and AEO. NZ aircrew are still allowed to wear the AE brevet until they convert onto the upgraded Herc or P3

[Nichollg]

"I understand that a new 'IA' brevet is imminent for Image Analysts on 5 Sqn."

Thanks for the heads up on the new IA brevet. I assume that the Image Analyst will be a airbourne groundcrew role any idea on its creation date? Why don't they use
WSOp(EW) for the airbourne component of 5 sqn? They must be similar jobs

[Bonza Old Chap]

brevets

Hi. Hadnt heard of the IA brevet. Will be interesting to see if it does get approved. AWS is the new AEOP and they apparently will be trained in all sensors.

[charliegolf]

ROV Badge

Was there ever a 'Radio Op Voice' brevet?

I understand they worked on the super sneaky beaky "We won't even confirm it has 2 wings" aircraft type that rhymes with 'Nimrod'.

Oops, check the street for Omegas. I wear an Omega. Never mind.

CG

[cum grano salis]

MPG Sounds good but..............

MGD. Nice try but not quite on target.
The AE brevet was worn by Air Electronic Officers as well as Air Electronic Operators. Air Signallers wore S not AS.

Some still wear them. They are either proud to be what they are.....or lazy!

[Melchett01]

Hadnt heard of the IA brevet. Will be interesting to see if it does get approved

Already approved old boy - and I believe the first ones have now been issued, a good friend of mine being one of the recipients ..... assuming he managed to not get chopped!

The 5 (AC) Sqn jets have 3 IAs down the back and a mission commander, however, I stand to be corrected - the manning changed so much on the rear crew components I still think the crews wonder who is flying on a regular basis!

They are in the same mold as the FC and AT brevets in that they are more mission crew than air crew and have largely been issued to Army IAs rather than RAF aircrews. IIRC that is because the Army wanted some sort of return on their investment in the ac and this was one way of doing it. I also vaguely remember being told that the Sqn 2ic was an Army Major.

Anyway, all the blurb aside, the IA brevets are out there and in use - it is odd seeing Army types wearing RAF brevets!

Oh and no, the IA job on Sentinel is very different to the EW job on Nimrods!

[Magic Mushroom]

Imagery Analyst (IA) brevets will be worn by RAF OSB(Int) and TG14, and Army personnel (predominantly Int Corps) employed as Imagery Analysts on the Sentinel. I understand that it's been approved but the first have not yet been awarded. That event should happen in the next few months.

The Sentinel is crewed by 2 x RAF pilots, 1 x RAF WSO Airborne Mission Controller and 2 x IAs who will be a mix of RAF WSOp(EW) (who will retain their original brevet) and TG14 SNCOs, and Army personnel. A small number of OSB(Int) JOs will also be employed as Airborne Collection Managers on some missions to augment the IAs.

Regards,
MM

[minigundiplomat]

MGD. Nice try but not quite on target.
The AE brevet was worn by Air Electronic Officers as well as Air Electronic Operators. Air Signallers wore S not AS.

Some still wear them. They are either proud to be what they are.....or lazy!

I happily stand corrected. In my defence, the bloke wasn't getting much in the way of help when I posted.

[Nichollg]

Hi. Hadnt heard of the IA brevet. Will be interesting to see if it does get approved. AWS is the new AEOP and they apparently will be trained in all sensors.

Bonzo Old Chap.
IA will be a british brevet not a RNZAF one

Thanks all for you replies. Interesting information on the IA Brevet, Never would find this info on google

[trippb]

Just to add a little factual detail MM.

The TG14 branch does not exist anymore. They have been swallowed up by TG11. But the rest of your para is correct. You have an informed view ol' chap.

[Magic Mushroom]

Good point trippb. I'm afraid my increasingly addled brain struggles to keep up with the latest Service reorganisations, restructuring, rebranding and re badging!!

I must write a strong letter of complaint to HQ 11 Gp, cc PMA at Innsworth.

Meanwhile, good luck to all the impending IAs straining at the leash to be let loose with Sentinel.

Regards,
MM