Block 3 SuperHornet set to be better than Eurofighter in every way?
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When does the Meteor BVR missile come into service, i believe the Swedes with a JAS-39 were testing this or similar over Cardigan Bay last year from Valley.
This missile coupled with the Typhoon radar i assume is a world beater? Along with IRST/Pirate and ASRAAM? Or am i barking up the wrong tree?
This missile coupled with the Typhoon radar i assume is a world beater? Along with IRST/Pirate and ASRAAM? Or am i barking up the wrong tree?
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TLAs
"the Meteor BVR missile"
Ah, Meteor. My TLA decoder kept telling me BVR was 'black vynil roof' throughout the thread. I only carried on reading in the hope that someone would mention MkII Capri
Anyway, ISD onTyphoon is currently 2012
http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk...AA/bvraam.html
Happy New Year to all
ps Can someone tell me how to make quotes appear in a blue box when I post a reply, please. The other forum I frequent has a "quote" button along with the "reply" one but not here. If I've missed the obvious then I apologise but a pointer would be appreciated. thanks
Ah, Meteor. My TLA decoder kept telling me BVR was 'black vynil roof' throughout the thread. I only carried on reading in the hope that someone would mention MkII Capri
Anyway, ISD onTyphoon is currently 2012
http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk...AA/bvraam.html
Happy New Year to all
ps Can someone tell me how to make quotes appear in a blue box when I post a reply, please. The other forum I frequent has a "quote" button along with the "reply" one but not here. If I've missed the obvious then I apologise but a pointer would be appreciated. thanks
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The way i do it is to copy the text you wish to quote and then paste it in the Reply box. Then select all that text and then click on the little "quote bubble" in the menu above (the icon on the far right) and this will wrap Quotes around the text...
The way i do it is to copy the text you wish to quote and then paste it in the Reply box. Then select all that text and then click on the little "quote bubble" in the menu above (the icon on the far right) and this will wrap Quotes around the text...
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Although nothing to do with the Typhoon, Looking at the GAO reference to the F/A-18E/F versus the older F/A-18C i came up with this which is interesting, no wonder they needed to upgrade the existing E/F models:-
"Although the F/A-18E/F met its key performance parameters, such as range
and carrier suitability, the operational testers’ comparisons of the
F/A-18E/F to the existing F/A-18C showed that the F/A-18E/F did not
demonstrate superior operational performance over the existing F/A-18C
aircraft. The testers compared the operational effectiveness of the F/A-18C6
to the F/A-18E/F in 18 operational mission areas such as interdiction,
fighter escort, combat air patrol, air combat maneuvering, and air-to-air
weapons. Using a numerical scale, the testers rated the F/A-18E/F’s
operational effectiveness essentially the same as the F/A-18C’s."
"Page 5 GAO/NSIAD-00-158 Defense Acquisitions
The major deficiency was the aircraft’s weak aerodynamic performance,
which reduces the aircraft’s ability to accelerate, climb and turn, and
causes it to have a low top speed. These deficiencies reduce the
aircraft’s ability to maneuver during air-to-air combat with adversary
aircraft; quickly exit a combat area so as to not get caught from behind;
protect the carrier battle group by sprinting out to engage enemy
aircraft; and integrate into operations with the better performing
F/A-18C aircraft. Correcting these deficiencies would require a costly
program to develop and acquire a new engine and retrofit it on already
produced aircraft. The Navy does not currently plan to develop a new
engine for the F/A-18E/F to correct these deficiencies because it
believes that future upgrades to the aircraft—such as the Joint Helmet
Mounted Cueing System and the AIM-9X missile—will provide
capabilities that will make the speed and maneuverability of the aircraft
less critical in close-in aerial combat.7 However, these two upgrades are
still under development and testing. The Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing
System is expected to be available when the F/A-18E/F is scheduled to
enter the fleet in 2002; however, the AIM-9X will not be available at that
time. In addition, these upgrades will not correct the F/A-18E/F’s
inability to quickly exit a combat area or to protect the fleet by sprinting
out to engage enemy aircraft.
