Airports forcing troops to change on tarmac?
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As far as I am aware the Glasgow airport incident did not actually target any members of the armed forces. I think it was an attack aimed at causing maximum damage to who ever was there. Sadly for members of the British public the term 'soft target' seems to apply . If we get to a position where our forces cannot be deemed safe at a U.K airport - maybe we need to deploy troops at the airports for security?
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Pride in Uniform
Guys as a civilian who flies a few times per year I would like to say its great to see you out and about in uniform. It makes me proud to be British to see it. If you have to wear civi stuff you may aswell be average joe in the street.
If certain people don't like seeing you in uniform then they can
*ff!!!!!!!!!
If its not safe to be seen in uniform in the UK then the war has been lost already and as someone said you guys need to be on duty in the streets here.
When I think back to the 1980s and Bentwaters, Woodbridge, Sculthorpe etc and the yanks being everywhere in uniform. It made one feel safe.
Don't any you guys in the forces give in on this issue.
I often write to my lib dem MP and a variety of Tory people on many issues relating to the forces. I just hope in some tiny way it may help!
If certain people don't like seeing you in uniform then they can
*ff!!!!!!!!!If its not safe to be seen in uniform in the UK then the war has been lost already and as someone said you guys need to be on duty in the streets here.
When I think back to the 1980s and Bentwaters, Woodbridge, Sculthorpe etc and the yanks being everywhere in uniform. It made one feel safe.
Don't any you guys in the forces give in on this issue.
I often write to my lib dem MP and a variety of Tory people on many issues relating to the forces. I just hope in some tiny way it may help!
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I have always found that people who insist that our troops should not be seen in uniform in this particular context really mean troops should not be in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we're ashamed or afraid to allow or soldiers, sailors and airmen to wear the Queen's uniform in public then this country truly has undergone a disgraceful change in attitude in recent years. I suspect that the majority of our people stand behind the military on this. Only our useless politicians and officials let us down time after time after time........
If Birmingahm Airport is really taking this attitide then they are making the reasons up to fit their policy and I hope they get Hell for it.
If Birmingahm Airport is really taking this attitide then they are making the reasons up to fit their policy and I hope they get Hell for it.
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Found this press release from BHX website.
http://www.bhx.co.uk/page.aspx?type=...le=K2SlneLIkSA=
Does not flatly denies it.
I for one would tell them to shove there heads were the sun dont shine it would have been a bigger cluster f*** if they tried to stop a load of squaddies on mass.
http://www.bhx.co.uk/page.aspx?type=...le=K2SlneLIkSA=
Does not flatly denies it.
I for one would tell them to shove there heads were the sun dont shine it would have been a bigger cluster f*** if they tried to stop a load of squaddies on mass.
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I have decided to post here as this subject I can relate to, due to personal experience. A long time ago I was traveling to foreign parts via Lynham. The Herc tasked to deliver us, had a fuel balance problem, so another one was laid on at very short notice to take us. Unfortunatly It only had enough fuel to take us to Stanstead. We were all in combats and we parked at the far end of the Airport, out of the way from everyone else. We were told in no uncertain terms that we had to get changed on the shuttle bus into our civvy atire, before we even got anywhere near the main terminal. We had a few ladies with us, so we got changed on the tarmac while they got changed in the bus. I have been told to do alot of crap things in my life but I never felt as low as to that being treated by BAA to make us strip on the tarmac into civvies with aircraft taking off and landing next to us, before they let us go into the terminal to board a civvy flight. I joined the Air Force as I had some pride in my country and to the queen. I never would have thought that my service and others to this country could be treated with such apathy and contempt by BAA and other agencies. If service to your country means being treated like this. What is the point then
Military at civil airports
Dodger
Just to clarify; Who told you "in no uncertain terms" to get changed into civvies? I promise you I'm not getting at you or anyone else; it's just that all the way through this thread no-one has said unequivocally WHO gave the instruction for people to change at whichever airport. The end result has been outrage without a target. We need to be clear about WHO we are outraged at. Then we can think about an appropriate course of action.
