Potential security risk - thoughts?
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Up in rural Cumbria, we were asked to complete similar school census in December (didn't ask if we were military or not) but did ask for ethnicity! I, with a squeal of delight, ticked 'Other - Polynesian', ensuring that our Council met one of it's diversity targets. I can't wait for the next newsletter to be delivered in Cook Island Maori!
Had me in stitches.
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The West Wilts MP Andrew Murrison has been campaigning for additional funding for schools with a high military contingent. Maybe it is his camapign that has sparked the trawl.
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A reply from a minister
I've had a reply in response to the question I submitted (in relation to my post) to my MP who in turn had received a reply from a man in the cabinet office so you'd think it would be good? I don't think so.
I'll summarise:
Para 1 -
Thanks for the question
Para 2 -
(1) Info collected for first time in January of this year. Is that correct?
(2) In response to concerns that children of Service families can be disadvantaged in their education by being required to move frequently and change schools, often at times when children do not normally change schools. Common sense but is it likely to change?
(3) HOC Def Comm report recommended strongly that a marker be included in the annual school census. More red tape with no meaning
(4) Data provided will help them analyse the effects of moving school and could have adverse consequences on levels of attainment. As above
Para 3 -
(1) Security of data - Department committed to ensuring data and personal details should never be disclosed or used in an inappropriate way......oh B@@@##!
(2) Still security - Adheres to strict standards of data access and confidentiality....oh S@@#!
(3) Still security - All data will be kept physically secure and the department will not publish anything which could ID an individual....oh F~~#! but nothing about inadvertent loss of personal data
Para 4 -
(1) All schools have their own databases and the info is also contained here. So why have another database?
(2) Info can be transferred as pupils transfer but the service marker does not get transferred? So why have the info in the first place?
(3) The schools can also send data to local auth's and department for children, other schools and families?
how many have access?
Para 5 -
(1)Anyone within the Gov dept dealing with the census has to be checked by the Crim Rec Bureau ....oh that's ok then!
(2) The Gov's lead agency has reminded schools of their responsibilities in handling sensitive data......oh.......!!!!
I'm still very concerned and I've sat on this for another month trying to think of what to do next.
Question - Am I making too big a deal of this???
SA
I'll summarise:
Para 1 -
Thanks for the question
Para 2 -
(1) Info collected for first time in January of this year. Is that correct?
(2) In response to concerns that children of Service families can be disadvantaged in their education by being required to move frequently and change schools, often at times when children do not normally change schools. Common sense but is it likely to change?
(3) HOC Def Comm report recommended strongly that a marker be included in the annual school census. More red tape with no meaning
(4) Data provided will help them analyse the effects of moving school and could have adverse consequences on levels of attainment. As above
Para 3 -
(1) Security of data - Department committed to ensuring data and personal details should never be disclosed or used in an inappropriate way......oh B@@@##!
(2) Still security - Adheres to strict standards of data access and confidentiality....oh S@@#!
(3) Still security - All data will be kept physically secure and the department will not publish anything which could ID an individual....oh F~~#! but nothing about inadvertent loss of personal data
Para 4 -
(1) All schools have their own databases and the info is also contained here. So why have another database?
(2) Info can be transferred as pupils transfer but the service marker does not get transferred? So why have the info in the first place?
(3) The schools can also send data to local auth's and department for children, other schools and families?
how many have access?Para 5 -
(1)Anyone within the Gov dept dealing with the census has to be checked by the Crim Rec Bureau ....oh that's ok then!
(2) The Gov's lead agency has reminded schools of their responsibilities in handling sensitive data......oh.......!!!!
I'm still very concerned and I've sat on this for another month trying to think of what to do next.
Question - Am I making too big a deal of this???
SA
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Secure Data
The governments data is very secure, how many times recently have various departments copied data onto CD's and handed them to the post office or a n other courior service to "misplace"?
I would recycle the request next time you run out of toilet paper
I would recycle the request next time you run out of toilet paper
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SA
Para 3 -
(1) Security of data - Department committed to ensuring data and personal details should never be disclosed or used in an inappropriate way......oh B@@@##!