• The F/A-18E/F also has a noise and vibration deficiency that damages
the air-to-air and some air-to-ground weapons carried by the aircraft. As
a result, during operational testing, limits were imposed on the number
of hours the weapons could be carried on the aircraft before they
needed to be replaced, and more frequent weapon inspections were
imposed. The operational testers concluded that the time limits and the
more frequent inspections would not be acceptable for fleet operations
and, therefore, rated the F/A-18E/F unsatisfactory in the air-to-air
weapons area. The Navy’s current approach to mitigating this problem is
to strengthen the weapons, rather than make costly changes to the
aircraft. A panel of experts assembled by the Navy to study the noise
and vibration problem, however, stated that if further testing reveals
damage to the weapons’ electronic components, modifications to the aircraft’s wing might be needed."
This along with other material within the GAO report suggest that the E/F has a slower rate of turn (sustained) by 2°/sec than the F/A-18C and also no significant range increase at all.
I could go on but the report is quite large but it is a rather interesting read:-
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/ns00158.pdf
"Although the F/A-18E/F met its key performance parameters, such as range
and carrier suitability, the operational testers’ comparisons of the
F/A-18E/F to the existing F/A-18C showed that the F/A-18E/F did not
demonstrate superior operational performance over the existing F/A-18C
aircraft. The testers compared the operational effectiveness of the F/A-18C6
to the F/A-18E/F in 18 operational mission areas such as interdiction,
fighter escort, combat air patrol, air combat maneuvering, and air-to-air
weapons. Using a numerical scale, the testers rated the F/A-18E/F’s
operational effectiveness essentially the same as the F/A-18C’s."
"Page 5 GAO/NSIAD-00-158 Defense Acquisitions
The major deficiency was the aircraft’s weak aerodynamic performance,
which reduces the aircraft’s ability to accelerate, climb and turn, and
causes it to have a low top speed. These deficiencies reduce the
aircraft’s ability to maneuver during air-to-air combat with adversary
aircraft; quickly exit a combat area so as to not get caught from behind;
protect the carrier battle group by sprinting out to engage enemy
aircraft; and integrate into operations with the better performing
F/A-18C aircraft. Correcting these deficiencies would require a costly
program to develop and acquire a new engine and retrofit it on already
produced aircraft. The Navy does not currently plan to develop a new
engine for the F/A-18E/F to correct these deficiencies because it
believes that future upgrades to the aircraft—such as the Joint Helmet
Mounted Cueing System and the AIM-9X missile—will provide
capabilities that will make the speed and maneuverability of the aircraft
less critical in close-in aerial combat.7 However, these two upgrades are
still under development and testing. The Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing
System is expected to be available when the F/A-18E/F is scheduled to
enter the fleet in 2002; however, the AIM-9X will not be available at that
time. In addition, these upgrades will not correct the F/A-18E/F’s
inability to quickly exit a combat area or to protect the fleet by sprinting
out to engage enemy aircraft.
• The F/A-18E/F also has a noise and vibration deficiency that damages
the air-to-air and some air-to-ground weapons carried by the aircraft. As
a result, during operational testing, limits were imposed on the number
of hours the weapons could be carried on the aircraft before they
needed to be replaced, and more frequent weapon inspections were
imposed. The operational testers concluded that the time limits and the
more frequent inspections would not be acceptable for fleet operations
and, therefore, rated the F/A-18E/F unsatisfactory in the air-to-air
weapons area. The Navy’s current approach to mitigating this problem is
to strengthen the weapons, rather than make costly changes to the
aircraft. A panel of experts assembled by the Navy to study the noise
and vibration problem, however, stated that if further testing reveals
damage to the weapons’ electronic components, modifications to the aircraft’s wing might be needed."
This along with other material within the GAO report suggest that the E/F has a slower rate of turn (sustained) by 2°/sec than the F/A-18C and also no significant range increase at all.
I could go on but the report is quite large but it is a rather interesting read:-
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/ns00158.pdf
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Deny it all you want, but the Block 3 is about to be unleashed on the world, and onto the whimpering cur that is the Eurofighter. Read and behold, infidels.
>>As we all well and know, by the end of 2006, all of the USN's F/A-18E/Fs will be flying in Block II config.
Block II(in a nutshell)
- JHMCS + AIM-9X
- IDECEM Blk II
- AN/APG-79 AESA Radar
- Updated avionics.
Now that Block II is completed, what does Block III hold in store for the SuperBug?
