Pilot Officer Windsor anyone?
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So the question is: are QRs getting a good ignoring in this case or is there another QR that exempts HRHs / HM from the normal regulations, equivalent to Crown Immunity in law? I have no particular objection to Willy having a shot at the RAF and collecting a badge (along with firelighting and knots) but I'd be interested to know how the Airships are justifying it.
I don't have any particular axe to grind and think it is a good thing in general that the princes are in uniform. However, they are not Lt/Fg Off Bloggs, never will be, and will not generate productive service, even though Harry is champing at the bit to go to Iraq or Afghanistan (and he should be allowed to go as the "spare" and would undoubtedly do a good job - presumably William knows not to even bother asking) so there shouldn't be any pretence that they are regular officers - perhaps it could be thought of as a military career consisting of ceremonial duties for its entirety. This is no bad thing, it demonstrates support for the Armed Forces and is in the family tradition.
Likewise, lead by example and all that.....he isn't Lt/Fg Off Bloggs and has an additional public role to play, perhaps not much fun but that's the way it is....I hope he isn't off down Ritzy's every night (or whatever it is called now!) at least to keep the paps away from everyone else! I am sure it would be a hardship to avoid the delights of Lincoln.....
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If we wanted some extra PR, why don't we give some wings to that bloke who played Anakin (?) Skywalker as well whilst we're about it. He's got family in the RAF and he's been flying in a GR4 and he comes across well on the TV....
I repeat what I've already said, but;
I'm all for him coming to fly with us to be able to see what we do. I think it's difficult to justify time on front-line types but he won't be getting many hours apparently. But hey, we waste enough money on things like the Red Arrows for us to be able to flex him some time in the trg aircraft, after all he will be our Head of State.
However, if he does the same course as everyone else he should be eligible for the award of wings. If not, he shouldn't. Hereford wouldn't award him his badge based on an experience visit. Why should we?
I repeat what I've already said, but;
I'm all for him coming to fly with us to be able to see what we do. I think it's difficult to justify time on front-line types but he won't be getting many hours apparently. But hey, we waste enough money on things like the Red Arrows for us to be able to flex him some time in the trg aircraft, after all he will be our Head of State.
However, if he does the same course as everyone else he should be eligible for the award of wings. If not, he shouldn't. Hereford wouldn't award him his badge based on an experience visit. Why should we?
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In a few years time, he will be at the cenotaph in order to lay a wreath in honour of our dead. Between now and then, many more will lay down their lives in the defence of….well if not our country I suppose it will be somebody’s.
Each of you will watch, and note what the colour of the day is, be it Army, Navy or RAF and observe the wings that adorn his chest.
Each of you will have your own private views as to the validity or otherwise of the entitlement for them to be there. He will then be, as he is now, and always has been, an ambassador. Unlike most MP’s, he will have seen it, even if he has not ‘been there and done it’.
I am sure that given a choice, he himself would have much rather enjoyed a flying tour as his father and uncle did, but for whatever reason, it is not meant to be. So be it, and I sincerely hope that he enjoys every second of it. He has no visions of grandeur, for if he did, he would most probably get chopped at Valley.
I once heard a QFI state that as his uncle was (then) a Sea King Captain, it proved that you can take anybody off the street, and given time and money turn them into a helicopter Captain. Andrew does not have flying in his blood, I know for he himself told me so, along with “I do not miss it an iota”.
If William does have flying in his blood, and he will know very soon, then we all should respect that. The fastrack selection, QR’s reference keeping wings, and entering flying training with poor eyesight are all valid points regarding any normal aircrew student. He is far from a normal aircrew student, and some good may well come of him taking this opportunity, we are on a win – win.
Each of you will watch, and note what the colour of the day is, be it Army, Navy or RAF and observe the wings that adorn his chest.
Each of you will have your own private views as to the validity or otherwise of the entitlement for them to be there. He will then be, as he is now, and always has been, an ambassador. Unlike most MP’s, he will have seen it, even if he has not ‘been there and done it’.
I am sure that given a choice, he himself would have much rather enjoyed a flying tour as his father and uncle did, but for whatever reason, it is not meant to be. So be it, and I sincerely hope that he enjoys every second of it. He has no visions of grandeur, for if he did, he would most probably get chopped at Valley.
I once heard a QFI state that as his uncle was (then) a Sea King Captain, it proved that you can take anybody off the street, and given time and money turn them into a helicopter Captain. Andrew does not have flying in his blood, I know for he himself told me so, along with “I do not miss it an iota”.
