Two squadrons of Tornado GR4 ground attack aircraft will be scrapped.
Green Flash - have you seen what pongos can do to runways? Look at Catterick for instance; Abingdon where they put a fence around INSIDE ie airfield side of the peri-track!
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This first part is so true.
Jon Nichol said; “The military are their worst enemies. Their can-do attitude means they will always strive to do the job regardless of the resources the politicians give them. This is a disaster in the making, it really is.”
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Correct about the Js, now numbering 24 in total. Does CAS realise he lost one earlier this year? The capital replacement money for XV179 was spent on the extra C17 CAS was crowing about. I now understand that Lyneham will remain open, but not in its current guise. So sad to see Linton close.
Hard to square up the "maintaining critical mass," spoken about by CAS. The critical mass, to which he refers, more likely concerns the mass rush for the door marked exit-and led by senior officers, 3 Stn Cdrs, various Sqn Bosses, and now reaching into Air Rank.
And yes, it happened on your watch CAS. I am not sure he will ever understand the crisis being suffered in the RAF, nor his hand in it.
Hard to square up the "maintaining critical mass," spoken about by CAS. The critical mass, to which he refers, more likely concerns the mass rush for the door marked exit-and led by senior officers, 3 Stn Cdrs, various Sqn Bosses, and now reaching into Air Rank.
And yes, it happened on your watch CAS. I am not sure he will ever understand the crisis being suffered in the RAF, nor his hand in it.
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'lets get labour out of goverment and replace them with someone who gives a toss about our nation'
Any suggestions?
... As someone who has only recently reached voting age I'd be interested to hear which party people feel would give the armed forces a good deal?
Any suggestions?
... As someone who has only recently reached voting age I'd be interested to hear which party people feel would give the armed forces a good deal?
It can't be too long before repeated cuts lead to repeated body bags turning up at Brize. Not that that scenario will make much difference where this govt is concerned - it is entirely devoid of a conscience or thought for anyone other than itself and the minority of the electorate who keep voting it back into power.
Why on earth do we put up with it??? There must be something that can be done to stop these clowns playing fast and loose with the nation's defence and peoples' lives. Auntie Liz ...... care to have a word in Gordon's ear next time he pops round to Buck House?
If this were 1942 and not 2007, I can't think of any single person or organisation who would be a more fitting candidate to receive the Iron Cross than the Noo Labour. They have done more damage to the Armed Forces, it's morale and its capability to fight sustained campaigns than the Germans ever managed to do. All those who think we're fighting a war on 2 fronts - Iraq and Afghanistan - think again. A third front has opened up - the Treasury, but this time we're getting routed.
Why on earth do we put up with it??? There must be something that can be done to stop these clowns playing fast and loose with the nation's defence and peoples' lives. Auntie Liz ...... care to have a word in Gordon's ear next time he pops round to Buck House?
If this were 1942 and not 2007, I can't think of any single person or organisation who would be a more fitting candidate to receive the Iron Cross than the Noo Labour. They have done more damage to the Armed Forces, it's morale and its capability to fight sustained campaigns than the Germans ever managed to do. All those who think we're fighting a war on 2 fronts - Iraq and Afghanistan - think again. A third front has opened up - the Treasury, but this time we're getting routed.
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Could it be an excuse to cut back because the GR4 mates are using their feet at every possible exit option and walking so there are not enough of them left to fill the available seats?
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The government’s deal to sell 75 Typhoon aircraft to Saudi Arabia and the decision to use the new Typhoon aircraft in Afghanistan mean that some Tornado F3 fighters will have to stay in service for another eight years.
The F3 was due to be scrapped next year and replaced by the Typhoon – formerly known as the Eurofighter. But the controversial al-Salam deal with Riyadh will mean that there are insufficient aircraft to cover Britain’s air defences. Consequently, the F3 will stay in service till 2015.
The F3 was due to be scrapped next year and replaced by the Typhoon – formerly known as the Eurofighter. But the controversial al-Salam deal with Riyadh will mean that there are insufficient aircraft to cover Britain’s air defences. Consequently, the F3 will stay in service till 2015.
Move the Sparrows to Leeming, Keep the airfield at LOO, let the Sparrows do their display practice over the airfield.
Sell off the domestic side of LOO, and close Scampton, must save oodles of pennies, and cost lots of pounds.
Still, someone will get an OBE or Knighthood out of it.
Light switch not needed, as we wont have any money to pay the bills.