Block III (possible additions).
After a cursory search on the web, I have found amazing evidence of what the Block III SuperHornet will have.
The major updates for Block III can be:
- GE414-400 improved powerplants. Using improved design and materials, this engine will have 30% less parts and maintenence needs, 25% more thrust, reduced overall weight, and improved efficiency at medium to high altitudes.
- TVC. With 25% more thrust and lighter powerplants, the aircraft can support the weight and thrust penalties of a single-axis TVC system, possible based on that of the F-22A.
- APG-79 upgrades. Improved signal processing software and power output. Maybe newer T/R modules as well.
- Reduced RCS. The current F/A-18E/F does not have any RAM coatings. This is primarily due to the corrosive environments on board USN Carriers. But the JSF program's F-35C will sport RCS coatings which will be able to hold up to these conditions and be inexpensive to place on the fan blades and leading edges of the F/A-18E/F.
- IDECM Blk 3. Makes use of ALE-55 Fiber Optic Towed Decoy.
>>Under the VAATE program, its envisioned that the F-414 engine will offer 20% improved thrust and 55% increased range by Y2010.. this should help mute criticism of the SH
Oh, and I wouldn't trust GAO, a bunch of accountants to assess weapon systems either. They were also critical of the immensely successful Stryker and Bradley systems, ffs. The Superhornet has at least met expectations but mostly exceeded it in the 6 years of war, pilots love it for the improved range, better handling and new systems. It is extremely combat proven by now, soaring over all modern combat, while the little Eurofighter growled and snuffled from deep within its kennel in england and did its best impression of being a big boy. Muppet.
>>As we all well and know, by the end of 2006, all of the USN's F/A-18E/Fs will be flying in Block II config.
Block II(in a nutshell)
- JHMCS + AIM-9X
- IDECEM Blk II
- AN/APG-79 AESA Radar
- Updated avionics.
Now that Block II is completed, what does Block III hold in store for the SuperBug?
Block III (possible additions).
After a cursory search on the web, I have found amazing evidence of what the Block III SuperHornet will have.
The major updates for Block III can be:
- GE414-400 improved powerplants. Using improved design and materials, this engine will have 30% less parts and maintenence needs, 25% more thrust, reduced overall weight, and improved efficiency at medium to high altitudes.
- TVC. With 25% more thrust and lighter powerplants, the aircraft can support the weight and thrust penalties of a single-axis TVC system, possible based on that of the F-22A.
- APG-79 upgrades. Improved signal processing software and power output. Maybe newer T/R modules as well.
- Reduced RCS. The current F/A-18E/F does not have any RAM coatings. This is primarily due to the corrosive environments on board USN Carriers. But the JSF program's F-35C will sport RCS coatings which will be able to hold up to these conditions and be inexpensive to place on the fan blades and leading edges of the F/A-18E/F.
- IDECM Blk 3. Makes use of ALE-55 Fiber Optic Towed Decoy.
>>Under the VAATE program, its envisioned that the F-414 engine will offer 20% improved thrust and 55% increased range by Y2010.. this should help mute criticism of the SH
Oh, and I wouldn't trust GAO, a bunch of accountants to assess weapon systems either. They were also critical of the immensely successful Stryker and Bradley systems, ffs. The Superhornet has at least met expectations but mostly exceeded it in the 6 years of war, pilots love it for the improved range, better handling and new systems. It is extremely combat proven by now, soaring over all modern combat, while the little Eurofighter growled and snuffled from deep within its kennel in england and did its best impression of being a big boy. Muppet.
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Like Minded
I am quite sure even Boeing wouldn't want this character fighting their corner -
I suggest, 'Like Minded' you 'soar' over your pillow & get over it - I am no fan at all of the BAe which now makes the Typhoon, but anyone can see it is far more agile than the Super-Hornet, and will carry more up-to-date systems, the Meteor has already been mentioned as well; airframe range is an interesting point too.
Yes it will take time, all aircraft development does that; but I & most of the people here are talking from experience, and everything you say indicates you are not.
See you on Jet Blast, if you get off your home F-18 simulator...
I suggest, 'Like Minded' you 'soar' over your pillow & get over it - I am no fan at all of the BAe which now makes the Typhoon, but anyone can see it is far more agile than the Super-Hornet, and will carry more up-to-date systems, the Meteor has already been mentioned as well; airframe range is an interesting point too.
