Iran to Buy 250 SU30s & Tankers?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Iran to Buy 250 SU30s & Tankers?
Reports: Iran to buy jets from Russia
Israel is looking into reports that Russia plans to sell 250 advanced long-range Sukhoi-30 fighter jets to Iran in an unprecedented billion-dollar deal.
According to reports, in addition to the fighter jets, Teheran also plans to purchase a number of aerial fuel tankers that are compatible with the Sukhoi and capable of extending its range by thousands of kilometers. Defense officials said the Sukhoi sale would grant Iran long-range offensive capabilities.
Government officials voiced concern over the reports. They said Russia could be trying to compete with the United States, which announced over the weekend a billion-dollar arms sale to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.
Despite Israeli and US opposition, Russia recently supplied Iran with advanced antiaircraft systems used to protect Teheran's nuclear installations. At the time, Moscow said it reserved the right to sell Iran weapons, such as the antiaircraft system, that were of a defensive nature.
The Sukhoi-30 is a two-seat multi-role fighter jet and bomber capable of operating at significant distances from home base and in poor weather conditions. The aircraft enjoys a wide range of combat capabilities and is used for air patrol, air defense, ground attacks, enemy air defense suppression and air-to-air combat.
After years of negotiations, the Indian Air Force in 1996 purchased 40 Sukhoi-30s and in 2000 acquired the license from the company to manufacture an additional 140 aircrafts.
Israel is looking into reports that Russia plans to sell 250 advanced long-range Sukhoi-30 fighter jets to Iran in an unprecedented billion-dollar deal.
According to reports, in addition to the fighter jets, Teheran also plans to purchase a number of aerial fuel tankers that are compatible with the Sukhoi and capable of extending its range by thousands of kilometers. Defense officials said the Sukhoi sale would grant Iran long-range offensive capabilities.
Government officials voiced concern over the reports. They said Russia could be trying to compete with the United States, which announced over the weekend a billion-dollar arms sale to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.
Despite Israeli and US opposition, Russia recently supplied Iran with advanced antiaircraft systems used to protect Teheran's nuclear installations. At the time, Moscow said it reserved the right to sell Iran weapons, such as the antiaircraft system, that were of a defensive nature.
The Sukhoi-30 is a two-seat multi-role fighter jet and bomber capable of operating at significant distances from home base and in poor weather conditions. The aircraft enjoys a wide range of combat capabilities and is used for air patrol, air defense, ground attacks, enemy air defense suppression and air-to-air combat.
After years of negotiations, the Indian Air Force in 1996 purchased 40 Sukhoi-30s and in 2000 acquired the license from the company to manufacture an additional 140 aircrafts.
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Ooh look, an arms race....
ORAC: many thanks for posting this.
Well, there's a surprise! US/UK/FR pour weapons into Saudi and the Gulf states, (as well as Israel) and those nasty Iranians rush off to the rotten Russians and offer them a billion dollars for squillions of Su-30s and AAR (presumably Il-78s) tankers.... quelle surprise....
If true, then the more concerning thing is whether the threat posed by the new Su-30s and associated weapons systems actually increases the attraction of a pre-emptive strike -- see NSC 2002 (www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.pdf) for the current US doctrine of Premptive Strikes (acting first when an enemy looks likely to attack) and Preventative War (stopping the threat emerging).
The first of these is of dubious legality (depending in effect on how close the attack is) and the second is completely illegal.
Ho hum - we seem destined to live in ever more interesting times!
S41
Well, there's a surprise! US/UK/FR pour weapons into Saudi and the Gulf states, (as well as Israel) and those nasty Iranians rush off to the rotten Russians and offer them a billion dollars for squillions of Su-30s and AAR (presumably Il-78s) tankers.... quelle surprise....
If true, then the more concerning thing is whether the threat posed by the new Su-30s and associated weapons systems actually increases the attraction of a pre-emptive strike -- see NSC 2002 (www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.pdf) for the current US doctrine of Premptive Strikes (acting first when an enemy looks likely to attack) and Preventative War (stopping the threat emerging).
The first of these is of dubious legality (depending in effect on how close the attack is) and the second is completely illegal.
Ho hum - we seem destined to live in ever more interesting times!
S41
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You know the flat earthers that have been slagging off the Air-to-Air Typhoon? The ones that have been repeatedly asking why the UK needs a fighter force as there's no perceivable threat? Where are they now? Seems there's some humble pie to be eaten
Will we have enough Typhoon's and just as important tankers and all the other support to go with them??
