P-3s grounded
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bugger
Guess my little trip to the sandpit is going to be a bit busy then. P8 in 2019 is quite ambitious, but then it did not mention a capable airframe, one step forward three back.
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2019?
Surely the P-8A is going to be operational long before 2019?!
I could believe those sort of timescales for MRA4, but really, another 11 years to get a mission system onto an airframe that is already in service?
I could believe those sort of timescales for MRA4, but really, another 11 years to get a mission system onto an airframe that is already in service?
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/mma/
The aircraft design is based on the proven fuselage of the 737-800 and the wings of the 737-900. The P-8A aircraft has increased gross weight capability compared to the 737-800.
In June 2005, Boeing announced that the design of the P-8A's wingtips has been changed from the blended winglet to a backswept wingtip. In June 2006, Stork Aerospace of the Netherlands was awarded the contract for manufacture of the backswept (or raked) wingtips.
The internal weapons bay is installed beneath the forward section of the fuselage. The 737-900-style wings are constructed with hardpoints for carrying air-to-surface missiles.
The 737 MMA will be assembled at the Boeing production facility in Renton, Washington. The 737 fuselage and tail sections will be built by Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, Kansas, then transferred to Renton where all the unique 737 MMA aircraft structural features will be incorporated in sequence during fabrication and assembly.
The quality and performance acceptance flight testing of the aircraft will be conducted from Renton Field and final installations and checkout of the mission system and special flight test instrumentation will be conducted at the Boeing Field. The aircraft will then ferry to Naval Air Station at Patuxent River, Maryland, for flight test.
The Preliminary Design Review (PDR) was successfully completed in November 2005. Critical design review was completed in July 2007. The first aircraft for flight test is due for delivery in 2009. Full-scale production at a rate of 12 to 18 aircraft a year is planned to commence in 2012. The planned Initial Operational Capability (IOC) date is 2013.
In July 2007, the Australian Government was given 'first pass approval' to participate in the cooperative development of the P-8A Poseidon. The P-8A would replace the Royal Australian Navy's fleet of P-3C Orion aircraft.
In June 2005, Boeing announced that the design of the P-8A's wingtips has been changed from the blended winglet to a backswept wingtip. In June 2006, Stork Aerospace of the Netherlands was awarded the contract for manufacture of the backswept (or raked) wingtips.
The internal weapons bay is installed beneath the forward section of the fuselage. The 737-900-style wings are constructed with hardpoints for carrying air-to-surface missiles.
The 737 MMA will be assembled at the Boeing production facility in Renton, Washington. The 737 fuselage and tail sections will be built by Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, Kansas, then transferred to Renton where all the unique 737 MMA aircraft structural features will be incorporated in sequence during fabrication and assembly.
The quality and performance acceptance flight testing of the aircraft will be conducted from Renton Field and final installations and checkout of the mission system and special flight test instrumentation will be conducted at the Boeing Field. The aircraft will then ferry to Naval Air Station at Patuxent River, Maryland, for flight test.
The Preliminary Design Review (PDR) was successfully completed in November 2005. Critical design review was completed in July 2007. The first aircraft for flight test is due for delivery in 2009. Full-scale production at a rate of 12 to 18 aircraft a year is planned to commence in 2012. The planned Initial Operational Capability (IOC) date is 2013.
In July 2007, the Australian Government was given 'first pass approval' to participate in the cooperative development of the P-8A Poseidon. The P-8A would replace the Royal Australian Navy's fleet of P-3C Orion aircraft.
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Navy Grounds Anti-Submarine Planes
"By LOLITA C. BALDOR – 7 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. Navy has grounded 39 of its surveillance, anti-submarine planes due to concerns about possible structural failures in the wings.
Ten of the four-engine propeller planes are currently deployed overseas, and Navy spokesman Cmdr. Jeff Davis said they will return to the U.S. for repairs and it has not yet been determined how or if they will be replaced.
"We are acting early, based upon engineering analysis and fleet inspections, to ground these aircraft before a problem arises," said Davis.