Yes it will take time, all aircraft development does that; but I & most of the people here are talking from experience, and everything you say indicates you are not.
See you on Jet Blast, if you get off your home F-18 simulator...
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Deny it all you want, but the Block 3 is about to be unleashed on the world, and onto the whimpering cur that is the Eurofighter.
I need to pay more attention to the news!
Like-minded, your post is either a poor attempt at humour or you are an Arse Sir, and a Block III Arse at that!
To be serious for a moment, the biggest single capability offered by the Hornet over the Typhoon is its ability to operated from a water-based moving runway!
STH
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my dear little load jockey, fighter pilots may die, but we never lie.
next time I barrel roll over one of your compadores, I will be sure to thrust.
next time I barrel roll over one of your compadores, I will be sure to thrust.
Simple-Minded says:
"As we all well and know, by the end of 2006, all of the USN's F/A-18E/Fs will be flying in Block II config."
He's wrong, of course, as you'd expect from a 12 year old flightsim addict, but not from a 'fighter pilot'.
And before we get too excited about Block III, perhaps we'd better wait to see the results from the first cruise by an AESA-equipped Hornet squadron. This has been delayed several times, up to now, but VFA-213 are now scheduled to take the full Block II jet on its first deployment later this year.
I wonder whether that will happen before or after the 'Whimpering Cur'
makes it to Kandahar....... 
All this fighter pilot talk is confusing me, though. So many new terms that I've never heard of. I shall have to consult my 'compadores' about 'kinematic' performance and 'off broadsight' capabilities. I could ask them about 'instentainious turn rates', and about what is the best LPI radar systems operational 'anyware', and about 'sophistocated' EW/EWSP suites, and these LO 'cahrecteristics'?
"As we all well and know, by the end of 2006, all of the USN's F/A-18E/Fs will be flying in Block II config."
He's wrong, of course, as you'd expect from a 12 year old flightsim addict, but not from a 'fighter pilot'.
And before we get too excited about Block III, perhaps we'd better wait to see the results from the first cruise by an AESA-equipped Hornet squadron. This has been delayed several times, up to now, but VFA-213 are now scheduled to take the full Block II jet on its first deployment later this year.
I wonder whether that will happen before or after the 'Whimpering Cur'
makes it to Kandahar....... All this fighter pilot talk is confusing me, though. So many new terms that I've never heard of. I shall have to consult my 'compadores' about 'kinematic' performance and 'off broadsight' capabilities. I could ask them about 'instentainious turn rates', and about what is the best LPI radar systems operational 'anyware', and about 'sophistocated' EW/EWSP suites, and these LO 'cahrecteristics'?
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my dear little load jockey, fighter pilots may die, but we never lie.
next time I barrel roll over one of your compadores, I will be sure to thrust.
next time I barrel roll over one of your compadores, I will be sure to thrust.
Like-minded, have you had your house checked for radon levels recently?
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Dont have much intelligent to add, but i have flown both british and american hardware. And I can tell you I would much rather go to war in an american bird any day.
SH over eurolemon anyday!!
SH over eurolemon anyday!!
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Well, it's different & entertaining at least...
I reckon there are 3 options;
1, this chaps' posts are gaining in translation more than he realises
2, It's a 12 year old flight sim berk
3, It's a bored SH pilot laughing his socks off, whiling away the time until he has an operational AESA to use...
The point about the only advantage of the SH being it's ability to use carriers was well made, pity that's not a part of LM's requirements.
I'm off now to put up a barrage balloon above my Compadore just in case.
I reckon there are 3 options;
1, this chaps' posts are gaining in translation more than he realises
2, It's a 12 year old flight sim berk
3, It's a bored SH pilot laughing his socks off, whiling away the time until he has an operational AESA to use...
The point about the only advantage of the SH being it's ability to use carriers was well made, pity that's not a part of LM's requirements.
I'm off now to put up a barrage balloon above my Compadore just in case.
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Load Toad
All my own work (and I was half asleep, so I may have dreamt LikeMinded's bizarre post!); always happy to give credit to others' works when due...
STH
Did you write that all yourself or plagiarise it off another message board?
STH