The Ancient Mariner
Just to clarify; Who told you "in no uncertain terms" to get changed into civvies? I promise you I'm not getting at you or anyone else; it's just that all the way through this thread no-one has said unequivocally WHO gave the instruction for people to change at whichever airport. The end result has been outrage without a target. We need to be clear about WHO we are outraged at. Then we can think about an appropriate course of action.
The Ancient Mariner
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Hi Rossain. To answer your question, We were told after we landed. Ops had to inform BAA Stanstead of our arrival, and part of that reply from them, was that they were not going to permit us to travel through the terminal in our combats. This was a very last minute flight, alot of hard work by ops managed to get us on a civvy flight and it was credit to them that they managed to get us there. It was only a shame that others could not be so welcoming.
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I'm amazed at how difficult the key aspect of this is to some. These are military personnel properly wearing HMQ uniforms. Airports don't make decisions about that, the senior military person (chalk leader) does. Local govts have NO authority over national forces. Commercially owned/operated airports don't even enter the picture.
If there is a military directive saying they can't travel in uniform fair enough. Otherwise, it's the chalk leaders call.
If the chalk leader folded and had his/her personnel changing clothes on the ramp I'm amazed that there wasn't a formation mooning of the terminal. If there wasn't then there is a serious morale problem.
Beancounters and other idiots are queing up to fark yer people, your job is to train, protect, and nurture them until it's time to let them loose on the enemy again.
It's a leadership issue.
If there is a military directive saying they can't travel in uniform fair enough. Otherwise, it's the chalk leaders call.
If the chalk leader folded and had his/her personnel changing clothes on the ramp I'm amazed that there wasn't a formation mooning of the terminal. If there wasn't then there is a serious morale problem.
Beancounters and other idiots are queing up to fark yer people, your job is to train, protect, and nurture them until it's time to let them loose on the enemy again.
It's a leadership issue.
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In the not too distant past I was on a civvy charter from sandland that was fog div'd to Luton. We were parked in the corner of the back pan and shuttle bused to the terminal. This caused an outbreak of pure horror from the airport terminal management. We were hearded to a far corner of the terminal and it was obvious that the management hoped that no one would see us. Sure enough, lot's of hungover, bucket & spade, two weeks in Majorca tourists poured through the terminal - and hardly gave us a second glance. In the end the management had all the buses to Brize sent round to the cargo gate and we had to leave by the back door.
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Here in the colonies, I must admit to being mystified as to why troopers would not be allowed to wear their uniforms in the terminal. If an airport or airline official tried that sort of thing in the US, the public outcry would be heard around the country and said official would be sacked forthwith.
Red On, Green On
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Many years ago ISTR clearing customs in uniform at Teeside ex an RAF VC10. The aircraft was dropping off our Northern brethren (23) and then continued to Lyneham. We all had to leave the aircraft, go through Customs and then back out again to satisfy the men from the revenue. We had no civvies to change into as we'd been on ex in BAOR. Must have been 83, the year of the Harrods bombing.
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I would urge everyone to read the statement on the BHX website.
It is a masterpiece of politically correct crap!
The final line is the clincher:
'The Airport Company will not automatically refuse to accept military personnel in uniform'.
As someone who pays his rates to Birmingham City Council I am appalled if this is the official procedure of BHX.
As an ex-RAF guy I'm disgusted that things have come to this in the UK.
We should be told just who has authorised this policy.
It is a masterpiece of politically correct crap!
The final line is the clincher:
'The Airport Company will not automatically refuse to accept military personnel in uniform'.
As someone who pays his rates to Birmingham City Council I am appalled if this is the official procedure of BHX.
As an ex-RAF guy I'm disgusted that things have come to this in the UK.
We should be told just who has authorised this policy.