ERRM who decides what is and is not appropriate?
Para 3 -
(1) Security of data - Department committed to ensuring data and personal details should never be disclosed or used in an inappropriate way......oh B@@@##!
ERRM who decides what is and is not appropriate?
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Sentry
Question - Am I making too big a deal of this???
Not at all, if you feel that strongly then carry on your battle. Let us not forget that this rabble that's in charge brought in comprehensive anti terror legislation that is now being used by local councils as an excuse to spy on indigenous people who might want to choose a decent school for their kids.
Personally I would give them a load of misinformation whenever you have to fill such forms in. I still do that today, marking any such forms with "The information supplied on this form may be inaccurate" It drives them round the bend!! Then you just ignore any attempts by the relevant department to contact you.
Have we decided what new religion we are going to create for the 2011 census yet? Anyone else a Jedi???
Question - Am I making too big a deal of this???
Not at all, if you feel that strongly then carry on your battle. Let us not forget that this rabble that's in charge brought in comprehensive anti terror legislation that is now being used by local councils as an excuse to spy on indigenous people who might want to choose a decent school for their kids.
Personally I would give them a load of misinformation whenever you have to fill such forms in. I still do that today, marking any such forms with "The information supplied on this form may be inaccurate" It drives them round the bend!! Then you just ignore any attempts by the relevant department to contact you.
Have we decided what new religion we are going to create for the 2011 census yet? Anyone else a Jedi???
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Seems to me that the school/LEA need to address their environmental issues.
A sheet of A4 paper for 2 questions?
I realise that schools need to push out pieces of paper to parents/guardians/etc to pass on information, e-mails will never be efficient enough for this purpose, however...
...On one hand they use A4, when A5 would have been as effective and half the paper wasted, on the other hand they will give the children lessons on recycling/environmental issues/waste/climate change.
Back to the subject though, if something sinister was in line here, surely it would be simpler to target pupils going to schools that are near military bases!
Doesn't the school know what parents occupations are anyway? At least they asked YOU. It would have been easier to ask the children to draw their parents at work, and then have an environmental lesson on how they travel to school.
But as opposed to being sinister, it does seem like a total waste of time, effort and resources.
A sheet of A4 paper for 2 questions?
I realise that schools need to push out pieces of paper to parents/guardians/etc to pass on information, e-mails will never be efficient enough for this purpose, however...
...On one hand they use A4, when A5 would have been as effective and half the paper wasted, on the other hand they will give the children lessons on recycling/environmental issues/waste/climate change.
Back to the subject though, if something sinister was in line here, surely it would be simpler to target pupils going to schools that are near military bases!
Doesn't the school know what parents occupations are anyway? At least they asked YOU. It would have been easier to ask the children to draw their parents at work, and then have an environmental lesson on how they travel to school.
But as opposed to being sinister, it does seem like a total waste of time, effort and resources.
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Create a false identity for yourself
I've insured cars for the past 15 years as a Civil Servant (jobs are banded like cars, and Civil Servant is Band 1 = 2CV, HM Forces Band 3 = Mondeo, and I think Pilot is Band 5or6 = top end Merc, and I think it goes up to 7 Stuntman/footballer = Ferrari)
We're all payed according to the Public Sector Pay Review Board of which AFPRB is part of, and decides all pay levels for Public Sector workers
I've never been questioned on it and I've always been ready to argue that I work in the Public Sector for the MOD and that is why my car was inside the wire at RAF whereever when LAC Bloggs drove into it
Also my car has never been registered at an RAF base address, which will help. This will make it difficult for LACs to insure using this method, unless they have an alternative address to use (family home for example)
In fact, a couple of years ago weren't we advised to explain that we were all "in government employ"
So for your school simply state that you're a Civil Servant
I've insured cars for the past 15 years as a Civil Servant (jobs are banded like cars, and Civil Servant is Band 1 = 2CV, HM Forces Band 3 = Mondeo, and I think Pilot is Band 5or6 = top end Merc, and I think it goes up to 7 Stuntman/footballer = Ferrari)
We're all payed according to the Public Sector Pay Review Board of which AFPRB is part of, and decides all pay levels for Public Sector workers
