BBC News - Now
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BBC News - Now
5 Former Chiefs of the Defence Staff fire a broadside at Gordon Brown, Swiss Des and the Defence Budget.
New Liarbour spin doctor says that current Defence Chiefs say that they are happy that the covenent isn't broken and they are content with the spending round. Well Sirs Now is the time to stand up and be counted. Let's hear you back up their Lordships!!
New Liarbour spin doctor says that current Defence Chiefs say that they are happy that the covenent isn't broken and they are content with the spending round. Well Sirs Now is the time to stand up and be counted. Let's hear you back up their Lordships!!
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Five former defence chiefs being openly critical of government policy.
An NAO report about to criticise the sale of QinetiQ.
A massive breakdown of security within the HMRC.
The first run on a UK bank in over 100 years.
Senior civil servants identifying Stalinist ruthlessness within government.
All routes seem to point back to one person! And I think he's in big trouble!!
An NAO report about to criticise the sale of QinetiQ.
A massive breakdown of security within the HMRC.
The first run on a UK bank in over 100 years.
Senior civil servants identifying Stalinist ruthlessness within government.
All routes seem to point back to one person! And I think he's in big trouble!!
Last edited by LFFC; 22nd Nov 2007 at 22:04.
Our beloved Stalinist leader is having a new arsehole torn on Newnight as we speak. This is the best thing for my morale that I have seen in months. And what's best of all is that all the attacks are directed at GB in person - not the system. Pointed, very cutting and telling remarks directed straight at GB by 5 former heads of defence for letting the troops down.
Labour MPs and party aparatchicks are now rattled, trying to politicize things and accuse everyone else of screwing up. Is that the sound of chickens I can hear looking for the roost?
Edited to add: Just seen Derek Twigg try and rebut the claims - you could see him squirming and in his refusal to answer yes/no implicitly stated that the 5 former Heads of the Forces didn't know what they were talking about. Just about sums up the shear arrogance of this absolute shower.
Labour MPs and party aparatchicks are now rattled, trying to politicize things and accuse everyone else of screwing up. Is that the sound of chickens I can hear looking for the roost?
Edited to add: Just seen Derek Twigg try and rebut the claims - you could see him squirming and in his refusal to answer yes/no implicitly stated that the 5 former Heads of the Forces didn't know what they were talking about. Just about sums up the shear arrogance of this absolute shower.
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Operation DESTROY REPUTATIONS
If you want a really good bedtime read - have a look at Sgt Slabber's link to the Times:
Flight is the only refuge as the big guns turn on Gordon Brown and Two Jobs Des
The attack was launched from land, sea and air by no fewer than five former Chiefs of the Defence Staff. I believe this is what the Americans call a “surge”. I understand it has been given the codename Operation Destroy Reputations
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Derek Twigg. What a K
b. How does this bloke have the audacity to say what he does particularly about morale when in the Telegraph Online have this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...2/narmy122.xml
b. How does this bloke have the audacity to say what he does particularly about morale when in the Telegraph Online have this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...2/narmy122.xml
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I would be interested to hear the views of the current CDS. Having very recently left Air Cmd and the RAF I know what the 5 former CDS have said is spot on.
Come on Stirrup, grow some balls, or will you wait until you leave as well?
Come on Stirrup, grow some balls, or will you wait until you leave as well?
typical the RAF keeps me at work while this is on 
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Now we know why the 5* CDS post has been disestablished. Keep them out of the Lords.
Oh the law of unintended consequences or did George (Machiavelli) B have this in mind all along?
Oh the law of unintended consequences or did George (Machiavelli) B have this in mind all along?
If any of their Lordships felt this strongly, I wonder why not one of them spoke up when they had hold of the buck. Actually no I don't; not one of them would have made the senior house if they had. Besides, if any two of them had spoken up together while in office it clearly would have amounted to mutiny.
Current First Sea Lord put under extreme pressure by Nicky Campbell to agree with the 5 on 5live this morning (they were broadcasting from Ark Royal)
Really unfortunate that none of (self-) servers will enter and add weight to the debate.
Really unfortunate that none of (self-) servers will enter and add weight to the debate.
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Ministerial Bluff,
The thing with this is that the Minister has a point...
{Ducks quickly to avoid blast}
Until those in the Service are prepared to directly criticise the CSR outcome then we must assume that all are happy with it.
With no anouncements of cuts, redundancies or reducing front-line capability this will quickly blow over. Does anyone really understand why Defence Inflation always sits between 5-7%, because I certainly don't know.
Old Soldiers, Sailors and Airman have always done this (apart from the direct attack on one person) so the Public will pass it off as just standard service wingeing.
I think you find that Northern Rock and the HMRC issue (especially when the 7m letters arrive this morning) are far more important to the people.
Si
The thing with this is that the Minister has a point...
{Ducks quickly to avoid blast}
Until those in the Service are prepared to directly criticise the CSR outcome then we must assume that all are happy with it.
With no anouncements of cuts, redundancies or reducing front-line capability this will quickly blow over. Does anyone really understand why Defence Inflation always sits between 5-7%, because I certainly don't know.
Old Soldiers, Sailors and Airman have always done this (apart from the direct attack on one person) so the Public will pass it off as just standard service wingeing.
I think you find that Northern Rock and the HMRC issue (especially when the 7m letters arrive this morning) are far more important to the people.
Si
I consider that those stating morale is still high are confusing the 'press-on-itus' and local morale that forms the backbone of the front line British serviceman and without which they could not hope to survive day to day, with a genuine underlying unease at continually being asked to do more with less.
The fact that I could no longer, with a clear conscience, continue to serve a Government that asset strips to pay for conflicts, with what appears a total disregard to what the forces need, was the main reason behind my leaving the Service.
The fact that I could no longer, with a clear conscience, continue to serve a Government that asset strips to pay for conflicts, with what appears a total disregard to what the forces need, was the main reason behind my leaving the Service.
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Derek Twigg. What a Kb.
b.
Hmm.... care to have a little think about that one Derek?
If we, (UK plc) want to be 'big hitters' in the foreign policy department, then slack-jawed Gordy needs to dig deeper into his pockets to fund our troops properly to achieve it. It's not exactly rocket science, is it?
Si
“Does anyone really understand why Defence Inflation always sits between 5-7%”.
Quite complex, but two simple everyday factors are;
Industry must somehow recoup the R&D costs they incur. MoD R&D funding is negligible.
At a more mundane, but equally important level, the MoD contracting policy (competition) and the grossly inefficient and bizarre way in which it is implemented, means companies have to invest huge sums bidding for work which only the winner can recoup. Small and medium size enterprises suffer disproportionately, often being forced to spend man-years bidding for a piddling job. It is common for the bid costs to be upwards of 10% of the contract value.
“Does anyone really understand why Defence Inflation always sits between 5-7%”.
Quite complex, but two simple everyday factors are;
Industry must somehow recoup the R&D costs they incur. MoD R&D funding is negligible.
At a more mundane, but equally important level, the MoD contracting policy (competition) and the grossly inefficient and bizarre way in which it is implemented, means companies have to invest huge sums bidding for work which only the winner can recoup. Small and medium size enterprises suffer disproportionately, often being forced to spend man-years bidding for a piddling job. It is common for the bid costs to be upwards of 10% of the contract value.