Sell off the domestic side of LOO, and close Scampton, must save oodles of pennies, and cost lots of pounds.
Still, someone will get an OBE or Knighthood out of it.
Light switch not needed, as we wont have any money to pay the bills.
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Why do we not just spend the cash and end up with a mssive overspend like every other public sector seems to do... NHS springs to mind. Oh, and while we are at it, why not cut benefits in half instead of allowing those lazy sods in society to get away with it whilst we have people dying in the armed forces as a result of crap kit...
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So, shareholders in Northern Rock are bailed out by taxpayers money (only a loan, of course, but no security from a bank in danger of collapse) but they cannot come up with the real cost of supporting their military involvement in other peoples conflicts.
This is called government?
This is called government?
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Most of this news has been expected for a long time of course. The Tornado GR4 cut-backs are of course a political "paper" exercise as the aircraft will just be absorbed into the two Wings, so it's a meaningless move.
Linton is bound to close now that MoD has thrown some money at it - that's standard practise. My hunch is that the closure will be delayed though until a Tucano replacement contract is fixed, so that the move to Valley isn't necessary. They'll probably just start afresh at Valley with a civilian contract, as seems likely with the Sea Kings which were supposedly moving from St.Mawgan.
As for Scampton, I can't see how the airfield has any long term future. Most of the domestic site is sold-off and the airfield effectively exists only for the Red Arrows. As has been rumoured many times, it seems likely that the RAFAT will eventually move to Leeming and possibly use the Scampton airspace for practice displays, if the site is retained, although you have to wonder whether there's any value in retaining any MoD interest in the site, unless it would be too expensive to return it to its former status prior to sale.
Helicopters? Well anyone could see how Odiham is a perfect site for closure because of its location. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if Benson closed too, and the whole helicopter fleet moved to Lyneham as rumoured. It makes good sense (in a bizarre, MoD-esque kind of way).
It's a sad business but there's no news here which comes as any surprise. I think the key things to watch for are the future tanker, transport and SH policies, and the way in which the Harrier fleet soldiers on, and of course, the F-35-versus-Typhoon saga. It'll be fascinating to see whether the F-35 survives, or if the British purchase is abandoned, followed by political bleatings about how we never really needed the Harrier or the F-35 in the first place, blah, blah...
Oh well, the gloom continues. St.Mawgan goes next year, then probably Scampton, Odiham and Linton, then maybe Benson too. Wonder what will be next? Wittering (if they ever find a cost-effective way of getting out)? Cottesmore too I should think. Kinloss too (if they are spending money on widening the taxiways it must be a candidate for closure!)? How about Shawbury? You have to wonder how long it'll be before someobody suggest a merger/relocation to Middle Wallop. I suppose the spiral of closures will continue until the RAF's flying bases ultimately comprise of Valley, Brize, Coningsby, Waddington, Marham, Lyneham (or Benson), Lossiemouth and Leuchars.
It's a lost cause. By the time the RAF reaches it's 100th anniversary there will be no Air Force left to speak of. Never mind - we can go Dutch, Belgian or German... do nothing, don't get involved, and concentrate on financing some fancy paint schemes for the aircraft that are left!
Linton is bound to close now that MoD has thrown some money at it - that's standard practise. My hunch is that the closure will be delayed though until a Tucano replacement contract is fixed, so that the move to Valley isn't necessary. They'll probably just start afresh at Valley with a civilian contract, as seems likely with the Sea Kings which were supposedly moving from St.Mawgan.
As for Scampton, I can't see how the airfield has any long term future. Most of the domestic site is sold-off and the airfield effectively exists only for the Red Arrows. As has been rumoured many times, it seems likely that the RAFAT will eventually move to Leeming and possibly use the Scampton airspace for practice displays, if the site is retained, although you have to wonder whether there's any value in retaining any MoD interest in the site, unless it would be too expensive to return it to its former status prior to sale.
Helicopters? Well anyone could see how Odiham is a perfect site for closure because of its location. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if Benson closed too, and the whole helicopter fleet moved to Lyneham as rumoured. It makes good sense (in a bizarre, MoD-esque kind of way).
It's a sad business but there's no news here which comes as any surprise. I think the key things to watch for are the future tanker, transport and SH policies, and the way in which the Harrier fleet soldiers on, and of course, the F-35-versus-Typhoon saga. It'll be fascinating to see whether the F-35 survives, or if the British purchase is abandoned, followed by political bleatings about how we never really needed the Harrier or the F-35 in the first place, blah, blah...