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Heres the press release in full.
"BIA Statement Regarding Staff in Military Uniform
Under the byelaws of Birmingham International Airport (BIA), there are no restrictions relating to clothing or appearance for those using the Airport for public flights.
The Airport Company does not Police fashion, nor does it seek to single out or disrespect the uniform of the Queen, or those who wear it.
The Airport Company will continue to support the work of our service personnel across the UK and around the World.
The Airport Company will not automatically refuse to accept military personnel in uniform. "
The Airport Company will continue to support the work of our service personnel across the UK and around the World. (As long as you use the back door)
the only thing i can say is Tossers
"BIA Statement Regarding Staff in Military Uniform
Under the byelaws of Birmingham International Airport (BIA), there are no restrictions relating to clothing or appearance for those using the Airport for public flights.
The Airport Company does not Police fashion, nor does it seek to single out or disrespect the uniform of the Queen, or those who wear it.
The Airport Company will continue to support the work of our service personnel across the UK and around the World.
The Airport Company will not automatically refuse to accept military personnel in uniform. "
The Airport Company will continue to support the work of our service personnel across the UK and around the World. (As long as you use the back door)
the only thing i can say is Tossers
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RIGHT pick one and write to :
local Birmingham newspapers
Private Eye
The local Birmingham MP
Your local MP
bbc.co.uk
I have emailed the airport, written to Private Eye and I'll work the list.
Shame the bastards.
local Birmingham newspapers
Private Eye
The local Birmingham MP
Your local MP
bbc.co.uk
I have emailed the airport, written to Private Eye and I'll work the list.
Shame the bastards.
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It's not just a case of the odd diverted flight though.
Military pax transport has been using Brum on a regular basis for years - I was told due to it's proximity to a hospital/medical clearance facility. Because they don't know if they will be transporting casualties in advance, the flight plans are for Brum regardless.
last time I came back from sandy climes we landed at Brum and had to get changed outdoors at silly o'clock on a January morning, parked over on the freight side where all the buildings were locked up!! Eventually someone (a sensible employee - thank you sir!) took pity on us, went and sourced some keys and opened up a building for us until our coach North arrived.
The issue of uniform isn't down to the airport - it was, at that time, MOD policy!!!! The MOD and government do not want the public seeing all these injured souls entering and leaving the hospital in case they suddenly become aware of just how horrific and numerically high the "casualty rate" really is. That, gents, was the bottom line in 2003.
What became the norm was a small hand bag with civvies in it, and a change of clothing whilst swapping jets at cyprus. Now, the size of bag that the movers allowed you was pathetic - you looked like you'd just been crumpled in a car accident after you'd got changed, and you hardly managed to even leave enough space in your pathetically small bag to take a book to read on the cattle-class vc10! It was all (and I assume still is) a complete load of b*lls having to go through the hassle. Best part was, you HAD to board initially in uniform, but HAD to get off in Britain in civvies. Crazy, pathetic, stupid "rules" made up by ar53h*les who had no grasp on reality because they were of a rank high enough that they did what they felt like.
Early in 2005, my family and I were going through LHR en-route home from a short holiday when I met an RAF Policeman that I knew. He was in desert uniform, as his bag had gone missing and he had nothing to change into. On arrival back at his base he was severely reprimanded for doing so, to the point that his boss asked why he hadn't simply gone and bought some civvy clothes! "After all, there are enough shops in the terminal" said his boss. Well, he obviously hasn't been caught in the endless boredom and drudgery that is Flight Connections - separated from all amenities like you have some sort of plague! That, gents, is how stupid this has all become!
Military pax transport has been using Brum on a regular basis for years - I was told due to it's proximity to a hospital/medical clearance facility. Because they don't know if they will be transporting casualties in advance, the flight plans are for Brum regardless.
last time I came back from sandy climes we landed at Brum and had to get changed outdoors at silly o'clock on a January morning, parked over on the freight side where all the buildings were locked up!! Eventually someone (a sensible employee - thank you sir!) took pity on us, went and sourced some keys and opened up a building for us until our coach North arrived.
