Two squadrons of Tornado GR4 ground attack aircraft will be scrapped.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Flatlands
Age: 60
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry I forgot to add to our current committments with some possible pending in the not too disatant future. Our political masters continue to make promises they cannot possibly keep?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...-mostviewedbox
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...-mostviewedbox
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I think I mentioned previously, I've heard all the arguments against moving the RAFAT to Leeming before and I don't have any reason to disagree with them. All I know is that whenever I've brought-up the subject (and I obviously can't say with whom), then the answer has been that despite all this, there's no real practical reason why the move can't be made, and that it may well happen. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just basing my hunches on what people have said! As for 25 Sqn, the last I heard was that they would be out of business early next year, although the recent stay of execution for the F3 fleet might have some influence on that - have to wait and see I guess.
So - will we see any of Their Airships resigining in protest?
And I so wish that someone will 'do a Pollock' in a GR4 along the Thames past the mad MoD box and the House of Buffoons!
Not that they should of course - that'd be very naughty...
And I so wish that someone will 'do a Pollock' in a GR4 along the Thames past the mad MoD box and the House of Buffoons!
Not that they should of course - that'd be very naughty...
Why do people keep saying Odious is going to close? It will cost too much money to close and return to the landowner. Lyneham is too far gone (apparently) and it's seems to be getting to the stage that the re-basing is all just going to cost too much money. Close the Yorkshire out stations. Scampton's probably going to have to go because of Robin Hood airport, but where could we put the Reds for commonality of type.......? And how about closing all the places on care and maintenance - or are they all on the same deal as Odious (land returned to previous use)? One thing that Loader said isn't too much of a bad idea - an airfield's got 4 corners, put a sqn in each. The problem is that you have to finance it Sir! 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Puken
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Understood LOO was fairly watertight due to the airspace around there, but then again if MFTS has one type for both BFT and AFT, it'd be hard to argue against its closure.
Lye is suffering from a freeze on infrastructure improvements pending info on its future. Who'd want to bet on it being in a very shabby state for JHC?
The cost of renovation would surely hit any savings in operating costs hard.
I also understand that Benson + Odiham need to be vacated for overseas units returning; therefore there would be no savings to be made as the bases wouldn't be handed back anyhow. How about utilising the real estate at places like Upper Heyford, St Mawgan
, Scampton etc for all these returnees and save everyone a fortune?
No, all we're going to do is spend £millions on shuffling all eggs into one basket for no saving and to save face of the 'workstrand' that came up with this ill-conceived idea. (we haven't touched on SFA, SLAM and MT costs between LYE and BZN).....
Lye is suffering from a freeze on infrastructure improvements pending info on its future. Who'd want to bet on it being in a very shabby state for JHC?
The cost of renovation would surely hit any savings in operating costs hard.
I also understand that Benson + Odiham need to be vacated for overseas units returning; therefore there would be no savings to be made as the bases wouldn't be handed back anyhow. How about utilising the real estate at places like Upper Heyford, St Mawgan
, Scampton etc for all these returnees and save everyone a fortune?No, all we're going to do is spend £millions on shuffling all eggs into one basket for no saving and to save face of the 'workstrand' that came up with this ill-conceived idea. (we haven't touched on SFA, SLAM and MT costs between LYE and BZN).....
Last edited by Farfrompuken; 8th Oct 2007 at 17:33. Reason: Dreadful grammar
5th April 2008 will be the 40th anniversary of the time when Al flew his Hunter under Tower Bridge and down the Thames in protest against the feeble way their airships were planning to celebrate the RAF's 50th birthday.....
It could also be about the date when Grumpy Gordon holds his election.
And, coincidentally, the 100th anniversary of the famous "We want eight and we won't wait!" event when the public protested at weak government defence spending! What was true for dreadnoughts then is equally true for Tornado GR4 squadrons today!!
It could also be about the date when Grumpy Gordon holds his election.
