Iran to Buy 250 SU30s & Tankers?
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Do not forget it was rumoured that the North Vietnamese had aircrew from overseas
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Load toad
I understand they are supposed to support the Shia insurgency in Iran yes? Who supports the Sunni insurgency & why is Iraq this massive flashpoint anyway? Is Saudi Arabia really a 'moderate' gulf state and what does moderate mean anyway?
that would indicate things will go belly up and a whole bunch of people will die.
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Just a minute...
It's not clear to me that Iran intends to attack anyone; this is a paranoid totalitarian regime that fears attack, and has clearly learned the lesson of North Korea: if the rest of the world thinks you're crazy and you have the bomb, they'll all leave you alone. QED, if your motive is regime survival then you go for the nuclear option as fast as you can.
Seen with Iranian eyes and paranoid outlook, they will see Israel and some American politicians publicly calling for Iran to be attacked, Condi Rice in town to call them terrible people and agree to sell USD20bn of weapons to the sunni Arab states and give USD30bn over the next ten years to Israel, already the regional superpower.
All of which may mean that if your goal is regime survival, you'll want to have the best defence you can get, and you'll go to the suppliers who will supply you - in this case, the Russians.
S41
Seen with Iranian eyes and paranoid outlook, they will see Israel and some American politicians publicly calling for Iran to be attacked, Condi Rice in town to call them terrible people and agree to sell USD20bn of weapons to the sunni Arab states and give USD30bn over the next ten years to Israel, already the regional superpower.
All of which may mean that if your goal is regime survival, you'll want to have the best defence you can get, and you'll go to the suppliers who will supply you - in this case, the Russians.
S41
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I agree with S41.
The US seems incapable of understanding the concept of having power without projecting it.
PS: Do you think George W can spell "arms race"?
It's scary that the US give so much MIL support to this region, and especially since some of the rulers in some of the "moderate muslim countries" are on pretty much the same page as Al Q. in many cases.
The House of Saud has forgotten about all their old friends right?
The US seems incapable of understanding the concept of having power without projecting it.
PS: Do you think George W can spell "arms race"?
It's scary that the US give so much MIL support to this region, and especially since some of the rulers in some of the "moderate muslim countries" are on pretty much the same page as Al Q. in many cases.
The House of Saud has forgotten about all their old friends right?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
PS: Do you think George W can spell "arms race"?
PARIS --- The Saudi government last week agreed to purchase a total of 142 helicopters from France, in a deal that will modernize its military helicopter fleet at a single stroke and that, together with additional contracts to follow, firmly establishes France as the kingdom’s main weapons supplier.....
TAC Int Bloke
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Interesting isn't it? A topic that highlights the ability of a very iffy but rich nation to buy in high tec weapons off the shelf and that totally vindicates the RAF's position in continuing with the purchase of the Typhoon because "you never know what's going to happen next" descends into the by now almost compulsory "slag off the US fest"
I'd really just like to see some of those "experts" that have called for the rundown of an AD capability say "sorry - we were wrong" and get themselves to a monastery for some self flagration - come on guys
I'd really just like to see some of those "experts" that have called for the rundown of an AD capability say "sorry - we were wrong" and get themselves to a monastery for some self flagration - come on guys
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Orac said "Some of the plane’s systems are products of the French Thales Airborne Sys
Good job the French have such well controlled Arms rules, they would never do anything without a Licence..... or answer B.
Watch for increased Tehran owned properties along the Riveria when this goes through, it would make sense to put them next door to the Saudi's who will be moving into their new Eurocopter houses soon!
Cheers, THH (packing for Sudan, I may be awhile! Boss said we'd be home for Christmas)
Watch for increased Tehran owned properties along the Riveria when this goes through, it would make sense to put them next door to the Saudi's who will be moving into their new Eurocopter houses soon!
Cheers, THH (packing for Sudan, I may be awhile! Boss said we'd be home for Christmas)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Kommersant: ......At the end of last week, the popular Israeli Internet site Debka reported that Iran is signing a multibillion-dollar contract with Russia for the delivery of 250 Su-30MKM fighter planes and 20 Il-78MKM aerial refueling planes.........That same information was published in the influential Jerusalem Post on Monday.