I've never been questioned on it and I've always been ready to argue that I work in the Public Sector for the MOD and that is why my car was inside the wire at RAF whereever when LAC Bloggs drove into it
Also my car has never been registered at an RAF base address, which will help. This will make it difficult for LACs to insure using this method, unless they have an alternative address to use (family home for example)
In fact, a couple of years ago weren't we advised to explain that we were all "in government employ"
So for your school simply state that you're a Civil Servant
Okay, I am a School Governor and have been for 5 years. Although I agree the form was a little odd, I suspect the reasons are as follows:
Our broken state education system is based on Government set targets. These targets are directly linked to funding and published league tables. So, every year a Head Teacher is required to 'Make a Bet', that is: How many kids from Key Stage whatever will make the required Grades in both their SATs and their GCSEs. Failure to meet that bet, with a margin of plus or minus very little, results in a finiancial penalty. That could mean the loss of a teaching post. Military kids moving in and out, even in small numbers, can have a dramatic effect on that outcome and so is a real concern to the school Management Teams. i.e If you have an RAF Brat who is very bright (level 7+) and that child moves just before the exams, it can knock the numbers off by enough to incur that penalty. That is why schools are keen to know who is and who is not in the military. It is a real headache but this useless Government has the school system by the balls and the Local Education Authorities enforce it with an almost Communist type control. The teachers hate it but there is nothing they can do.
The transport bit is, as has been said, in an effort to cut down on car/bus journies wherever possible. It has had no impact here where I live in a rural community.
As for knowing what parents do? Why should they? In todays rat race schools receive little or no support from 98% of parents and they are only seen when they want to bitch and moan. Also, to enquire about a parents occupation would probably be seen in some parts as trying to discriminate against the less well off. ( Yes, it really is that bad).
As to teachers pushing paper, not in my experience. Most of the paper comes from the Local Authority and they get it from Central Government who interfere on a daily basis.
As to making comments on the standard of teachers, OK, there are good and bad just as in every other organisation. The majority of the ones I have worked with just want to get on with the job and do their best by the kids. However, if your job is tied directly to your results, it is only human nature that teachers will do everything in their power to meet those targets. Hence, there is no longer any teaching, it is all exam practice and nothing more.
In defence of the schools, I have found the overwhelming majority of teachers and kids to be high calibre individuals who just want to get on, learn and enjoy life. The failure is smack bang on the doorstep of this stupid Government.
There is another element as well. Despite what the Daily Mail says, there is a growing shortage of school age kids so schools are now having to compete for numbers. This is another reason for collecting data on what is seen as a mobile part of the school cohort (to use school speak).
So, ignore the forms if you want. Please don't deface them or falsify them as that just creates work for others (who are just as busy as you). If you feel strongly then write directly to the Head Teacher. To go direct to the Governors is a bit like bypassing your Sqn Cdr if you have a problem.
As to approaching the RAFP and the Adminners, that gave me the best laugh in ages. Thanks.
Amen
Our broken state education system is based on Government set targets. These targets are directly linked to funding and published league tables. So, every year a Head Teacher is required to 'Make a Bet', that is: How many kids from Key Stage whatever will make the required Grades in both their SATs and their GCSEs. Failure to meet that bet, with a margin of plus or minus very little, results in a finiancial penalty. That could mean the loss of a teaching post. Military kids moving in and out, even in small numbers, can have a dramatic effect on that outcome and so is a real concern to the school Management Teams. i.e If you have an RAF Brat who is very bright (level 7+) and that child moves just before the exams, it can knock the numbers off by enough to incur that penalty. That is why schools are keen to know who is and who is not in the military. It is a real headache but this useless Government has the school system by the balls and the Local Education Authorities enforce it with an almost Communist type control. The teachers hate it but there is nothing they can do.
The transport bit is, as has been said, in an effort to cut down on car/bus journies wherever possible. It has had no impact here where I live in a rural community.
As for knowing what parents do? Why should they? In todays rat race schools receive little or no support from 98% of parents and they are only seen when they want to bitch and moan. Also, to enquire about a parents occupation would probably be seen in some parts as trying to discriminate against the less well off. ( Yes, it really is that bad).
