Msc Leadership / Air Transport for RAF members
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Msc Leadership / Air Transport for RAF members
So it's time to face the fact that my A grade GCSE in Home Economics isn't going to cut it in the real world when I leave. And other than being able to make the cows get bigger and smaller, I've got little else to fall back on.
I figure it's time to officially join the ranks of those with more qualifications than common sense and why not a Master's degree while I'm at it ?
Done JOCC and ISS (career type see innit) so can get a diploma of management from the CIM if I do one module. Anyone done it and have it lead onto greater things ? Wondering what courses it may get me into...
Also, anyone done the MSc Air Transport that City University London offers or the Leadership one from Exeter ? Waiting till April 2008 for the higher learning award from ELCAS before I apply. Used 2 dips in the pot for my ATPL so only 1 left.
Guess I need to make it aviation related to stay on the forum of my target audience.....ermm.....did the scheme's fit in well with your flying schedule ?
I figure it's time to officially join the ranks of those with more qualifications than common sense and why not a Master's degree while I'm at it ?
Done JOCC and ISS (career type see innit) so can get a diploma of management from the CIM if I do one module. Anyone done it and have it lead onto greater things ? Wondering what courses it may get me into...
Also, anyone done the MSc Air Transport that City University London offers or the Leadership one from Exeter ? Waiting till April 2008 for the higher learning award from ELCAS before I apply. Used 2 dips in the pot for my ATPL so only 1 left.
Guess I need to make it aviation related to stay on the forum of my target audience.....ermm.....did the scheme's fit in well with your flying schedule ?
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FFP
Another option (seeing as you're a 'career type') would be to press for ACSC and do the additional modules while on the course to gain an MA.
JOCC and ISS (career type see innit)
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FFP, et al:
Just finished the City MSc and had the grad Nov 28.
Basically you are looking at doing 9 x 3 day modules and then a 10 - 15k word essay on a related subject. In summary, loads of fun! You can also use your ELC towards the costs, although be prepared for loads of $hit from the ELC people as this course format does not fit their model. Their problem, not yours as I know of at least another 5x mil personnel who have completed the cse and all have had problems with ELCAS. Also, as the course is similar to OU residential you can get HOTAC approved from your unit T & S budget, otherwise it’s the mess at Uxbridge, etc. That is a bit of a pain, as you are looking at a 1hr+ commute into London for a 0900L start. Rates will cover lunch / transport and there is 1x v good sandwich bar around the corner form the Uni. There are approx 20 modules a year so you can plan well in advance, although note that the popular ones like crisis management are usually over subscribed. Also all of this counts as duty, as it is personal development.
Points to note:
1. don’t do fleet planning for your intro module - its rocket science!
2. Don't be surprised if Fleur (cse admin and chief problem solver) comes at you with a staple gun when you say "do you take enhanced learning credits?"
3. Do go to the Peasant (cse pub) every night - you will learn as much in there as in the classroom.
4. Do 2-3 modules then START TO THINK ABOUT YOUR PROJECT !!!!!
5. If you want more info either PM me or speak to either Prof Roger Wotton (cse dir) or Fleur Talbot (cse admin) at City
6. City also offers MSc's in safety and Pt145 maint mngt (cse director is Dr Steve Bond for both).
7. Get a Uni student ID card. Its worth 10% at the bookshop and (crucially) the pub too - but not on beer
Just finished the City MSc and had the grad Nov 28.
Basically you are looking at doing 9 x 3 day modules and then a 10 - 15k word essay on a related subject. In summary, loads of fun! You can also use your ELC towards the costs, although be prepared for loads of $hit from the ELC people as this course format does not fit their model. Their problem, not yours as I know of at least another 5x mil personnel who have completed the cse and all have had problems with ELCAS. Also, as the course is similar to OU residential you can get HOTAC approved from your unit T & S budget, otherwise it’s the mess at Uxbridge, etc. That is a bit of a pain, as you are looking at a 1hr+ commute into London for a 0900L start. Rates will cover lunch / transport and there is 1x v good sandwich bar around the corner form the Uni. There are approx 20 modules a year so you can plan well in advance, although note that the popular ones like crisis management are usually over subscribed. Also all of this counts as duty, as it is personal development.