And, coincidentally, the 100th anniversary of the famous "We want eight and we won't wait!" event when the public protested at weak government defence spending! What was true for dreadnoughts then is equally true for Tornado GR4 squadrons today!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Sunday Times got one hell of a bite!
Fellas
The article that kicked this off had me worried until I got to the bit about Linton closing, then the bit about the dear old F3 lasting till 2015. Both of these comments are wildly speculative. Here's why:
To close Linton one must also close Church Fenton, as Linton's where all the accommodation for the newly-established EFTS, plus ATC and fire support services comes from each day. This means another major move for a large organisation & RAF Lincolnshire airspace is full. MFTS will feature a 2 aircraft type solution because of BAe's successfull lobbying to Prescott to make us buy the Hawk 128. It's so expensive (over £20 million each) we can only afford a few of them and must, therefore, reserve its use for TWU-type training. The Tincan replacement will do the job of Linton & 208 Sqn, so Macchi 311 or PC-21 hot favs here. Whatever, these plus 128s will not work together at one base plus one RLG. It will simply be too busy and the different cct speeds/dimensions will cause chaos. Llanbedr is being sold as we debate. There is insufficient airspace.
If I were to offer a base rationalisation solution, it would be to bin Valley (sure this would be popular) and move AFT/TWU to Leuchars, with Typhoons going into Leeming instead. The cct stages of trg could be done on mini day-dets to Kinloss. Loads of airspace (low level and the 613s) for lots of trg aeroplanes to buzz about in. Reds move to Waddo but retain Scampers airspace to practise. Scampers closes and CRC moves to Boulmer.
The F3 is creaking and the gingers are struggling manfully to maintain it until 2010, let alone much longer. 2015 is, frankly, unachieveable. XXV is indeed scheduled to go in Mar 08, leaving a morphed set of units at Leuchars.
For me, the biggest scandal of all is that while we are being subjected to petty penny pinching and lean lectures from the high-priced help, the same high-priced help has allowed MoD main building to be refurbished at a cost of....wait for it, and this is no spoof.....£3 billion. This is nothing short of a criminal act and where we should be directing our anger.
In sum, I await the formal announcements on basing and force sizes with the same trepidation as anyone but please, folks, let's not give this one piece of rampantly speculative Sunday journalism more credit than it deserves.
The article that kicked this off had me worried until I got to the bit about Linton closing, then the bit about the dear old F3 lasting till 2015. Both of these comments are wildly speculative. Here's why:
To close Linton one must also close Church Fenton, as Linton's where all the accommodation for the newly-established EFTS, plus ATC and fire support services comes from each day. This means another major move for a large organisation & RAF Lincolnshire airspace is full. MFTS will feature a 2 aircraft type solution because of BAe's successfull lobbying to Prescott to make us buy the Hawk 128. It's so expensive (over £20 million each) we can only afford a few of them and must, therefore, reserve its use for TWU-type training. The Tincan replacement will do the job of Linton & 208 Sqn, so Macchi 311 or PC-21 hot favs here. Whatever, these plus 128s will not work together at one base plus one RLG. It will simply be too busy and the different cct speeds/dimensions will cause chaos. Llanbedr is being sold as we debate. There is insufficient airspace.
If I were to offer a base rationalisation solution, it would be to bin Valley (sure this would be popular) and move AFT/TWU to Leuchars, with Typhoons going into Leeming instead. The cct stages of trg could be done on mini day-dets to Kinloss. Loads of airspace (low level and the 613s) for lots of trg aeroplanes to buzz about in. Reds move to Waddo but retain Scampers airspace to practise. Scampers closes and CRC moves to Boulmer.
The F3 is creaking and the gingers are struggling manfully to maintain it until 2010, let alone much longer. 2015 is, frankly, unachieveable. XXV is indeed scheduled to go in Mar 08, leaving a morphed set of units at Leuchars.
For me, the biggest scandal of all is that while we are being subjected to petty penny pinching and lean lectures from the high-priced help, the same high-priced help has allowed MoD main building to be refurbished at a cost of....wait for it, and this is no spoof.....£3 billion. This is nothing short of a criminal act and where we should be directing our anger.
