Shuttle practise at RAF Fairford

[Windy Militant]

Tinternets a wonderful thing!
According to a NASA report there are only four mobile cranes in America that have the lifting capacity at the required reach to do this.

Shuttle lift

[cornish-stormrider]

why bother? I say we impound it under health and safety regs, strip it and flog the bits back a piece at a time.........

ohhh , a black omega has just pulled up.

[WASALOADIE]

If Brize ATC are anything like they used to be, they'd tell it to hold outside the ATZ for 10 mins before allowing it in. They never did ever seem to be able to handle more than 1 a/c at a time.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Well then, let the Shuttle crews thank God they aren't diverting to Upper Heyford!

[Max Shutterspeed]

Wasn't/isn't Finningley a relief landing ground for the shuttle too?

I heard that Elvington was the diversion ground in this part of the world, cos it's got stacks of runway...

Have I been told a load of b*llocks?

MS

[L J R]

The Brick Profile

With the high ROD, and 'glide' profile you might find they actually enter UK airspace at the Fairford airfield ILS Outer Marker (At Flight Level a Gigillian) for a touchdown 10 miles later. Henct the 'advisory' call to tower on Guard. Note that it glides at something like M - 6 reducing to M 0.5 (300 IAS or so at touchdown). Also note that the ILS (if fitted) will not be suitable for the VV strrp G/S said 'Brick' flies. Me thinks that the recovery effort after the fact is a relatively 'minor' logistical problem once the crew and hull is safe - that is when you compare it to the 'oh Fu**c!' factor after launch.

[scran]

There is also an "emergency" strip in Oz.


Actually two I think.


I seem to remember the other issue is the toxic "stuff" the thing emits after said emergency landing - so I'm not sure if you would ever WANT it to turn up

[L J R]

That wouild be hydrozene (sp?) - The stuff in F-16's when they do the flame out approach.

Have a look at launch control and see the 'Glide Envelopes' around the big picture world map. Gives you a idea where it could on after a thrust loss.

[cliver029]

They carted a shuttle into Stansted on the back of a Jumbo in the early 80's(?) as a test for the same 'long runway' reasons.

Cliver

[Windy Militant]

Twas Enterprise, the glide test article on it's way to (or coming back from) Paris for the airshow. It also made an appearance at Fairford. So it's a fairly safe bet that if they can get it on the Jumbo (making sure that the black side's down) they can get it out of there.

[sitigeltfel]

Has anyone else actually seen the Shuttle while in flight? I remember seeing one of them pass over Southern Fife, after launch, in the mid eighties. The met and sun conditions were perfect and there were two images visible, one the shuttle itself and the second was its shadow printed on the atmosphere as it raced across the sky. The press had mentioned that it may be visible that day so there were a few of us watching for it.
I doubt Leuchars would have made a suitable diversion option, but the yanks do enjoy a game of golf.

[OCCWMF]

The max weight of the orbiter in an emergency landing is 240K lbs/120 tons. Loads of wheeled cranes capable of lifting it. but they'd fly in and assemble their lifting derrick to do the job and then position the 747 underneath it.

Who is 'lifting Derek'?

[M609]

hydrozene (sp?)

Hydrazine (N2H4), and yes very nasty indeed.
The RFFS really hate the stuff.

[harrogate]

One of the alleged Shuttle emergency strips in OZ is RAAF Darwin.

It has a loooooong runway, but not as long as it used to be.

I think it's about 11,000ft now, but it used to be as long as that waste of desert known as Doha International - summat like 15,000ft.

[moggiee]

Originally Posted by Agaricus bisporus

and a JCB or two to fill up the hole in Oxfordshire afterwards.

Or even Gloucestershire!

[FLCH]

GO AWAY SHUTTLE you can't land here.......

[Razor61]

According to NASA the orbiter is quote:- "About the size of a DC-9 jetliner, a Space Shuttle orbiter does not require such a large runway for landing." unquote.

Fairford is 10,000ft with i think 1000ft of overun if needed (someone can correct if wrong). The Orbiter touches down at around 216-226mph and with chute deployed it can make it, should imagine on Fairfords runway without any problem at all.

I think the only limiting factor for the choice of runways is that the B-747 needs much more to take off than usual, with a DC9 sized load on its back...

Plus the B-747 needs just as capable airfields along the route. (Keflavik, Lajes etc)

It uses so much fuel on the route home from Edwards and travels much more slowly that it needs to touch down again at Ellington Field, Houston before taking off again routing to Florida.

I should imagine the route home from Europe would take atleast two days.

[The Flying Pram]

I watched some of the satellite feeds of the mission and there was a "pilots eye view" of the final approach - one hell of a steep descent!! I seem to remember reading that NASA had to modify a Gulfstream? to operate with in-flight thrust reversers to give the crew some realistic training...The actual landing was pretty damn good, and the roll out doesn't seem particularly long.
All the ground crew who first approach the shuttle when it has stopped are wearing full suits and breathing apparatus, which tallies with the comments about "nasties" being given off.

[Focks 2]

'Nasties' include:

Hydrazine - 1,085 pounds. Shuttle APU's.
Monomethylhydrazine - 10,800 pounds. Fuel for RCS/OMS.
Nitrogen Tetroxide - 17,500 pounds. Oxidizer for RCS/OMS.
Refrigerant 21 - 59.7 pounds. For closed-loop heat transport.
Liquid Ammonia - 110 pounds. Coolant in the active thermal control subsystem.

NASA website states that the minimun runway length required at abort site is 7500ft. Fine weather being preferable.

There has been only one known abort (STS 51-F). One main engine shut down about half way through ascent. Abort to Orbit was selected, and the mission continued.

And just for good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwfsFtpACFw

[Razor61]

This website:- http://www.wstf.nasa.gov/WSSH/Default.htm
Shows pictures of the Gulfstreams rate of descent and also the Space Shuttle Columbia landing at the White Sands Space Harbor in 1982, where the pilots conduct the Gulfstream landing training.