France seeks to Rejoin NATO Military Force
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Tony Blair
(beware, there is a trap .....)
(beware, there is a trap .....)
anyway.
So much errors in this thread ...
1- About the Falklands, France helped UK as soon as the war was declared by providing very sensible data (and trainig) about the missiles and planes sold to argentina. BTW, argentina only get someting like 8 AM-39 because the deliveries and support were stop immediatly.
Besides, the Argies were also using US skyhawk+bombs to strike the british fleet.
2- about France and NATO now.
France is a member since the begining (1949) but leaved the military wing in 1966 (but has always been a full member of the political wing).
The main reasons, were that France wanted its own deterence force and a full control over its muilitary forces.
Nevertheless, French forces and NATO military wing are working very closely especially since 1995. As a consequence, a lot of french troops are deployed under NATO command.
Weather, you like it or not, today, France is the 2nd contributor to NATO forces, with more than 4000 men
Despite the fact it is not in te integreted command, France still pay 13.85% of the NATO military budget. period.
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The main reasons, were that France wanted its own deterence force and a full control over its muilitary forces.
Two questions related to this statement particularly the "full control of its military forces", if I may:
1. What's changed now to alter that desire?
2. How well did you do the last time you 'had full control of your military forces?'
Two questions related to this statement particularly the "full control of its military forces", if I may:
1. What's changed now to alter that desire?
2. How well did you do the last time you 'had full control of your military forces?'
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Caspian237 said:
Well said. 
If someone came out with the old 'Why do the French plant trees at the side of the road?' gag, I'd be sorely dissapointed with the quality of debate here. Surely, we've moved on a bit and the time to recognise the French military as more than shiny, pampered, over rated wine sipping dilettantes must be getting closer.
('To allow the Germans to march in the shade' by the way).
By the way. I just returned home to Scotland from Paris today I took some time to visit the fantastic military museum "Les Invalides." France has a proud military history like us and I don't think it does us any justice to constantly poo poo them in the manner of a tabloid newspaper. 
If someone came out with the old 'Why do the French plant trees at the side of the road?' gag, I'd be sorely dissapointed with the quality of debate here. Surely, we've moved on a bit and the time to recognise the French military as more than shiny, pampered, over rated wine sipping dilettantes must be getting closer.
('To allow the Germans to march in the shade' by the way).
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Well it's not really about the French military as such its about the French attitude to others. They are selfish, self serving back stabbing liars. I mean how can you trust a so called civilised nation that hijack lorry loads of sheep and burn them in the middle of the road.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
The reason their last attempt foundered was their insistence on having a European (read French, because of the French fleet) commander of AFSOUTH, which the USA would not countenance because they would not allow anyone but an American in charge of the 6th Fleet.
Perhaps they have changed their minds, or think the Americans have, but if the same condition applies, I cannot see it progressing.
Perhaps they have changed their minds, or think the Americans have, but if the same condition applies, I cannot see it progressing.
I seem to remember that the Belgians one of our staunch NATO allies refused to sell us ammunition at the time of the Falklands war.
Mind you as half of the population is French that might explain it.
Mind you as half of the population is French that might explain it.
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Weather, you like it or not, today, France is the 2nd contributor to NATO forces, with more than 4000 men
Doing what? How many Muslims have French forces killed lately?
Doing what? How many Muslims have French forces killed lately?
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Weather, you like it or not, today, France is the 2nd contributor to NATO forces, with more than 4000 men
Doing what? How many Muslims have French forces killed lately?
Doing what? How many Muslims have French forces killed lately?
Am i the only one here, chocked by that kind of ...stupidity I hope not
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Would someone please delete that comment by Elmo...
Let's look at this in a slightly different light.
You have four financial advisers that manage your money. You used to have five but one of them consistently gave you financial advice that, only half the time, benefited him more than it benefited you. In an eighth of those circumstances the advice benefited him and was detrimental to you. After a stiff talking to he withdrew as an adviser. He now wants to be one of your advisers again. Do you?