In sum, I await the formal announcements on basing and force sizes with the same trepidation as anyone but please, folks, let's not give this one piece of rampantly speculative Sunday journalism more credit than it deserves.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“Bin Valley”, can’t see it myself. Remember most of Valley’s workforce are in a civilian blue uniform, for the Hawks, soon to be SKIOS and 95% of the unit as a whole. To close Valley would ruin Anglesey’s already depressed economy and really upset the North Welsh. Imagine all those civi voters who would be out of work in a high unemployment area that is currently receiving EU money to try and create more jobs. It would be political suicide for the area, and lets face it politics is all that matters, not what’s best for the country or RAF.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RAF Lincolnshire
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grey n Pointy
Scampers closes and CRC moves to Boulmer.
We'd have to move the CRC elsewhere matey as the whole point is having 2 CRCs at different units.
Can't see Linton closing after your comments though, good info.
We'd have to move the CRC elsewhere matey as the whole point is having 2 CRCs at different units.
Can't see Linton closing after your comments though, good info.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Jointery is the cornerstone of the Services (well, 2 of them at least), doesn't this reduction in Strike capacity align with that? Now that the Typhoon is working up for CAS, isn't that all the mobile artillery the Army needs? Who worries about deep strike/interdiction and taking the fight home to the opposition any more?
Regarding Valley, does it still have the best WX profile of all the current home aerodromes?
Regarding Valley, does it still have the best WX profile of all the current home aerodromes?
Hellbound
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nige
not sure what is happening with sims at the moment, been a while since I have heard anything from CATARA at all. IIRC, original plan had been to move the lot (that was when Lyneham was going to close). Quarters is the real killer here - as you suggest, a nice little patch at Compton Bassett went as did some in the village (small, needed some love, but better than nothing). This is the same across defence though, there have been so many efficiencies that there is little spare capacity anywhere and amalgamating units invariably leads to more people at the Unit that survives. Latest feedback from AFPRB suggests that housing is a key (de)motivating factor and we need to get it right, and now.
Pick your units and stick to this decision for the next 15 years, man them appropriately and ensure there are enough houses (in good condition,with modern fittings like showers!) for those that want them and better help for those who want to buy their own (realistic LSAP, legal fees, relocation packages etc). Lot fewer unhappy people.
not sure what is happening with sims at the moment, been a while since I have heard anything from CATARA at all. IIRC, original plan had been to move the lot (that was when Lyneham was going to close). Quarters is the real killer here - as you suggest, a nice little patch at Compton Bassett went as did some in the village (small, needed some love, but better than nothing). This is the same across defence though, there have been so many efficiencies that there is little spare capacity anywhere and amalgamating units invariably leads to more people at the Unit that survives. Latest feedback from AFPRB suggests that housing is a key (de)motivating factor and we need to get it right, and now.
Pick your units and stick to this decision for the next 15 years, man them appropriately and ensure there are enough houses (in good condition,with modern fittings like showers!) for those that want them and better help for those who want to buy their own (realistic LSAP, legal fees, relocation packages etc). Lot fewer unhappy people.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Arbistan
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not entirely sure why the F3 (or any platform for that matter) couldn't continue indefinitely so long as there was suitable funding. Most of the jets have good fatigues and it's now a capable platform, and certainly up to the current threat.
Grey n pointy, where did that £3bn figure come from? I've not seen that one yet.
Grey n pointy, where did that £3bn figure come from? I've not seen that one yet.
Last edited by Affirmatron; 9th Oct 2007 at 12:05. Reason: speeling
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere between hope and despair
Age: 62
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would it be too much to have "Plans" at Air Command become "Plans & Implementation", so then there could be some ownership and accountability on the next deckchair shuffle?
... oink ... flap ... oink ... flap
It must be great having all those ideas and passing them on to others to fix.
... oink ... flap ... oink ... flap
It must be great having all those ideas and passing them on to others to fix.