Points to note:
1. don’t do fleet planning for your intro module - its rocket science!
2. Don't be surprised if Fleur (cse admin and chief problem solver) comes at you with a staple gun when you say "do you take enhanced learning credits?"
3. Do go to the Peasant (cse pub) every night - you will learn as much in there as in the classroom.
4. Do 2-3 modules then START TO THINK ABOUT YOUR PROJECT !!!!!
5. If you want more info either PM me or speak to either Prof Roger Wotton (cse dir) or Fleur Talbot (cse admin) at City
6. City also offers MSc's in safety and Pt145 maint mngt (cse director is Dr Steve Bond for both).
7. Get a Uni student ID card. Its worth 10% at the bookshop and (crucially) the pub too - but not on beer
Last edited by c130jbloke; 8th Jan 2008 at 16:21. Reason: thought of more stuff !
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Cheap and easy: GCGI from the City & Guilds.
a bargain for you at a one-off fee of £85.
The Graduateship (GCGI) is the perfect award for middle managers, as it is comparable to a United Kingdom (UK) honours degree.
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MBA........?
FFP,
Just a thought, if the MSC doesn't float your boat, for info, I used the certificate and diplomas in Management towards an OU MBA (entered at stage 2).
Good luck
DH
Just a thought, if the MSC doesn't float your boat, for info, I used the certificate and diplomas in Management towards an OU MBA (entered at stage 2).
Good luck
DH
I looked at the same thing six years ago when I was leaving. I condsidered both the options you have mentioned. What it really comes down to is what do you want to do afterwards? In my case - it was still changing the size of cows and I have since come to realise neither qualification will be of much use - if any at all. You may have aspirations to be a manager in the airline of your choice, but I'm not convinced that the MSc in Aviation Management would be any use in persuading the company to employ you as such. Much like the military, the ability to brown nose is far more relevant. And the diploma of leadership will be of as much interest to an airline as your bicycle proficiency test pass.
The Aviation management mob will tell you that it's easy to fit in the modules with your airline job. Oh yeah! It's really easy to study when you're flying 900hrs a years, or you're awake in your hotel room at 2am because of jet lag.
I left the RAF at a bad time - about one month before 9/11 and managed to be made redundant from my first airline job before I'd actually left the RAF, which is quite an acheivement. But looking for other jobs (could have stayed in but didn't want to) I was interviewed for six and was offered five of them - even in those dark times. Not one of those putative employers wanted to see anything more than my A levels in History and Geography.
Concentrate on getting the ATPL and finding the best job - and use time saved by doing something useful is my advice.
The Aviation management mob will tell you that it's easy to fit in the modules with your airline job. Oh yeah! It's really easy to study when you're flying 900hrs a years, or you're awake in your hotel room at 2am because of jet lag.
I left the RAF at a bad time - about one month before 9/11 and managed to be made redundant from my first airline job before I'd actually left the RAF, which is quite an acheivement. But looking for other jobs (could have stayed in but didn't want to) I was interviewed for six and was offered five of them - even in those dark times. Not one of those putative employers wanted to see anything more than my A levels in History and Geography.
Concentrate on getting the ATPL and finding the best job - and use time saved by doing something useful is my advice.
Concentrate on getting the ATPL and finding the best job - and use time saved by doing something useful is my advice. Today 01:09
Good advice Dan,
but there are thirty odd thousand in the RAF alone, who will not be looking for a pilot job when they leave.
The fact it doesn't rev your engine doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.
Good advice Dan,
but there are thirty odd thousand in the RAF alone, who will not be looking for a pilot job when they leave.
The fact it doesn't rev your engine doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.