As Goldfinger said to James Bond:-
Once is happenstance,
Twice is coincidence,
Three times is an act of war.
More than once the French have benefited themselves at the cost of their "allies"...
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Ive just seen their SOP'S for deployment abroad
Weather, you like it or not, today, France is the 2nd contributor to NATO forces, with more than 4000 men
Well, at least you won't see any Frenchman kissing Bush's arse like that simpering poodle Tony somebody-or-other who was once prime minister of the UK....
Kissing eachother, perhaps....
During WW2, long before Uncle Spam joined in, some Free French pilots were serving in the RAF. At some stage, there was a parade for medals various to be presented. The Sqn Cdr knew that the visiting wheel hated the French habit of kissing on the cheek....and realised that the Frog with a twinkle in his eye about to be presented with a medal knew it as well. Powerless to intercede, the Sqn Cdr watched in horror as, having been presented with his medal, the Frenchman took a half step forward, barked out "Merci, mon General!", then grabbed the visiting wheel and kissed him firmly.....on the lips!
Churchill, when told once that he should be more friendly towards De Gaulle, is reputed to have said "I shall, if necessary, kiss him on the cheeks. All four, if needed!"
Allez la France!
Kissing eachother, perhaps....
During WW2, long before Uncle Spam joined in, some Free French pilots were serving in the RAF. At some stage, there was a parade for medals various to be presented. The Sqn Cdr knew that the visiting wheel hated the French habit of kissing on the cheek....and realised that the Frog with a twinkle in his eye about to be presented with a medal knew it as well. Powerless to intercede, the Sqn Cdr watched in horror as, having been presented with his medal, the Frenchman took a half step forward, barked out "Merci, mon General!", then grabbed the visiting wheel and kissed him firmly.....on the lips!
Churchill, when told once that he should be more friendly towards De Gaulle, is reputed to have said "I shall, if necessary, kiss him on the cheeks. All four, if needed!"
Allez la France!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Well, at least you won't see any Frenchman kissing Bush's arse like that simpering poodle Tony somebody-or-other who was once prime minister of the UK....
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
DefenseNews: France: Debate Still Open on NATO Integration
France is preparing for a possible return to the integrated military command of NATO, but discussions remain at a preliminary stage and no decision has yet been taken, a senior defense official said September 25. He was speaking after President Nicolas Sarkozy gave the clearest sign yet of French intentions, telling the New York Times of two conditions for reintegration — a boosted European Union defense body and a guarantee of senior French posts inside NATO’s top command structures.
“Without progress on these two prerequisites, there will be no reintegration. Once we make progress on these, we can talk about the opportuneness of reintegration,” Sarkozy said in an interview ahead of his visit to the UN General Assembly in New York.
“These issues have not yet been decided on,” the official said, indicating that detailed negotiations with both U.S. and British officials are now in the planning stages. A new white paper spelling out French defense thinking has also been commissioned by Sarkozy and is due in March. “The central question is finding a proper coordination between the European Union — a political and economic organization whose military arm is the common security and defense policy — and NATO, which is a military organization with an ever-greater political profile,” the official said. On the question of senior posts, these should include “divisional and headquarters command positions,” he said.
A founding member of NATO, France left the bloc’s integrated military command in 1966 when Charles de Gaulle decided to assert sovereign control over the armed forces. Since the early 1990s, there has been a gradual rapprochement and France has taken part in NATO missions, but it still cultivates an awkward semi-autonomous position inside the organization. Sarkozy’s initiative is a further sign of a reappraisal of French foreign policy since his accession in May, with a dramatic improvement of relations with the United States at its center.