Short answer = NO
Short answer = NO
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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DebkaFile:
Tehran and the Russian Rosoboronexport arms group are about to sign a mammoth arms deal running into tens of billions of dollars for the sale to Tehran of 250 Su-30MKM warplanes and 20 IL-78 MKI fuel tankers.
DEBKAfile’s military sources report Iran has stipulated delivery of the first aircraft before the end of 2007.
The transaction, Russia’s largest arms deal in 30 years, will endow Iran with a long-range aerial assault capability. The Sukhoi can sustain a four-and-a-half hour raid at its maximum range of 3,000 km against long-distance, marine and low-lying ground targets across the Persian Gulf and Middle East, including Israel and Lebanon.
The fuel tankers extends the Su-30MKM’s assault sustainability to 10 hours and its range to 8,000 km at altitudes of 11-13 km. The closest comparable plane in the West is the American F-15E fighter bomber. Iran’s acquisition of an exceptionally large fleet of the Russian fighter-bomber will elevate its air force to one of the two largest and most advanced in the region, alongside the Israeli Air Force.
Iranian air crews are already training on the new Sukhoi aircraft, ready to start flying them early next year with only a short delay after delivery.
DEBKAfile’s sources report that Moscow is selling Tehran the same Sukhoi model as India received earlier this year. The Iranians leaned hard on New Delhi to let them have the Israeli avionics and electronics the Indian Air Force had installed in the Russian craft. India refused.
Russia began delivering the same craft in June to Malaysia, which also sought Israeli avionics without success. The Su-20MKM has won the nickname of “Islamic Version of Sukhoi.”
Its two-member crew shares the workload. The first pilot flies the aircraft, controls weapons and maneuvers the plane in a dogfight. The co-pilot employs BVR air-to-air and air-to-ground guided weapons in long-range engagements, sweeps the arena for enemy craft or missiles and performs as command-and-control in group missions.
Some of the plane’s systems are products of the French Thales Airborne Systems company. Moscow’s contract with Tehran for the sale of the Su-30MKM must therefore be cleared with Paris.
There is no decision in Jerusalem about asking Paris to withhold its consent to a deal which would substantially upgrade the long-range air assault capabilities of the Islamic Republic whose leaders want to wipe Israel off the map. However, President Nicolas Sarkozy is in mid-momentum of a diplomatic drive in the Arab and Muslim world and unlikely to be receptive to an Israeli approach. The only chance of aborting the Russian sale would be to route the approach through Washington.
Tehran and the Russian Rosoboronexport arms group are about to sign a mammoth arms deal running into tens of billions of dollars for the sale to Tehran of 250 Su-30MKM warplanes and 20 IL-78 MKI fuel tankers.
DEBKAfile’s military sources report Iran has stipulated delivery of the first aircraft before the end of 2007.
The transaction, Russia’s largest arms deal in 30 years, will endow Iran with a long-range aerial assault capability. The Sukhoi can sustain a four-and-a-half hour raid at its maximum range of 3,000 km against long-distance, marine and low-lying ground targets across the Persian Gulf and Middle East, including Israel and Lebanon.
The fuel tankers extends the Su-30MKM’s assault sustainability to 10 hours and its range to 8,000 km at altitudes of 11-13 km. The closest comparable plane in the West is the American F-15E fighter bomber. Iran’s acquisition of an exceptionally large fleet of the Russian fighter-bomber will elevate its air force to one of the two largest and most advanced in the region, alongside the Israeli Air Force.
Iranian air crews are already training on the new Sukhoi aircraft, ready to start flying them early next year with only a short delay after delivery.
DEBKAfile’s sources report that Moscow is selling Tehran the same Sukhoi model as India received earlier this year. The Iranians leaned hard on New Delhi to let them have the Israeli avionics and electronics the Indian Air Force had installed in the Russian craft. India refused.
Russia began delivering the same craft in June to Malaysia, which also sought Israeli avionics without success. The Su-20MKM has won the nickname of “Islamic Version of Sukhoi.”
Its two-member crew shares the workload. The first pilot flies the aircraft, controls weapons and maneuvers the plane in a dogfight. The co-pilot employs BVR air-to-air and air-to-ground guided weapons in long-range engagements, sweeps the arena for enemy craft or missiles and performs as command-and-control in group missions.
Some of the plane’s systems are products of the French Thales Airborne Systems company. Moscow’s contract with Tehran for the sale of the Su-30MKM must therefore be cleared with Paris.