Oh well, the gloom continues. St.Mawgan goes next year, then probably Scampton, Odiham and Linton, then maybe Benson too. Wonder what will be next? Wittering (if they ever find a cost-effective way of getting out)? Cottesmore too I should think. Kinloss too (if they are spending money on widening the taxiways it must be a candidate for closure!)? How about Shawbury? You have to wonder how long it'll be before someobody suggest a merger/relocation to Middle Wallop. I suppose the spiral of closures will continue until the RAF's flying bases ultimately comprise of Valley, Brize, Coningsby, Waddington, Marham, Lyneham (or Benson), Lossiemouth and Leuchars.
It's a lost cause. By the time the RAF reaches it's 100th anniversary there will be no Air Force left to speak of. Never mind - we can go Dutch, Belgian or German... do nothing, don't get involved, and concentrate on financing some fancy paint schemes for the aircraft that are left!
Helicopters? Well anyone could see how Odiham is a perfect site for closure because of its location. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if Benson closed too, and the whole helicopter fleet moved to Lyneham as rumoured. It makes good sense (in a bizarre, MoD-esque kind of way).
Just a shame that the plan is starting to unravel now that JHC have seen the state of Lyneham and exactly how much it will cost to bring it up to scratch to house all the SH fleets. And you know what JHC are like when it comes to spending money - I think they've been taking lessons from Gordon an Prudence!
And then of course, sticking all the AT at Brize. That won't be an issue will it. The Army moan and complain when one flight to / from theatre is delayed; what do you think will happen when the entire airfield goes u/s in an asymmetric attack and no flights are coming or going? Or maybe pulling everyone back into Basrah is the trial run for all 'Project All Eggs In One Basket'.
We can fill hundreds of pages on this thread, but it won't make any difference to the end result........
I fully admit that I have no expertise in the helo field, but surely between Culdrose, Yeovilton, Benson, Odiham and Middle Wallop there is some scope for consolidation/savings?
I fully admit that I have no expertise in the helo field, but surely between Culdrose, Yeovilton, Benson, Odiham and Middle Wallop there is some scope for consolidation/savings?
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Not a bite biggus, but are you aware how much is crammed into helicopter bases compared to fast jet bases?
I cannot speak for the RAF bases with any authority, but at Culdrose and Yeovilton there are a huge number of front line and second line sqns plus all the bits and pieces involved in supporting the entire FAA. Consider the consolidation already done in the case of rotary.
I cannot speak for the RAF bases with any authority, but at Culdrose and Yeovilton there are a huge number of front line and second line sqns plus all the bits and pieces involved in supporting the entire FAA. Consider the consolidation already done in the case of rotary.
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Tourist is correct. Culdrose operates 11 squadrons comprising of Circa 60 aircraft whilst Yeovilton operates 8 Squadrons with over 100 aircraft.
I would agree that Odiham had to go - far too big and costly to keep a massive airbase on prime land to operate 30 or so aircraft. The worst thing the crabs ever did was to get rid of St Mawgan - a fab little airfield with a massive runway all right next door to the best run ashore in the UK.....madness.
I would agree that Odiham had to go - far too big and costly to keep a massive airbase on prime land to operate 30 or so aircraft. The worst thing the crabs ever did was to get rid of St Mawgan - a fab little airfield with a massive runway all right next door to the best run ashore in the UK.....madness.
Tourist - not a problem, I said I have no experience of the helo world.
The last time I was at Yeovilton was as a teenager, visiting the FAA Museum (which I seem to remember thinking was pretty awesome). I just thought that it is a big airfield, and with departure of Harriers, etc, there might be some room for other assets.
I asked a question ref consolidation of bases, because I don't know the answer, and if people say there is no scope for such moves then I am ready to believe them......!!
The last time I was at Yeovilton was as a teenager, visiting the FAA Museum (which I seem to remember thinking was pretty awesome). I just thought that it is a big airfield, and with departure of Harriers, etc, there might be some room for other assets.
I asked a question ref consolidation of bases, because I don't know the answer, and if people say there is no scope for such moves then I am ready to believe them......!!
This could still be a case of Noo-Labour spin.
You know, release some worst case scenario rumours, then, when the not-quite-so-deep cuts are actually announced it doesn't look nearly as bad as had been expected.
Here's hoping.
You know, release some worst case scenario rumours, then, when the not-quite-so-deep cuts are actually announced it doesn't look nearly as bad as had been expected.
Here's hoping.