As to teachers pushing paper, not in my experience. Most of the paper comes from the Local Authority and they get it from Central Government who interfere on a daily basis.
As to making comments on the standard of teachers, OK, there are good and bad just as in every other organisation. The majority of the ones I have worked with just want to get on with the job and do their best by the kids. However, if your job is tied directly to your results, it is only human nature that teachers will do everything in their power to meet those targets. Hence, there is no longer any teaching, it is all exam practice and nothing more.
In defence of the schools, I have found the overwhelming majority of teachers and kids to be high calibre individuals who just want to get on, learn and enjoy life. The failure is smack bang on the doorstep of this stupid Government.
There is another element as well. Despite what the Daily Mail says, there is a growing shortage of school age kids so schools are now having to compete for numbers. This is another reason for collecting data on what is seen as a mobile part of the school cohort (to use school speak).
So, ignore the forms if you want. Please don't deface them or falsify them as that just creates work for others (who are just as busy as you). If you feel strongly then write directly to the Head Teacher. To go direct to the Governors is a bit like bypassing your Sqn Cdr if you have a problem.
As to approaching the RAFP and the Adminners, that gave me the best laugh in ages. Thanks.
Amen
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Like Wyler, I was also a Parent Governor whilst serving, and I agree with most of the points raised.
This will be another stab by central govt to show that league tables work, and that they are indeed taking the concerns of service parents into account by creating a database that shows if service children are indeed adversely effected by moving schools.
It will as always achieve nothing except to provide an accountant somewhere sufficient information to statistically prove that there is no longer a need for BSA.
As for the schools, they will go along with it because there is quite a lot of money to be had from LEAs if they can prove they are "Garrison Schools". Although these were officially phased out years ago, if the school can prove that (figures from memory only, so please don't quote as too accurate) more than say 60% of their student population herald from service families, then they are entitled to up to 40% more funding per year.
As my kids school shared a fence with my station, this type of census was never instigated because 85% of the school catchment area was MQs (or SFAs now) anyway. I can see why some schools would want to know though.
I personally would return it incomplete, or not at all, just like the infamous "ethnicity" forms.
As for whomever it was questioning your right to approach the Govs, that is what they are there for, especially the Parent Govs. To bring the concerns of the "Parents" to the full board. The clue is in the name really.
This will be another stab by central govt to show that league tables work, and that they are indeed taking the concerns of service parents into account by creating a database that shows if service children are indeed adversely effected by moving schools.
It will as always achieve nothing except to provide an accountant somewhere sufficient information to statistically prove that there is no longer a need for BSA.
As for the schools, they will go along with it because there is quite a lot of money to be had from LEAs if they can prove they are "Garrison Schools". Although these were officially phased out years ago, if the school can prove that (figures from memory only, so please don't quote as too accurate) more than say 60% of their student population herald from service families, then they are entitled to up to 40% more funding per year.
As my kids school shared a fence with my station, this type of census was never instigated because 85% of the school catchment area was MQs (or SFAs now) anyway. I can see why some schools would want to know though.
I personally would return it incomplete, or not at all, just like the infamous "ethnicity" forms.
As for whomever it was questioning your right to approach the Govs, that is what they are there for, especially the Parent Govs. To bring the concerns of the "Parents" to the full board. The clue is in the name really.
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Potential security risk
The type of information requested by the school,IMHO,should not be divulged to them or anyone else without very good reason,which must be explained in full with any future request of this nature.
It is no secret that a substantive number of people employed in the public sector have political sympathies leaning to the left,and a number are plain 'anti-war' and prominent members of the "peace"movement.
In the wrong hands,this information could be of use to terrorists.
Again,it is no secret that so-called"peace"activists in Britain sympathise with overseas terrorists and hostile governments,and indeed it would not be unkonwn for individuals to pass information on to these groups or countries.
Sounds paranoid,maybe,but NO risks should be taken whatsoever.
Should not the Special Branch or MI5 not be investigating the organisations requesting this information?.
