C130 Windmill Starting
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Country calls: as long as the FADEC was powered, which it would be pre-start, the Compressor Variable Geometry vanes would be in the correct postion to start the engine, so they wouldn't be 'closed'. The fact that you can't turn the engine core without the starter motor is the 'stopper' (except in flight with sufficient airflow). The incidence of starter motors failing on the J seems to be far less than on the older models, the normal cause of which was the driveshaft shearing. The fact that the J engine is a free turbine & the starter does not have to turn everything - engine core, gearbox & prop - means there is less strain on it at start-up.
But I've never had a starter fail (yet), K or J.
But I've never had a starter fail (yet), K or J.
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IF you have a problem with stuck nac BOVs, IE in the hot sandy place where they get gunked up, I have been led to believe a little run down the runway with 30 degrees on the props helps no end to unload the compressor and start the engine.
It aint going to do jack if your starter motor is knacked though.
It aint going to do jack if your starter motor is knacked though.
Last edited by VinRouge; 25th Sep 2007 at 09:14.
I remember doing a windmill start at Akronelli then taxying back to the terminal to pick up the pax, most of whom seem to have seen the performance. Not a very reassuring start to their journey in 'Albert' !
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I remember doing a windmill start at Akronelli then taxying back to the terminal to pick up the pax, most of whom seem to have seen the performance. Not a very reassuring start to their journey in 'Albert' !
As the FE hit the start switch, he'd yell out "OK!" and the Nav would give the relay an almghty thump with the fuel drain stick - and (hopefully), the mighty Allison would crank up. I only saw this done once, (I was very new to the squadron and flying as supernumary crew), but the looks on the faces of the pax as the Nav stowed the stick and made his way back to the flight deck were something to behold.
Red On, Green On
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I remember doing a windmill start at Akronelli then taxying back to the terminal to pick up the pax, most of whom seem to have seen the performance. Not a very reassuring start to their journey in 'Albert'
Wiley,
for 'encouraging' the various boxes in the 'hog trough' we used to use the handle of the broom which was a 'no go' item on the C130K. It was essential for resetting the circuit breaker of of a bit of defensive kit which was inconveniently
recessed in the forward bulkhead. Our Navs never did these jobs, always the ALM.
for 'encouraging' the various boxes in the 'hog trough' we used to use the handle of the broom which was a 'no go' item on the C130K. It was essential for resetting the circuit breaker of of a bit of defensive kit which was inconveniently
recessed in the forward bulkhead. Our Navs never did these jobs, always the ALM.
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Bou Blowing a Herc
In 1984 a Marine C-130 lost a starter to number 3 engine. I recalled the time that he started a C-119, P&W 4360 with and F-86D and asked the skipper if would want to try a buddy start with a C-7a Caribou ( 66-254 c/n # 254 ). He said yes. This photograph documents that start and may be the only time that a Caribou has started a C-130. He required 16% RPM and with the help of a 15 knot breeze we gave him 21% RPM. The Marine C-130 then flew to Okinawa. (Jim Reed - Aviation Manager Kwajalein 1980-85)
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I saw a buddy start from an Orion to a Herc at Gib many years ago! With one low wing and one high wing it needed a lot of moving of the Orion to get a position that would give enough airflow onto the Herc.
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Wind milling a C160
Many a year a ago I spent a very noisy 1/2 hr or so repositioning a German C160 infront of another because of starting problems.
It required huge amounts of power which undoubtedly did neither airframe or engine any good.
Not to mention the vibration subjected to surrounding buildings and structures not to mention my soft jelly like innards!
End result harry the hun got home!
more to the point they gave me a lift home to my parents in the midlands whilst stopping off at BHX result!
It required huge amounts of power which undoubtedly did neither airframe or engine any good.
Not to mention the vibration subjected to surrounding buildings and structures not to mention my soft jelly like innards!
End result harry the hun got home!
more to the point they gave me a lift home to my parents in the midlands whilst stopping off at BHX result!
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ancientaviator62, the (we) Ozmates used the Nav because he was the only crewmember without a job during the start sequence.
I saw a film clip of a Herc to Herc buddy start on a supposedly clean apron area once (USAF or possibly USMC, I think). Even with the high wing-mounted engines, the amount of crap that was stirred up was quite unbelievable, and I understand the rear airframe suffered considerable damage. They were very much a "the yellow hordes are coming through the wire" procedure in the RAAF Herc squadrons - actively and quite strenuously discouraged.
I saw a film clip of a Herc to Herc buddy start on a supposedly clean apron area once (USAF or possibly USMC, I think). Even with the high wing-mounted engines, the amount of crap that was stirred up was quite unbelievable, and I understand the rear airframe suffered considerable damage. They were very much a "the yellow hordes are coming through the wire" procedure in the RAAF Herc squadrons - actively and quite strenuously discouraged.
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Four Turkeys? Yikes!
Had some horrible hangovers after an evening there. Even worse was trying to fight your way through the clouds of flies to use the bog at the Chinese restaurant next door.
Had some horrible hangovers after an evening there. Even worse was trying to fight your way through the clouds of flies to use the bog at the Chinese restaurant next door.
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Dear all buddy starters,
I do hope that your F/E always put a paper cup over the condition lever of the cuffed prop, far more useful to get a reminder that when the starter drive didn't shear the donk didn't stagnate.
I do hope that your F/E always put a paper cup over the condition lever of the cuffed prop, far more useful to get a reminder that when the starter drive didn't shear the donk didn't stagnate.
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Well Wiley it appears as if I most know you. The source of JL's repremand is now dead, the truth can be stated.
JL was undoubtably one of the finest pilots I have ever flown with, The NCO's aircrew thought the world of him. However the CO had an downer on him, but he was just an a great pilot.
This is the same man who flew a brand new Caribou, for the last 800 miles into Hickham on one engine. Even though being told to put it in the water.
After the C130E incident, John got the message clearly, having saved two aircraft for the RAAF, left and went to Air Alaska flying the L100. I believe he ended up at Cathay.
Should have got a medal, not being told that he was going no where.
Regards
Col Tigwell
JL was undoubtably one of the finest pilots I have ever flown with, The NCO's aircrew thought the world of him. However the CO had an downer on him, but he was just an a great pilot.
This is the same man who flew a brand new Caribou, for the last 800 miles into Hickham on one engine. Even though being told to put it in the water.
After the C130E incident, John got the message clearly, having saved two aircraft for the RAAF, left and went to Air Alaska flying the L100. I believe he ended up at Cathay.
Should have got a medal, not being told that he was going no where.
Regards
Col Tigwell
never did the buddy buddy thing. did windmill thing at bedford as part of the command course. also for real at muscat, the passengers having been offloaded and then watched the GE giving the starter motor some percussion engineering with sucessively larger hammers and finally a fire axe. windmill start as per book.
Thread Starter
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Next question then is how do you actually undertake a buddy/windmill start? My recollections of starting Albert conventionall are (following pre-start checks), drop condition lever in to 'run', press the button and monitor the guages to make sure she starts OK. The starter and ignition are all engaged/disengaged as part of the process.
How do you do it for a buddyy then?
How do you do it for a buddyy then?
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Condition lever forward as for air start. Usual limitations would apply with temps, NTS switch in "Valve", TD valve to "Auto" and prop governer to "Mechanical" one would think.