There is no decision in Jerusalem about asking Paris to withhold its consent to a deal which would substantially upgrade the long-range air assault capabilities of the Islamic Republic whose leaders want to wipe Israel off the map. However, President Nicolas Sarkozy is in mid-momentum of a diplomatic drive in the Arab and Muslim world and unlikely to be receptive to an Israeli approach. The only chance of aborting the Russian sale would be to route the approach through Washington.
I'm somewhat sceptical about Iran's ability to maintain and run an airforce of 250 FJs, plus tankers, without serious input from the Russians on a day to day level.
Like flying them for a start. If the Indians have only got a max of 180, and they're a somewhat more stable nation state, how else will the Iranians come from nowhere (I'm assuming the Iranian airforce currently consists of a couple of F14 gathering dust, not having flown for 20 years) to an airforce of 250+?
Like flying them for a start. If the Indians have only got a max of 180, and they're a somewhat more stable nation state, how else will the Iranians come from nowhere (I'm assuming the Iranian airforce currently consists of a couple of F14 gathering dust, not having flown for 20 years) to an airforce of 250+?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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I would be hesitant to jump to such conclusions. They have succesfully kept their F-14s flying despite sanctions and have produced their own indigenous fighter based on the F-5.
Their orbat contains over 300 F-14s, F-4s, F-5s, Su-24s, Mig-27s, MiG-29s, Mirage F-1s and Chinese J-6 and J-7s.
Iran - Air Force ORBAT
Their orbat contains over 300 F-14s, F-4s, F-5s, Su-24s, Mig-27s, MiG-29s, Mirage F-1s and Chinese J-6 and J-7s.
Iran - Air Force ORBAT
Hamish, the Indians have a mixed country of purchase inventory in aircraft, so therefore are not beholden to one single state. They fly British (Sea Harriers) French (Mirage 2000) and Soviet (SU 30 Flanker H) designed combat aircraft.
Whilst it may take time for the Iranian air force to learn the new systems, only they know their time scale to full operational capability and more importantly what they want to do with it.
The Indian gave the Americans quite a shock at Cope India, who is to say others cannot do the same given enough time, money and ability.
Are people going to be advocating the same road as recent history and a dodgy dossier perhaps.
The French as usual will do what is best for France and NOBODY else.
Whilst it may take time for the Iranian air force to learn the new systems, only they know their time scale to full operational capability and more importantly what they want to do with it.
The Indian gave the Americans quite a shock at Cope India, who is to say others cannot do the same given enough time, money and ability.
Are people going to be advocating the same road as recent history and a dodgy dossier perhaps.
The French as usual will do what is best for France and NOBODY else.
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Excellent, another Cold War in the offing. More Defence spending here, recruitment frenzy, Iranian nuclear weapon development, Russia and China supporting the Iranians in the UN. The Americans won the last Cold War because they had more money. Next time.....
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"Whilst it may take time for the Iranian air force to learn the new systems..."
True. Especially so if they are merging their defence procurement and logistics agencies or going through some kind of slimming down, leaning if you will, type process. hat..... coat....
Would we put it past the Russians to put their own pilots into Iranian SU-30s, in the same way the Chinese did in Korea? That would certainly speed things up in terms of perceived capability.
True. Especially so if they are merging their defence procurement and logistics agencies or going through some kind of slimming down, leaning if you will, type process. hat..... coat....
Would we put it past the Russians to put their own pilots into Iranian SU-30s, in the same way the Chinese did in Korea? That would certainly speed things up in terms of perceived capability.
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Genuine question, folks.
So, Tehran has 250+ mega Jabo's. What is the likely scenario, then? Close the Straits of Hormuz, obviously. Then what? Invade? Who? Over a land border would be easier, I presume. Iraq, then. Any good stratagists in here tonight? What are they going to do next?
So, Tehran has 250+ mega Jabo's. What is the likely scenario, then? Close the Straits of Hormuz, obviously. Then what? Invade? Who? Over a land border would be easier, I presume. Iraq, then. Any good stratagists in here tonight? What are they going to do next?
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You know the flat earthers that have been slagging off the Air-to-Air Typhoon? The ones that have been repeatedly asking why the UK needs a fighter force as there's no perceivable threat? Where are they now?
Apart from closing the Straits of Hormuz, and the oil distribution network from the Gulf to the rest of the world, how about attacking the Emirate States ?? I suspect that Iran sees them as lesser adherents to Islam than they are. Saudi Arabia for allowing non Muslims to be stationed in the country which has two of the three holiest sites in the Islamic religion.
Qatar, which has a very high percentage of the world's natural gas supplies, and of course with tankers their old enemy, Israel.
Just having the ability to close the Gulf has the effect of stopping the world. Oil and gas in the quantities required can only be moved by tanker. Vulnerable, you bet.