It is no secret that a substantive number of people employed in the public sector have political sympathies leaning to the left,and a number are plain 'anti-war' and prominent members of the "peace"movement.
In the wrong hands,this information could be of use to terrorists.
Again,it is no secret that so-called"peace"activists in Britain sympathise with overseas terrorists and hostile governments,and indeed it would not be unkonwn for individuals to pass information on to these groups or countries.
Sounds paranoid,maybe,but NO risks should be taken whatsoever.
Should not the Special Branch or MI5 not be investigating the organisations requesting this information?.
I, too, am a school governor - at the primary school which my elder boy attended and where my younger child currently attends. I want to make a contribution to what I believe (and OFSTED as well) is an excellent school.
However, I am starting to dread the termly Governors' meetings due to the volume of cr@p that comes out from the (overstaffed) County Council. Talk about initiative overload! I feel sorry for the Headteacher as the amount of surveys, targets, returns etc that he has to address are taking him away from his day job: educating children.
Although we have not had a survey like this at my school it does not surprise me in the least and, quite clearly, whoever initiated it has not given the slightest thought to personal security.
However, I am starting to dread the termly Governors' meetings due to the volume of cr@p that comes out from the (overstaffed) County Council. Talk about initiative overload! I feel sorry for the Headteacher as the amount of surveys, targets, returns etc that he has to address are taking him away from his day job: educating children.
Although we have not had a survey like this at my school it does not surprise me in the least and, quite clearly, whoever initiated it has not given the slightest thought to personal security.
It is no secret that a substantive number of people employed in the public sector have political sympathies leaning to the left,and a number are plain 'anti-war' and prominent members of the "peace"movement.
Again,it is no secret that so-called"peace"activists in Britain sympathise with overseas terrorists and hostile governments,and indeed it would not be unkonwn for individuals to pass information on to these groups or countries.
Sounds paranoid,maybe,but NO risks should be taken whatsoever.
Sounds paranoid,maybe,but NO risks should be taken whatsoever.
I'm a Head of a primary school in Wales- we do things a bit differently, but most bull****ty things are the same. Couple of thoughts.....
We always ask for place of work for emergency contact purposes. We never give them out. Parent phones, "I've lost Jonny's Dad's number, and I can't give Jonny alift after all, can i have it please?" I say, "No, If you're happy, i'll ring and give the message, or give him your number and you can sort it out"
We do keep them secure.
We get all sorts of bollocks demands to gather ethnicity and nationality info. It's a nause. If a black man witha black kid wants him to be recorded as 'white British', that's what I put- by law.
Pertinent here is that he can also decline to answer.
On this issue, I would have politely informed the LEA that I wasn't requesting this piece of info on the grounds of compromising thesecurity of the children in my care. They'd threaten me, and I'd demand written instruction to me in person. Then i'd write to you boys and girls suggesting you decline to answer. Last throw- I would know you personally, and get you to get the missus to phone the local rag explaining how poor Mr Golf is being leaned on, and we don't want to be compromised. It would go away.
Gorilla suggested putting,
as a jolly jape.
He'd not receive a reply offering a place.
Stay safe,
CG
We always ask for place of work for emergency contact purposes. We never give them out. Parent phones, "I've lost Jonny's Dad's number, and I can't give Jonny alift after all, can i have it please?" I say, "No, If you're happy, i'll ring and give the message, or give him your number and you can sort it out"
We do keep them secure.
We get all sorts of bollocks demands to gather ethnicity and nationality info. It's a nause. If a black man witha black kid wants him to be recorded as 'white British', that's what I put- by law.
Pertinent here is that he can also decline to answer.
On this issue, I would have politely informed the LEA that I wasn't requesting this piece of info on the grounds of compromising thesecurity of the children in my care. They'd threaten me, and I'd demand written instruction to me in person. Then i'd write to you boys and girls suggesting you decline to answer. Last throw- I would know you personally, and get you to get the missus to phone the local rag explaining how poor Mr Golf is being leaned on, and we don't want to be compromised. It would go away.
Gorilla suggested putting,
"The information supplied on this form may be inaccurate"
He'd not receive a reply offering a place.
Stay safe,
CG
