Two squadrons of Tornado GR4 ground attack aircraft will be scrapped.
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13 Squadron, based at Marham, is at present training over Scotland for a deployment to Afghanistan next year.
Nice to see people getting there facts straight!
There are three Tornado GR4 squadrons at each base.
And has someone got rid of a Sqn without letting us know, last I knew there were 4 at Marham
Nice to see people getting there facts straight!
There are three Tornado GR4 squadrons at each base.
And has someone got rid of a Sqn without letting us know, last I knew there were 4 at Marham
"And has someone got rid of a Sqn without letting us know, last I knew there were 4 at Marham"
To be fair, one if them IS 31....
To be fair, one if them IS 31....
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Reality check...
Scampton will probably go, simply because the Reds as we know them have only a few years left. Whoever said about the 'actual' cuts not seeming as severe as the proposed cuts hit the nail on the head. The question will be asked 'why are we ditching our much needed war machines, yet keeping an expensive 11 jet aerobatic team?', and thus the Reds will be sliced. Doesn't mean those GR4 cuts won't happen too, though.
As for the English Heritage intervention at Scampton, well that seals Scampton's fate rather than saves it's neck. Work of any nature, essential or otherwise', will be increasingly bundled up in red tape and costs will go through the roof.
And I reckon you're all going to be very surprised by what actually happens at Leeming. Nobody's even got close with the various theories on here yet! And yes, 25 Sqn will still be gone next year and they will probably not be one of the squadrons rumoured to be spared under the hastily drawn-up (i.e. still being drawn up) F3 service extension proposals.
And, by the way, Gordon's retreat from Iraq is as much about legitimising these cuts as it is about winning back votes. Soon we'll only be in one war, see, alongside 32 other contributors. 12 Typhoons and a few Chinooks should be enough
As for the Reds even being in existence for the 2012 Olympics... dream on...
Scampton will probably go, simply because the Reds as we know them have only a few years left. Whoever said about the 'actual' cuts not seeming as severe as the proposed cuts hit the nail on the head. The question will be asked 'why are we ditching our much needed war machines, yet keeping an expensive 11 jet aerobatic team?', and thus the Reds will be sliced. Doesn't mean those GR4 cuts won't happen too, though.
As for the English Heritage intervention at Scampton, well that seals Scampton's fate rather than saves it's neck. Work of any nature, essential or otherwise', will be increasingly bundled up in red tape and costs will go through the roof.
And I reckon you're all going to be very surprised by what actually happens at Leeming. Nobody's even got close with the various theories on here yet! And yes, 25 Sqn will still be gone next year and they will probably not be one of the squadrons rumoured to be spared under the hastily drawn-up (i.e. still being drawn up) F3 service extension proposals.
And, by the way, Gordon's retreat from Iraq is as much about legitimising these cuts as it is about winning back votes. Soon we'll only be in one war, see, alongside 32 other contributors. 12 Typhoons and a few Chinooks should be enough
As for the Reds even being in existence for the 2012 Olympics... dream on...
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Does anyone have any info on a study done by a troubleshooter brought in to look at the closure of Lye and the transfer of the Herc to Brize? I understand the result of the study was that it was not feasible, however, the MoD went ahead with the plan anyway.
I also understand that the J sim is definitely moving to Brize, just a few short years after it was built at Lye. The K sim and fleet will remain until OSD.
Cheers,
Nige
I also understand that the J sim is definitely moving to Brize, just a few short years after it was built at Lye. The K sim and fleet will remain until OSD.
Cheers,
Nige
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Nige
not sure what trouble shooter you are referring to, but IIRC, I understand that initial assumptions/costings were reviewed independently after the very initial finger in the air. Figure was 5x the initial amount. Not seen anywhere that it is not feasible, just expensive!
SB
not sure what trouble shooter you are referring to, but IIRC, I understand that initial assumptions/costings were reviewed independently after the very initial finger in the air. Figure was 5x the initial amount. Not seen anywhere that it is not feasible, just expensive!
SB
Last edited by South Bound; 10th Oct 2007 at 15:01. Reason: Backing down from a definitive!
Such cynicism all round! Can't you see it's all part of a well-thought-out plan?
Why do we need so many GR4s when soon there will be an airworthy Vulcan available for hire on a 'no win, no fee' basis (let's face it, the valiant guys and girls at TVOC could do with the cash!). Perfect for the occasional airstrike on Iran/Iraq/(enter Middle Eastern country), without all the nasty expensive headaches like Spares and Basing and Married Quarters and...
Why do we need so many GR4s when soon there will be an airworthy Vulcan available for hire on a 'no win, no fee' basis (let's face it, the valiant guys and girls at TVOC could do with the cash!). Perfect for the occasional airstrike on Iran/Iraq/(enter Middle Eastern country), without all the nasty expensive headaches like Spares and Basing and Married Quarters and...
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I, for one, won't cry if the Reds do go. I take the American view that the public needs to see front-line a/c doing formation aerobatic stunts, not little trainers. Front line aircraft are what defence of the nation and its interests are all about. That's what fires little boys and girls to want to be be fighter pilots, and what reassures the taxpayers they're getting the best defence in the world. Otherwise, civvy-flown Zlins are much better for aerobatics.
I understand that the current crop of F-16s and 18s can't pull the same tight turns as the Reds' Hawks and are thus not quite as visible - or even as dramatic - to the watching crowd. But there is a front-line aircraft that could do the turns and be even more dramatic - the Typhoon.
Har, har, too expensive, do I hear? Well, not so expensive if there are fewer of them as the New Red Arrows, and come not from a special unit but from the Typhoon OCU and reserves.