If William does have flying in his blood, and he will know very soon, then we all should respect that. The fastrack selection, QR’s reference keeping wings, and entering flying training with poor eyesight are all valid points regarding any normal aircrew student. He is far from a normal aircrew student, and some good may well come of him taking this opportunity, we are on a win – win.
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I think the worst things about the affair of the junior Wales' in the military are:
1. That the decision (not) to deploy Wales minor was not made by Buckingham Palace or the MoD but by Fleet Street. At least Thatcher knew that journalists and pollsters don't lead, leaders do.
2. The repeated assumptions in this thread and elsewhere that the Wales scamps are the first members of the British royal family to drink to excess and behave boorishly and thus the certain demise of the monarchy. When they start chopping their wives heads' off and having archbishops (or phoney pharoahs) assassinated I'll take notice.
1. That the decision (not) to deploy Wales minor was not made by Buckingham Palace or the MoD but by Fleet Street. At least Thatcher knew that journalists and pollsters don't lead, leaders do.
2. The repeated assumptions in this thread and elsewhere that the Wales scamps are the first members of the British royal family to drink to excess and behave boorishly and thus the certain demise of the monarchy. When they start chopping their wives heads' off and having archbishops (or phoney pharoahs) assassinated I'll take notice.
why don't we give some wings to that bloke who played Anakin (?) Skywalker as well whilst we're about it. He's got family in the RAF and he's been flying in a GR4 and he comes across well on the TV
Ewan McGregor played ObiWan Kenobi and it's his brother who is/was a GR4 pilot at Lossiemouth.
/Pedant Mode
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What is Wills wearing there? It looks a bit like LCJ/LSJ mesh but with arms and pen pockets? Don't think I've ever seen one of those before. Is it some Tuc/FJ specific kit that us RW mates don't use?
Japes aplenty!
I used to work in an Army Divisional HQ and dealt exclusively with discipline and 'Redress of Complaint' ('whining git' as we used to call it) issues. Should anyone (including William) question and dispute their own situation vis-a-vis pilot training issues, then they have the right enshrined in QRs (The Army Act 1955, an Act of Parliament) to submit a Redress and it must be considered at ever increasing levels by the chain of command (if not resolved at a lower level). In fact, only the complainant can withdraw the redress, and if he doesn't it just continues up to the Defence Council and ultimately - the Queen! ha, ha!!
So, is anyone going to Redress that one?? and tell the Queen that her Grandson
shouldn't get his wings? (signing out an actual aircraft is a whole different issue though). So if Wills doesn't feel like he has had a fair shake, don't worry, he can ask his Grandma to sort out the nasty men!
PS. These are Army Regs, not RAF; but wait.. he is in the Army too! ha, ha!
Face it guys, it is going to happen and it is all there in black and white, voted in by Parliament. The Monarchy have been around for a while and they know a thing or two...
FLUG
I used to work in an Army Divisional HQ and dealt exclusively with discipline and 'Redress of Complaint' ('whining git' as we used to call it) issues. Should anyone (including William) question and dispute their own situation vis-a-vis pilot training issues, then they have the right enshrined in QRs (The Army Act 1955, an Act of Parliament) to submit a Redress and it must be considered at ever increasing levels by the chain of command (if not resolved at a lower level). In fact, only the complainant can withdraw the redress, and if he doesn't it just continues up to the Defence Council and ultimately - the Queen! ha, ha!!
So, is anyone going to Redress that one?? and tell the Queen that her Grandson
shouldn't get his wings? (signing out an actual aircraft is a whole different issue though). So if Wills doesn't feel like he has had a fair shake, don't worry, he can ask his Grandma to sort out the nasty men!PS. These are Army Regs, not RAF; but wait.. he is in the Army too! ha, ha!
Face it guys, it is going to happen and it is all there in black and white, voted in by Parliament. The Monarchy have been around for a while and they know a thing or two...
FLUG
Last edited by Flugplatz; 8th Jan 2008 at 08:15.
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So if Wills doesn't feel like he has had a fair shake, don't worry, he can ask his Mum to sort out the nasty men!
Gentleman Aviator
One is not and never has been a chipbag wearer (something to do with the shape of one's swede), but is not HRH's too big for him??
It seems to be covering the top of his right ear, and is well clear of the cranium on the left - and of course precludes the 30 degree slant .....
Perhaps he'll get a proper SH beret when he gets to Strawbs (sorry BEags)
It seems to be covering the top of his right ear, and is well clear of the cranium on the left - and of course precludes the 30 degree slant .....