Last month, Sarkozy told an annual meeting of French ambassadors that the nation wished to “resume its full place” at the heart of NATO, and Defense Minister Herve Morin two weeks ago linked the future of EU defense with French reintegration in the alliance. “My belief is that European defense will only advance if we change our political behavior inside NATO. Too often we are the ones who bicker ... as if to give the impression that we do not want NATO to change,” he said.
In his New York Times interview, Sarkozy said, “We have to stop presenting NATO as some kind of bogeyman. Regardless of NATO’s importance, Europe must be able to defend itself effectively and independently. Europe cannot be an economic power without ensuring its own security. So I would make progress on European defense a condition for moving into the integrated command, and I am asking our American friends to understand that,” he said.
Critics accuse Sarkozy of swinging uncritically into the U.S. camp, and warn that French influence in the world will be diminished if it loses an independent voice.
France is preparing for a possible return to the integrated military command of NATO, but discussions remain at a preliminary stage and no decision has yet been taken, a senior defense official said September 25. He was speaking after President Nicolas Sarkozy gave the clearest sign yet of French intentions, telling the New York Times of two conditions for reintegration — a boosted European Union defense body and a guarantee of senior French posts inside NATO’s top command structures.
“Without progress on these two prerequisites, there will be no reintegration. Once we make progress on these, we can talk about the opportuneness of reintegration,” Sarkozy said in an interview ahead of his visit to the UN General Assembly in New York.
“These issues have not yet been decided on,” the official said, indicating that detailed negotiations with both U.S. and British officials are now in the planning stages. A new white paper spelling out French defense thinking has also been commissioned by Sarkozy and is due in March. “The central question is finding a proper coordination between the European Union — a political and economic organization whose military arm is the common security and defense policy — and NATO, which is a military organization with an ever-greater political profile,” the official said. On the question of senior posts, these should include “divisional and headquarters command positions,” he said.
A founding member of NATO, France left the bloc’s integrated military command in 1966 when Charles de Gaulle decided to assert sovereign control over the armed forces. Since the early 1990s, there has been a gradual rapprochement and France has taken part in NATO missions, but it still cultivates an awkward semi-autonomous position inside the organization. Sarkozy’s initiative is a further sign of a reappraisal of French foreign policy since his accession in May, with a dramatic improvement of relations with the United States at its center.
Last month, Sarkozy told an annual meeting of French ambassadors that the nation wished to “resume its full place” at the heart of NATO, and Defense Minister Herve Morin two weeks ago linked the future of EU defense with French reintegration in the alliance. “My belief is that European defense will only advance if we change our political behavior inside NATO. Too often we are the ones who bicker ... as if to give the impression that we do not want NATO to change,” he said.
In his New York Times interview, Sarkozy said, “We have to stop presenting NATO as some kind of bogeyman. Regardless of NATO’s importance, Europe must be able to defend itself effectively and independently. Europe cannot be an economic power without ensuring its own security. So I would make progress on European defense a condition for moving into the integrated command, and I am asking our American friends to understand that,” he said.
Critics accuse Sarkozy of swinging uncritically into the U.S. camp, and warn that French influence in the world will be diminished if it loses an independent voice.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Independent: France moves closer to rejoining Nato
France has taken a step towards rejoining the Nato military alliance with a series of proposals for closer relations between the organisation and the European Union.
In recent weeks both President Nicolas Sarkozy and his Defence Minister, Hervé Morin, have spoken about the possibility of ending four decades of French isolation from the US-dominated military command of the western alliance. In what is seen as the first concrete step in that direction, the French government has sent a document to the alliance's political headquarters in Brussels proposing four ways of sharing information and strategic thinking between Nato and the EU foreign and defence policies.
In its written proposals to Nato, Paris suggests that the EU high representative for foreign affairs should regularly brief the Nato Atlantic Council. The secretary general of Nato should also be invited to appear before EU foreign ministers. France is also calling for regular working contacts between the Nato and EU bodies which consider arms procurement. It also wants new procedures for the exchange of information between the Nato and EU crisis and disaster co-ordination agencies. France is to present its ideas to a meeting of the EU political and security committee on Friday.