The Navy has a total of 161 of the P-3C Orions, and their average age is 28. It will take 18-24 months to repair each of the planes, for a total of about three years to complete the process. Those that cannot be repaired will be pulled from service.
The Orions are some of the oldest aircraft the Navy has, and they are set to be replaced in coming years by the new P-8A Poseidon jet plane. The Poseidon are expected to be operational in the Navy fleet in 2019.
Davis said it is not clear yet whether the rest of the Orions will also have to eventually be taken out of service for repairs.
The 39 were chosen based on their age, number of hours flown and other computer analysis that showed they had exceeded the amount of fatigue on the wings that the Navy considered a concern.
The Naval Air Systems Command issued a bulletin announcing the grounding on Monday, saying it was determined that the 39 aircraft were "beyond known structural limits on the lower section" of the wing."
In other words, 24% of the US Navy's P-3s are grounded... and they will be cycled through an evaluation/repair program... along with the remaining 76% (which are still flying).
Remember, a number of these P-3Cs are upgraded P-3A/Bs.
And with the P-8 starting to enter operational service in 2013 (not 2019), there should be no real problem here.
I believe the 2019 date is probably the "full-replacement date", as the USN program is for "at least 108 aircraft", and 12-18 (15 average) aircraft per year from 2012-2018 makes 84-126 (105 average) delivered by 2019.
"By LOLITA C. BALDOR – 7 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. Navy has grounded 39 of its surveillance, anti-submarine planes due to concerns about possible structural failures in the wings.
Ten of the four-engine propeller planes are currently deployed overseas, and Navy spokesman Cmdr. Jeff Davis said they will return to the U.S. for repairs and it has not yet been determined how or if they will be replaced.
"We are acting early, based upon engineering analysis and fleet inspections, to ground these aircraft before a problem arises," said Davis.
The Navy has a total of 161 of the P-3C Orions, and their average age is 28. It will take 18-24 months to repair each of the planes, for a total of about three years to complete the process. Those that cannot be repaired will be pulled from service.
The Orions are some of the oldest aircraft the Navy has, and they are set to be replaced in coming years by the new P-8A Poseidon jet plane. The Poseidon are expected to be operational in the Navy fleet in 2019.
Davis said it is not clear yet whether the rest of the Orions will also have to eventually be taken out of service for repairs.
The 39 were chosen based on their age, number of hours flown and other computer analysis that showed they had exceeded the amount of fatigue on the wings that the Navy considered a concern.
The Naval Air Systems Command issued a bulletin announcing the grounding on Monday, saying it was determined that the 39 aircraft were "beyond known structural limits on the lower section" of the wing."
In other words, 24% of the US Navy's P-3s are grounded... and they will be cycled through an evaluation/repair program... along with the remaining 76% (which are still flying).
Remember, a number of these P-3Cs are upgraded P-3A/Bs.
And with the P-8 starting to enter operational service in 2013 (not 2019), there should be no real problem here.
I believe the 2019 date is probably the "full-replacement date", as the USN program is for "at least 108 aircraft", and 12-18 (15 average) aircraft per year from 2012-2018 makes 84-126 (105 average) delivered by 2019.
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P-3K
I whether this has any ramifications on our ones over here?
Don't think so, Kiwi Chick, the P-3K's were re-winged under Project Kestrel at the turn of the century.
They'll be making your knees tremble at airshows for a few years yet!
Don't think so, Kiwi Chick, the P-3K's were re-winged under Project Kestrel at the turn of the century.
They'll be making your knees tremble at airshows for a few years yet!
)
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"The P-8A would replace the Royal Australian Navy's fleet of P-3C Orion aircraft."
RAN with fixed wing aircraft?? Must of been a yank article, they still can't get their heads around an Air Force flying P3's
RAN with fixed wing aircraft?? Must of been a yank article, they still can't get their heads around an Air Force flying P3's
Thread Starter
U.S. Navy Grounds Some P-3Cs
Dec 18, 2007
By Amy Butler Structural problems have prompted the U.S. Navy to ground 39 of its P-3C aircraft, ten of which are deployed to units abroad.The grounded aircraft are operating beyond known structural limits in an area of the lower section of their wing. Analysis of the problem and fixes are expected to take up to two years.