The issue of uniform isn't down to the airport - it was, at that time, MOD policy!!!! The MOD and government do not want the public seeing all these injured souls entering and leaving the hospital in case they suddenly become aware of just how horrific and numerically high the "casualty rate" really is. That, gents, was the bottom line in 2003.
What became the norm was a small hand bag with civvies in it, and a change of clothing whilst swapping jets at cyprus. Now, the size of bag that the movers allowed you was pathetic - you looked like you'd just been crumpled in a car accident after you'd got changed, and you hardly managed to even leave enough space in your pathetically small bag to take a book to read on the cattle-class vc10! It was all (and I assume still is) a complete load of b*lls having to go through the hassle. Best part was, you HAD to board initially in uniform, but HAD to get off in Britain in civvies. Crazy, pathetic, stupid "rules" made up by ar53h*les who had no grasp on reality because they were of a rank high enough that they did what they felt like.
Early in 2005, my family and I were going through LHR en-route home from a short holiday when I met an RAF Policeman that I knew. He was in desert uniform, as his bag had gone missing and he had nothing to change into. On arrival back at his base he was severely reprimanded for doing so, to the point that his boss asked why he hadn't simply gone and bought some civvy clothes! "After all, there are enough shops in the terminal" said his boss. Well, he obviously hasn't been caught in the endless boredom and drudgery that is Flight Connections - separated from all amenities like you have some sort of plague! That, gents, is how stupid this has all become!
From the original poster on Arrse:
Plus a statement from the airport(also on Arrse):
After seeing an overwhelming response to this post , I have spoken again to my brother who does not want to rock the boat so to speak and gotten some more info, the request /order was passed to the passengers by the pilot (RAF) that they were not to wear combats when in the terminal and that they were required to reclaim bags off tarmac to find civvies and put them on before boarding the bus , they could reboard the aircraft to change but most people changed whilst they were on the tarmac as obviousley they wanted to get on way asap . Where the initial order was issued is unclear might of came from Military or BAA.
hope this clears up any confusion caused
hope this clears up any confusion caused
From Birmingham International:
STATEMENT REGARDING STAFF IN MILITARY UNIFORM
The facts are a little different. We've put the following comments on record, and these sentiments have been shared with MOD:
Under the byelaws of Birmingham International Airport (BIA), there are no restrictions relating to clothing or appearance for those using the Airport for public flights.
Copies of the byelaws are available at www.bhx.co.uk/Press/135.pdf However, the Airport Company has been advised that certain airlines may refuse to accept personnel in military uniform. BIA is not party to a list of airlines operating such policies, nor is it aware of specific airlines that impose such policies.
The Airport Company does not Police fashion, nor does it seek to single out or disrespect the uniform of the Queen, or those who wear it.
The Airport Company will continue to support the work of our service personnel across the UK and around the World.
The Airport Company will not automatically refuse to accept military personnel in uniform; however it is possible that some airlines will. This is a matter for the airlines.
In brief, we would not seek to do anything to undermine the great work of our service people across the World. We feel so strongly about this that we have posted these comments to our own Web Site, in an effort to dispel the rumours.
STATEMENT REGARDING STAFF IN MILITARY UNIFORM
The facts are a little different. We've put the following comments on record, and these sentiments have been shared with MOD:
Under the byelaws of Birmingham International Airport (BIA), there are no restrictions relating to clothing or appearance for those using the Airport for public flights.
Copies of the byelaws are available at www.bhx.co.uk/Press/135.pdf However, the Airport Company has been advised that certain airlines may refuse to accept personnel in military uniform. BIA is not party to a list of airlines operating such policies, nor is it aware of specific airlines that impose such policies.
The Airport Company does not Police fashion, nor does it seek to single out or disrespect the uniform of the Queen, or those who wear it.