The Israeli press reports caused consternation in Russia. “It's either a provocation or it's delusion,” Dmitry Shugaev, chief of staff of the Rosoboronexport general director told Kommersant.
A Sukhoi spokesman told Kommersant that “It is a provocation by the Israeli media. here are no negotiations with Iran for the delivery of fighter planes, much less such a huge lot.” Nor does the Russian Foreign Ministry or Defense Ministry know anything about them.
A high-placed representative of the United Aviation Construction Corp. told Kommersant that filling such a large order in the next few years would not be possible even theoretically. “There are only three plants in Russia that assembler fighter planes of the Su-30 type – in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Irkutsk and Novosibirsk, and they are all engaged with orders. So there is no one to make 250 planes for Iran,” he said.
Independent experts also say that such an order is unfillable. “Even with good market conditions for oil prices, Iran isn't likely to come up with the necessary sum. Two hundred fifty fighters of the Su-303MKM type – that's about $10 billion,” noted Konstantin Makienko of the Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology.
The Israeli press reports caused consternation in Russia. “It's either a provocation or it's delusion,” Dmitry Shugaev, chief of staff of the Rosoboronexport general director told Kommersant.
A Sukhoi spokesman told Kommersant that “It is a provocation by the Israeli media. here are no negotiations with Iran for the delivery of fighter planes, much less such a huge lot.” Nor does the Russian Foreign Ministry or Defense Ministry know anything about them.
A high-placed representative of the United Aviation Construction Corp. told Kommersant that filling such a large order in the next few years would not be possible even theoretically. “There are only three plants in Russia that assembler fighter planes of the Su-30 type – in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Irkutsk and Novosibirsk, and they are all engaged with orders. So there is no one to make 250 planes for Iran,” he said.
Independent experts also say that such an order is unfillable. “Even with good market conditions for oil prices, Iran isn't likely to come up with the necessary sum. Two hundred fifty fighters of the Su-303MKM type – that's about $10 billion,” noted Konstantin Makienko of the Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology.
>TC,
Thanks for your clarification.
I was just wondering where the black gold went from Iran before it went to China and who made sure it went west and how he got into power anyway and what he did when he was there.
You reap what you sow.
The Cold War never ended - The Great Game goes on - to the detriment of us all.
Thanks for your clarification.
I was just wondering where the black gold went from Iran before it went to China and who made sure it went west and how he got into power anyway and what he did when he was there.
You reap what you sow.
The Cold War never ended - The Great Game goes on - to the detriment of us all.
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Green Flash,
It sounds like a very sensible plan from the Iranians. They already have a large but 2nd rate air force, and even if any guarantee was to be made by Tehran for not producing nuclear weapons, Iran would remain still a target of the US. It would be sound judgement to pre-empt this removal of nuclear capability with an increase in airforce capability. Air attack is where any assault on Iran is likely to materialise.
It sounds like a very sensible plan from the Iranians. They already have a large but 2nd rate air force, and even if any guarantee was to be made by Tehran for not producing nuclear weapons, Iran would remain still a target of the US. It would be sound judgement to pre-empt this removal of nuclear capability with an increase in airforce capability. Air attack is where any assault on Iran is likely to materialise.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Just as sensible for logistic reasons. If you look at the list of aircraft types they operate the spares and engineering support must be horrendous. let alone keeping aircraft like the F-14/F-4 flying with sanctions.
Rationalising fleets down to only 2 or 3 types and variants thereof such as the Mig-35, Mig-31 and SU-30/35 would only make sense.
Rationalising fleets down to only 2 or 3 types and variants thereof such as the Mig-35, Mig-31 and SU-30/35 would only make sense.
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Let's hope they are getting the planes for local action.
I'd hate to find out that they have harvested the strontium 90 out of a few soviet lighthouses in order to pull off a NOE attack on somebody.
http://www.bellona.org/english_impor...ncidents/31772
I'd hate to find out that they have harvested the strontium 90 out of a few soviet lighthouses in order to pull off a NOE attack on somebody.
http://www.bellona.org/english_impor...ncidents/31772
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It's not clear to me that Iran intends to attack anyone;
Syria is now effectively a client state of Iran.
Iran is supporting Shia militias in Iraq, which are attacking the US. Iran is also suspected of using its Quds force to kidnap and kill 5 US soldiers in a very sophisticated attack in Karabala, on January 20th.