All of these ideas may seem merely technical but they represent almost a U-turn from previous French hostility to EU-Nato links. It is a radical shift from the approach of President Jacques Chirac, and previous French leaders, who objected to closer links between the two Brussels-based organisations since President Charles de Gaulle abruptly pulled France out of Nato in 1966 and ejected the Nato military headquarters from French soil.
In the past decade, France, with on-off support from Britain, has sought to build an EU defence and security policy in parallel with Nato. Paris is now saying that the two organisations should work hand in hand.
De Gaulle's decision positioned France as a western-aligned, but not slavishly pro-American, nation. This has been the bedrock of French foreign policy ever since and is unlikely to change completely, even if France rejoins Nato. President Sarkozy has suggested that he will re- position French foreign policy to be neither systematically pro-American nor knee-jerk anti- American. Washington and other Nato countries, including Britain, have broadly welcomed the French moves but some suspicion remains.
Washington officials are said to fear that M. Sarkozy is trying to build up EU defence policy as a cuckoo within the Nato nest, rather than a rival outside it.
President Chirac made tentative overtures to rejoin the military wing of the alliance in 1997. These foundered because the US objected to a demand from France for a senior military command covering the Mediterranean. President Sarkozy is likely to make a similar demand.
The French military has been favourable to rejoining the military part of the western alliance for years. Army chiefs in particular say that France has suffered by its exclusion from Nato strategic thinking and the development of military command systems.
France has taken a step towards rejoining the Nato military alliance with a series of proposals for closer relations between the organisation and the European Union.
In recent weeks both President Nicolas Sarkozy and his Defence Minister, Hervé Morin, have spoken about the possibility of ending four decades of French isolation from the US-dominated military command of the western alliance. In what is seen as the first concrete step in that direction, the French government has sent a document to the alliance's political headquarters in Brussels proposing four ways of sharing information and strategic thinking between Nato and the EU foreign and defence policies.
In its written proposals to Nato, Paris suggests that the EU high representative for foreign affairs should regularly brief the Nato Atlantic Council. The secretary general of Nato should also be invited to appear before EU foreign ministers. France is also calling for regular working contacts between the Nato and EU bodies which consider arms procurement. It also wants new procedures for the exchange of information between the Nato and EU crisis and disaster co-ordination agencies. France is to present its ideas to a meeting of the EU political and security committee on Friday.
All of these ideas may seem merely technical but they represent almost a U-turn from previous French hostility to EU-Nato links. It is a radical shift from the approach of President Jacques Chirac, and previous French leaders, who objected to closer links between the two Brussels-based organisations since President Charles de Gaulle abruptly pulled France out of Nato in 1966 and ejected the Nato military headquarters from French soil.
In the past decade, France, with on-off support from Britain, has sought to build an EU defence and security policy in parallel with Nato. Paris is now saying that the two organisations should work hand in hand.
De Gaulle's decision positioned France as a western-aligned, but not slavishly pro-American, nation. This has been the bedrock of French foreign policy ever since and is unlikely to change completely, even if France rejoins Nato. President Sarkozy has suggested that he will re- position French foreign policy to be neither systematically pro-American nor knee-jerk anti- American. Washington and other Nato countries, including Britain, have broadly welcomed the French moves but some suspicion remains.
Washington officials are said to fear that M. Sarkozy is trying to build up EU defence policy as a cuckoo within the Nato nest, rather than a rival outside it.
President Chirac made tentative overtures to rejoin the military wing of the alliance in 1997. These foundered because the US objected to a demand from France for a senior military command covering the Mediterranean. President Sarkozy is likely to make a similar demand.
The French military has been favourable to rejoining the military part of the western alliance for years. Army chiefs in particular say that France has suffered by its exclusion from Nato strategic thinking and the development of military command systems.