The Airport Company will continue to support the work of our service personnel across the UK and around the World.
The Airport Company will not automatically refuse to accept military personnel in uniform; however it is possible that some airlines will. This is a matter for the airlines.
In brief, we would not seek to do anything to undermine the great work of our service people across the World. We feel so strongly about this that we have posted these comments to our own Web Site, in an effort to dispel the rumours.
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and Gents because of issues like this and all the other crap that is why I am seriously considering leaving the mob.....Im too old to put up with all the political and religious crap that tumble's our way on a regular basis.
What's happened to the days of go out and fight, come home with flag waving, no hassels, go and get drunk, go on leave then back to work........
We get kicked out of Harrods in uniform on Rememberance day, refused entry into pubs in dressed in rig and now have to change from our uniform (that most of us wear with pride, enblazend with many qualification badges) out on the tarmac of a wind swept airport in winter......Words fail me.
Why.....So we don't upset all the dross that is now living in this country, many of whom have fled thier's for the very reasons we go and fight somebody else's problem.
We dont subject our prisoners to this , So why do we let it happen to our Military guys and Gals.
This really is a bitter pill to swallow, BHX rot in hell.
What's happened to the days of go out and fight, come home with flag waving, no hassels, go and get drunk, go on leave then back to work........
We get kicked out of Harrods in uniform on Rememberance day, refused entry into pubs in dressed in rig and now have to change from our uniform (that most of us wear with pride, enblazend with many qualification badges) out on the tarmac of a wind swept airport in winter......Words fail me.
Why.....So we don't upset all the dross that is now living in this country, many of whom have fled thier's for the very reasons we go and fight somebody else's problem.
We dont subject our prisoners to this , So why do we let it happen to our Military guys and Gals.
This really is a bitter pill to swallow, BHX rot in hell.
Can't you read?
It is clearly not a Birmingham Airport policy to require military personnel to change into civilian clothing.
So which faceless MoD brass hat has instigated such a policy?
It is clearly not a Birmingham Airport policy to require military personnel to change into civilian clothing.
So which faceless MoD brass hat has instigated such a policy?
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Please pass onto the Arrse forum.
I've just spoken to a very nice lady who gave me the number of a very nice man who organises the transit of HM Forces personnel through BIA (BHX) on RAFAIR, Scheduled & Charter flights. It's 07770586735 and he mentioned a certain German carrier that bares the name of the capital city of the fatherland WILL NOT allow ANY military personnel wearing uniform to travel with their airline....
...but he also stressed BIA was a 'Civil Airport' and although BIA cannot stop what people wear to travel in, they are also powerless to enforce any similar rule on any airline operating out of BIA....
Sounds like a 'policy' from a 'Bird & Fortune' sketch so make of it what you will.
To me, it smacks of mis-interpretation of an operator-specific advisory notice, transformed into a PC inspired airport bye-law by a spineless 'apparatchick', enforced by a non-idigenous NED (Non-Educated Dillinquent), wearing a 'BIA Security' uniform doing his bit for the Jihad against the hordes of returning Infidel Crusaders & BIA hastily issuing a justification that clarifies NOTHING.
What this country needs is a Military Coup!
...but he also stressed BIA was a 'Civil Airport' and although BIA cannot stop what people wear to travel in, they are also powerless to enforce any similar rule on any airline operating out of BIA....
Sounds like a 'policy' from a 'Bird & Fortune' sketch so make of it what you will.
To me, it smacks of mis-interpretation of an operator-specific advisory notice, transformed into a PC inspired airport bye-law by a spineless 'apparatchick', enforced by a non-idigenous NED (Non-Educated Dillinquent), wearing a 'BIA Security' uniform doing his bit for the Jihad against the hordes of returning Infidel Crusaders & BIA hastily issuing a justification that clarifies NOTHING.
What this country needs is a Military Coup!