Iran is already attacking several countries. Anyone who asserts otherwise just hasn't been paying attention.
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Obviously, but....
OFBSLF:
In the words of a certain tv programme, "yes, but no, but yes but no."
The point here is that the current Iranian regime certainly has been supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon and insurgents of various stripes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably Hamas in the Occupied Territories as an asymmetric effort to counter what it sees as "Western / Zionist" hegemony in the Middle East, and more importantly what it sees as a series of attacks against Iran dating back to the 1979 "Islamic" Revolution.
This, in Iranian demonology, is directly traceable to the "Great Satan" of the USA, stemming from the US trade embargo, US actions against non-US firms trading with Iran (see, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3043498.stm or http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/1999/issue3/jv3n3a5.html), and (again in Iranian eyes), US-sponsored effort to dismantle the Iranian Nuclear Programme. Against this, an asymmetric strategy such as the one that they've been employing is proportionate, sensible and cheap. (Especially since the US/UK have so thoughtfully put so many of their troops on the ground next door in Iraq and Afghanistan).
NONE OF WHICH EXCUSES Iran's actions in law.
But when the Tehran regime is faced with what it perceives - and can present to its' long suffering populace - as an existential threat to the State, then getting the equipment to deal symmetrically with the "threat" of an attack on its nuclear facilities is, seen from Tehran, sensible and proportionate.
So it is at least explicable that Tehran should turn to Moscow for FLANKER and MIDAS with open chequebook, even if we don't like it.
And for the conspiracy theorists out there, isn't it interesting that this report appeared in Israel just at the time the Israelis were being visited by Condi Rice and discussing a new weapons package....
Just my 0.02...
S41
In the words of a certain tv programme, "yes, but no, but yes but no."
The point here is that the current Iranian regime certainly has been supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon and insurgents of various stripes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably Hamas in the Occupied Territories as an asymmetric effort to counter what it sees as "Western / Zionist" hegemony in the Middle East, and more importantly what it sees as a series of attacks against Iran dating back to the 1979 "Islamic" Revolution.
This, in Iranian demonology, is directly traceable to the "Great Satan" of the USA, stemming from the US trade embargo, US actions against non-US firms trading with Iran (see, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3043498.stm or http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/1999/issue3/jv3n3a5.html), and (again in Iranian eyes), US-sponsored effort to dismantle the Iranian Nuclear Programme. Against this, an asymmetric strategy such as the one that they've been employing is proportionate, sensible and cheap. (Especially since the US/UK have so thoughtfully put so many of their troops on the ground next door in Iraq and Afghanistan).
NONE OF WHICH EXCUSES Iran's actions in law.
But when the Tehran regime is faced with what it perceives - and can present to its' long suffering populace - as an existential threat to the State, then getting the equipment to deal symmetrically with the "threat" of an attack on its nuclear facilities is, seen from Tehran, sensible and proportionate.
So it is at least explicable that Tehran should turn to Moscow for FLANKER and MIDAS with open chequebook, even if we don't like it.
And for the conspiracy theorists out there, isn't it interesting that this report appeared in Israel just at the time the Israelis were being visited by Condi Rice and discussing a new weapons package....
Just my 0.02...
S41
Because if it was 'by proxy' then we'd have to start counting other countries which have used 'by proxy' methods to attack people.
Then we might have a bit of a different image of things.
Then we might have a bit of a different image of things.
TAC Int Bloke
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But - Iran - OK - in the last say 50 years....how many countries has it attacked?
Still, I suppose it was all America's fault anyway
OK so the answer to the question was. None.
What was false about the question? Explain yourself.
Last time I checked Iraq did start the Iran / Iraq war - oh - who was supporting Iraq at that time & why?
I won't deduct points or anything childish like that - just give me a convincing and credible argument that convinces me and I'll happily support it.
Now if we are talking about causing 'mischief' well there are a hell of a lot of governments we can take to task over 'mischief'.
What was false about the question? Explain yourself.
Last time I checked Iraq did start the Iran / Iraq war - oh - who was supporting Iraq at that time & why?
I won't deduct points or anything childish like that - just give me a convincing and credible argument that convinces me and I'll happily support it.
Now if we are talking about causing 'mischief' well there are a hell of a lot of governments we can take to task over 'mischief'.