Perhaps he'll get a proper SH beret when he gets to Strawbs (sorry BEags)
Now if only the RAF had kept their Batting staff, HRH would be able to wear his chip bag with style.
Maybe he will keep it for Harry to throw up in when they next go on the lash.
Maybe he will keep it for Harry to throw up in when they next go on the lash.
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Flugplatz You make some very good and valid points there; but you are wasting your effort. Those with the "please Sir, it's not fair" mind set are stuck with it and nothing on this planet will change it.
Perhaps we would be better occupied debating the wisdom of the way this is being done. He's already elected to be a brown job and he was entitled to that choice. Would it have been better if his aviation qualification had been pursued through the Army system? Army service at flying school is still service. That would not then involve the abbreviated training so many of you object to and the qualification and badge would carry something near the true value expected. Would the Navy or Air Force then be able to drip that his brevet doesn't qualify him for theirs?
To a large extent, he has a choice in how this phase of his preparation for the Throne is run. If he has said, outright, that he doesn't want to be trained to Army "wings" standard, then that's another matter. In the meantime, if the current route has been deemed the way to go, let's wish the future big fellah luck and all hope that it adds to his military and "air" awareness. If his Gran is happy for her Air Force to award even a honorary pilot's brevet to him, who are we to question her (including the many fervent republicans here)? As the the RWF were proud to change their cap badge simply because Queen Victoria made a spelling mistake, can't we do this with some modicum of good grace?
Perhaps we would be better occupied debating the wisdom of the way this is being done. He's already elected to be a brown job and he was entitled to that choice. Would it have been better if his aviation qualification had been pursued through the Army system? Army service at flying school is still service. That would not then involve the abbreviated training so many of you object to and the qualification and badge would carry something near the true value expected. Would the Navy or Air Force then be able to drip that his brevet doesn't qualify him for theirs?
To a large extent, he has a choice in how this phase of his preparation for the Throne is run. If he has said, outright, that he doesn't want to be trained to Army "wings" standard, then that's another matter. In the meantime, if the current route has been deemed the way to go, let's wish the future big fellah luck and all hope that it adds to his military and "air" awareness. If his Gran is happy for her Air Force to award even a honorary pilot's brevet to him, who are we to question her (including the many fervent republicans here)? As the the RWF were proud to change their cap badge simply because Queen Victoria made a spelling mistake, can't we do this with some modicum of good grace?
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GBZ, I think that he is doing a taster menu of all three services. With a PR coup like this I doubt that the cheeses will train him as a Radar op or a Rock ape, so he'll train as what the RAF is best known for and where it will get the best photo opportunities.
Also you can imagine what Prince william would say if he was told that he would spend 6 mths as a dog walker during his acquaint with the RAF.
I don't think it is all about him getting wings (from his point of view), I think it is about him doing the most interesting job in each service.
Also you can imagine what Prince william would say if he was told that he would spend 6 mths as a dog walker during his acquaint with the RAF.
I don't think it is all about him getting wings (from his point of view), I think it is about him doing the most interesting job in each service.
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If one more media article uses the phrase 'loop-the-loop' or 'jumpsuit', there's going to be a shoot out in Fleet Street!
Edited to add 'acrobatics'.
Edited to add 'acrobatics'.
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How did he do at OASC? Not a dig but just interested if he was graded or not.
TBH I can't see the problem as long as they let him see the forces properly and don't keep him in a bubble, have they spent much on Cranwell's decor recently? It might be one of the few times in his life when he can just relax and be another number. We have to accept that most of us don't make the rules and they can be changed at any time. As easy as we may think his role in the UK may be, I wouldn't want it!
If anyone finds the whole episode too much they could always move to Australia!
TBH I can't see the problem as long as they let him see the forces properly and don't keep him in a bubble, have they spent much on Cranwell's decor recently? It might be one of the few times in his life when he can just relax and be another number. We have to accept that most of us don't make the rules and they can be changed at any time. As easy as we may think his role in the UK may be, I wouldn't want it!
If anyone finds the whole episode too much they could always move to Australia!
According to the Daily Wail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
it's not a chipbag; it's the 'distinctive navy blue forage cap'. NAVY BLUE???????????
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
it's not a chipbag; it's the 'distinctive navy blue forage cap'. NAVY BLUE???????????
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Now if only the RAF had kept their Batting staff, HRH would be able to wear his chip bag with style.
Happy for him to do the most interesting job, just don't believe it satisfies QR (RAF) J727 Para 1