Any bets that won't happen by 2012?
I understand that the current crop of F-16s and 18s can't pull the same tight turns as the Reds' Hawks and are thus not quite as visible - or even as dramatic - to the watching crowd. But there is a front-line aircraft that could do the turns and be even more dramatic - the Typhoon.
Har, har, too expensive, do I hear? Well, not so expensive if there are fewer of them as the New Red Arrows, and come not from a special unit but from the Typhoon OCU and reserves.
Any bets that won't happen by 2012?
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I would have thought that a new runway and plans for a new control tower would be enough to put the kiss of death on Linton. Look what happened to Finningley £1.3m on a new air nav school and hey presto, closed 6 months later. If they had resurfaced the runway correctly the first time around at Linton, ad moved the displaced threshold at the same time as resurfacing, surely they would have saved a bit of cash. But then oh silly me that would be the sensible thing to do wouldn't it. Doh
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there will be an airworthy Vulcan available for hire on a 'no win, no fee' basis
Does anyone have any info on a study done by a troubleshooter brought in to look at the closure of Lye and the transfer of the Herc to Brize? I understand the result of the study was that it was not feasible, however, the MoD went ahead with the plan anyway.
As far as I can remember, it wasn't that Brize had the better infrastructure as it was as poor as Lyneham's. Lyneham has actually more real estate but the shorter runway with no extending options led to Brize being chosen.
My information is that Chinooks to LYE is very likely.
Hellbound
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My information is that Chinooks to LYE is very likely.
Mr R - less convinced myself. Idea is outstanding on all fronts - gets the SH close to Salisbury Plain, creates efficiencies within support elements (only one OC Admin!) and gets all the SH together so they can stop bitching about why chinook/merlin/puma should live forever! Done properly it is a no-brainer.
Just can't see how this can work practically. They are 500 quarters short and will not get the money to make Lyneham work properly; rather it will be a compromise as it always is with people having to make do in cr*p technical accommodation that does not reflect our new hyper-efficient ways of working.
IMHO we should sack the idea and invest in the Units we have, make them fit for purpose and somewhere the guys and girls working there can be proud of and reflect the changes that have been made to the Service since the 30s/40s when the Units were built...
Mr R - less convinced myself. Idea is outstanding on all fronts - gets the SH close to Salisbury Plain, creates efficiencies within support elements (only one OC Admin!) and gets all the SH together so they can stop bitching about why chinook/merlin/puma should live forever! Done properly it is a no-brainer.
Just can't see how this can work practically. They are 500 quarters short and will not get the money to make Lyneham work properly; rather it will be a compromise as it always is with people having to make do in cr*p technical accommodation that does not reflect our new hyper-efficient ways of working.
IMHO we should sack the idea and invest in the Units we have, make them fit for purpose and somewhere the guys and girls working there can be proud of and reflect the changes that have been made to the Service since the 30s/40s when the Units were built...
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Should apply to the Spams - they do like their private contractors (when did "mercenary" fall out of fashion?)
Not that there's anything wrong with that...............
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49 Para? Folks on ARRSE keep touting it as the place for 'ex-SAS' types to go for further service.
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I have been on "amateur" aerobatic teams in the past: 205 AFS MiddletonSt George 1953; 208 SQn (MEAF "official" team 1954-57); CFS "Sparrows" 1957. They were all good but I would never claim that they could compare with the Reds for precision and slickness. If anyone seriously thinks that a part-time team drawn from, say, the Typhoon OCU could compete with their professional (ie full-time) international counterparts, they most be smoking pot. And if they think the Treasury will cough up to pay for Typhoons taken out of the front line for display purposes only, they really are delirious. And if anyone thinks HMG will pay the political price of winding up the Reds they are on Planet Zog. Some have clearly not understood the extent to which the Reds have caught the hearts and minds of the great unwashed. The government have.
There will be no more "liberal intervention" operations for a very, very long time. Both of the main parties have hoisted aboard the idiocy of shuffling along behind Bush with their noses up his fundament.
There will be no more "liberal intervention" operations for a very, very long time. Both of the main parties have hoisted aboard the idiocy of shuffling along behind Bush with their noses up his fundament.
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Much as I'd love to agree with you regarding the political price of winding up the Reds, it doesn't mean buggery tit to the Whitehall bean counters. It really doesn't.
As for saving the GR4s, maybe PFI or even corporate sponsorship is being seen as the way to go, because I really had to rub my eyes when I saw this today...
Bizarre.
As for saving the GR4s, maybe PFI or even corporate sponsorship is being seen as the way to go, because I really had to rub my eyes when I saw this today...
Bizarre.
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Reds...
FV is quite right - the Reds (and the BBMF) may be cut, but only after the rest of the RAF has long been disposed of.
The painful reality is that as long as the Reds are there to make people go "oooh", the BBMF are there to bring a (well-earned) tear to the eye, and yellow SKs are there to fish the unwise out of the drink / fetch them from a rocky ledge, the truth is that the general public have little or no understanding of what the RAF is doing or what platforms it employs to do whatever it is doing.
It's been said on here before - but there aren't many votes in defence.
S41
The painful reality is that as long as the Reds are there to make people go "oooh", the BBMF are there to bring a (well-earned) tear to the eye, and yellow SKs are there to fish the unwise out of the drink / fetch them from a rocky ledge, the truth is that the general public have little or no understanding of what the RAF is doing or what platforms it employs to do whatever it is doing.
It's been said on here before - but there aren't many votes in defence.
S41