True, but I read the request for information as the question "What else can I do to make myself more employable as a pilot". Personally speaking. my answer would be "Nothing outside getting hours and ratings". From my (extensive, albeit only over six years) experience of finding airline jobs, hours and ratings are what counts. When I was offered those five jobs after the 9/11 debacle, three of them were offered because I had a 747-400 rating. None were because I had a degree in sub-Saharan pottery from 1300 to 1800. (Actually, I don't!).
What I had was experience as a Captain of a 4 engine heavy jet, several thousand hours and an ATPL. And in the big bad world of commercial aviation, f#ck all else counts. You are more likely to get the job because the interviewer likes you tie, rather than the fact you have a diploma in leadership from the University of Milton Keynes.
What I had was experience as a Captain of a 4 engine heavy jet, several thousand hours and an ATPL. And in the big bad world of commercial aviation, f#ck all else counts. You are more likely to get the job because the interviewer likes you tie, rather than the fact you have a diploma in leadership from the University of Milton Keynes.
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"What else can I do to make myself more employable as a pilot". Personally speaking. my answer would be "Nothing outside getting hours and ratings"
Finding a job in civvy strasse is complicated. Do the research, find out how the companies run applications, talk to all you know or can reach who can guide and assist you, and listen to them. It may take up to two years of planning to line up the job you want.
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The ATPL was the first thing I did. So I only have one dip into the ELCAS pot left after using the first 2 for Bristol Groundschool.
2 of the geographical areas I'm thinking of working in after the RAF state degrees as either essential or desirable for airline employment, hence my interest in getting something here in the UK that I can take with me.
Some great leads on the education front. Thanks again
2 of the geographical areas I'm thinking of working in after the RAF state degrees as either essential or desirable for airline employment, hence my interest in getting something here in the UK that I can take with me.
Some great leads on the education front. Thanks again
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2 of the geographical areas I'm thinking of working in after the RAF state degrees as either essential or desirable for airline employment
Quote Airborne Artist. "Finding a job in civvy strasse is complicated. Do the research, find out how the companies run applications, talk to all you know or can reach who can guide and assist you, and listen to them. It may take up to two years of planning to line up the job you want."
Sound advice. That's exactly what I did. I spent at leat two years of talking to people, conferring with the family, looking at areas to live, making myself more attractive to the airline of my choice - and I was successful and got offered the job I aspired to. I had my offer of employment with Virgin Atlantic more than 10 months before my exit date.
And then the feckers made me redundant within three months of joining them! After that, it was law of the jungle. I applied for any job I was qualified for and took the one that looked the most promising. And I'm still there, and much better off than if I had stayed with Virgin.
One thing's for certain in this industry - and that is that nothing is certain!
Sound advice. That's exactly what I did. I spent at leat two years of talking to people, conferring with the family, looking at areas to live, making myself more attractive to the airline of my choice - and I was successful and got offered the job I aspired to. I had my offer of employment with Virgin Atlantic more than 10 months before my exit date.
And then the feckers made me redundant within three months of joining them! After that, it was law of the jungle. I applied for any job I was qualified for and took the one that looked the most promising. And I'm still there, and much better off than if I had stayed with Virgin.
One thing's for certain in this industry - and that is that nothing is certain!
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Have you tested this? I can't see an otherwise fully-qualified applicant being spun because they didn't get a degree fifteen plus years ago.
If you didn't spend your time in the Gamma Alpha Beta frat and have no degree, then flipping burgers at McD's is about the best you can hope for (tad harsh, but definately no cockpit for you
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Whilst I agree with Dan's comments up to a point ( there are lots of pilots on the ATM MSc cse right now...) the 2 most common reasons pilots are drawn to the cse is:
1. The company are picking up part / all of the tab and the qual will help them get a mngt role within the company. Result = slightly less flying, more office work and more dosh.
2. It's an insurance policy against the day (god forbid) the doc calls time on their class 1 medical and they become the proud owner of a medical problem they did not know they had
1. The company are picking up part / all of the tab and the qual will help them get a mngt role within the company. Result = slightly less flying, more office work and more dosh.
2. It's an insurance policy against the day (god forbid) the doc calls time on their class 1 medical and they become the proud owner of a medical problem they did not know they had