Do not forget it was rumoured that the North Vietnamese had aircrew from overseas and who is to say the ex Russian aircrew would not work for the Iranian's for a serious amount of money. You only have to look at Flight International adverts for the sand pit on contract for fast jet aircrew for training units, does not take much to move in to a combat role.
The UAE air-force over recent years has upgraded with a massive spending spree at the arms bazzar's round the world.
With increase from the USA of defence aid to Egypt Israel and Saudi Arabia, this is ratcheting up the potential for conflict. Will Iran feel themselves threatened ??
You do not need to use aircraft to close the Gulf, just by using land based anti shipping missiles which Iran has, but aircraft give flexabilty
Mark D Only 2 countries with TLAMs, ergo GW III, Russians are not going to attack their customers.
Qatar, which has a very high percentage of the world's natural gas supplies, and of course with tankers their old enemy, Israel.
Just having the ability to close the Gulf has the effect of stopping the world. Oil and gas in the quantities required can only be moved by tanker. Vulnerable, you bet.
Do not forget it was rumoured that the North Vietnamese had aircrew from overseas and who is to say the ex Russian aircrew would not work for the Iranian's for a serious amount of money. You only have to look at Flight International adverts for the sand pit on contract for fast jet aircrew for training units, does not take much to move in to a combat role.
The UAE air-force over recent years has upgraded with a massive spending spree at the arms bazzar's round the world.
With increase from the USA of defence aid to Egypt Israel and Saudi Arabia, this is ratcheting up the potential for conflict. Will Iran feel themselves threatened ??
You do not need to use aircraft to close the Gulf, just by using land based anti shipping missiles which Iran has, but aircraft give flexabilty
Mark D Only 2 countries with TLAMs, ergo GW III, Russians are not going to attack their customers.
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This thread here on a 'rival' site seems interesting.
Although, that dutch fellow seems to have a grudge.
It does seem quite worrying though. Perhaps hypocritical that Israel are harping on, while they receive an increase in Military aid.
Will this increase the numbers of F-22As if deemed a credible threat
Although, that dutch fellow seems to have a grudge.
It does seem quite worrying though. Perhaps hypocritical that Israel are harping on, while they receive an increase in Military aid.
Will this increase the numbers of F-22As if deemed a credible threat
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Is the SU30M, really as good as some people say.
I have seen a video of it flying, and doing great moves, but does that make it into a F22 compatable platform.
I presume that the Russians are pushing this airplane, into air forces that cannot get clearance for the later US types.
Anyone know how much is this real threat.
Regards
Col Tigwell
I have seen a video of it flying, and doing great moves, but does that make it into a F22 compatable platform.
I presume that the Russians are pushing this airplane, into air forces that cannot get clearance for the later US types.
Anyone know how much is this real threat.
Regards
Col Tigwell
May not be as good as an F22A, but numbers have a quality, all of their own. You maybe able to shoot down six opponents but seven eight or nine can still get you.
Would the US, sell the F22 to anybody outside the USA? if not I would not like to bet on the outcome of 1v1 between an F15C and an SU30. That would possibly come down to either a BVR kill scenario or pilot skill in a close in fight.
Having seen Anatoli Kvachutur fly the SU27, in my opinion it would give an F15 a serious fight and I suspect even an F22 if the sukhoi has their version of thrust vectoring.
Would the US, sell the F22 to anybody outside the USA? if not I would not like to bet on the outcome of 1v1 between an F15C and an SU30. That would possibly come down to either a BVR kill scenario or pilot skill in a close in fight.
Having seen Anatoli Kvachutur fly the SU27, in my opinion it would give an F15 a serious fight and I suspect even an F22 if the sukhoi has their version of thrust vectoring.
What acts of aggression have Iran so far carried out against the UK and / or NATO. I understand they are supposed to support the Shia insurgency in Iran yes? Who supports the Sunni insurgency & why is Iraq this massive flashpoint anyway? Is Saudi Arabia really a 'moderate' gulf state and what does moderate mean anyway?
Is a preventative war or pre-emptive strikes similar to waging an aggressive war?
They have more reason to be scared of us than we have of them and historically that would indicate things will go belly up and a whole bunch of people will die.
Nice eh?
Is a preventative war or pre-emptive strikes similar to waging an aggressive war?
They have more reason to be scared of us than we have of them and historically that would indicate things will go belly up and a whole bunch of people will die.
Nice eh?
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Comparison of aircraft v aircraft is all very well but have the Russians come closer to the West in terms of the command and control for the tankers and fighters than say prior to GWI?