The fix will include a replacement of the structure at the trailing edge of the wing between the two engine nacelles, according to John Milliman, a spokesman for Naval Air Systems Command at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md.
Navy officials now are exploring which airframes at home base to shuffle forward to fill the gap left by the 10 deployed aircraft that are grounded.
The Navy has 161 P-3Cs in its fleet. They were designed for antisubmarine warfare, but have since been used in missions in the littorals or over land, especially to support operations in Iraq.
The Navy has funded several structural life management programs with the P-3C fleet in recent years. Discovery of this most recent problem came about as part of routine analyses of data on the fleet.
The last P-3C will be retired in 2019 when the Navy expects to achieve full operational capability with its replacement, the new Boeing 737-based P-8. Initial operational capability for the P-8 will be in 2013.
Meanwhile, the Navy continues to struggle with shortfalls in its EP-3 surveillance aircraft fleet, which was unaffected by the P-3C grounding. Industry is forming options for the Navy as it evaluates a way ahead for its EP-X program. Northrop Grumman announced Dec. 17 that it is teamed with L-3 Communications for a proposal for that mission.
Dec 18, 2007
By Amy Butler Structural problems have prompted the U.S. Navy to ground 39 of its P-3C aircraft, ten of which are deployed to units abroad.The grounded aircraft are operating beyond known structural limits in an area of the lower section of their wing. Analysis of the problem and fixes are expected to take up to two years.
The fix will include a replacement of the structure at the trailing edge of the wing between the two engine nacelles, according to John Milliman, a spokesman for Naval Air Systems Command at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md.
Navy officials now are exploring which airframes at home base to shuffle forward to fill the gap left by the 10 deployed aircraft that are grounded.
The Navy has 161 P-3Cs in its fleet. They were designed for antisubmarine warfare, but have since been used in missions in the littorals or over land, especially to support operations in Iraq.
The Navy has funded several structural life management programs with the P-3C fleet in recent years. Discovery of this most recent problem came about as part of routine analyses of data on the fleet.
The last P-3C will be retired in 2019 when the Navy expects to achieve full operational capability with its replacement, the new Boeing 737-based P-8. Initial operational capability for the P-8 will be in 2013.
Meanwhile, the Navy continues to struggle with shortfalls in its EP-3 surveillance aircraft fleet, which was unaffected by the P-3C grounding. Industry is forming options for the Navy as it evaluates a way ahead for its EP-X program. Northrop Grumman announced Dec. 17 that it is teamed with L-3 Communications for a proposal for that mission.
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Remember, a number of these P-3Cs are upgraded P-3A/Bs.
Not true! They are all P-3C production airframes. All the P-3A/B's went to the "bone yard" and a lot of them sold.
Not true! They are all P-3C production airframes. All the P-3A/B's went to the "bone yard" and a lot of them sold.
The P8 with only 2 engines doesnt take my fancy but i suppose if you are spending all your life at FL300 above the sand pit, it doesnt really matter. Does it have any ASW ability?
For KC, did you do some time at ISK a couple of years ago?
For KC, did you do some time at ISK a couple of years ago?
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Duty of Care
Interesting contrast here between the response of the USN and the UK MoD to a known flight safety-critical structural concern on one of its airframes. USN - scientifically work out all those airframes that could be at risk and ground them for repair. MoD - employ expensive contractors to carry out a risk analysis and then continue ops unabated, with 'all is ok here' press releases after 1 fatal and several near-disastrous incidents.
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KC
maybe i should have been more specific, about 3 years back we had a radar op come to Kinloss, 206 sqn for a couple of months - still not you?
If i remember right the kite flyer was also one of our front end drivers and even did it all the way across to Tarbet Ness.
maybe i should have been more specific, about 3 years back we had a radar op come to Kinloss, 206 sqn for a couple of months - still not you?
If i remember right the kite flyer was also one of our front end drivers and even did it all the way across to Tarbet Ness.