Gangs Spreading In The Military

[TheInquisitor]

Crime rates have in fact collapsed in the UK as well, despite us locking up fewer people.

According to who, exactly? Utter nonesense, my friend. You must live in a little bubble somewhere - crime is out of control in the UK, violent crime in particular.

[Re-Heat]

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page54.asp

[Wiley]

"I'm reminded of the General who was watching special forces practicing for a raid on a German radar station on a cliff top in France".

Some would say that there is some evidence that that General's attitude was not unique to him alone. I read the (perhaps that should be 'a') book about the unit that carried out the glider assault on (was it?) Pegasus Bridge on D Day. They were very highly trained men, the WW2 equivalent of today's Special Forces. However, after the successful assault, rather than withdraw them to be used in some other coup de main operation where their special skills might have had some effect, the Powers That Be left them in the front line over the next few months until battlefield attrition killed off almost all of them.

The author implied rather heavily that the decision to leave them in the front line grinder came from very high up from traditional Generals who weren't happy with the establishment and use of elite units. (There was similar resistance within the RAF to the Pathfinders and elite squadrons like 617.)

The Israelis in their early days allowed misplaced egalitarianism and national pride to override commonsense when some Generals (or, far more likely, Generals who were more politicians than soldiers), maintained that they could use any soldiers plucked straight from the ranks with no extra training for special ops “because all Israeli soldiers are superb soldiers”. After two or three unmitigated disasters, they went to the other extreme and established very highly trained and unapologetically elite special forces.

***

Many of us seem to think that soldiers having problems re-establishing themselves in ‘normal’ society after a war, (especially those who have seen major combat), is something that occurred only after Vietnam and wars since then. A brief look at history will show that this has always been a problem to the civilian societies who trained these men to be expert in skills no normal society wants its citizens to possess.

After the American Civil War, (and, no doubt, the previous wars against the British), the US Government had the Frontier. Many will be familiar with the ‘Buffalo Soldiers’, the black units established to fight the Indians on the frontier – and just as importantly, get as many blacks as possible with military training and skills (and ‘attitude’) the hell out of the cities. They did exactly the same with many ex-Confederate soldiers and their own veterans. Kevin Costner’s excellent film ‘Dances with Wolves’ touched on this in part.

Regarding the Brits, after WW1, where do you think the Black and Tans came from? Using this often brutal force against the Irish was a classic ‘win-win’ situation for the British Government. While they were cracking Irish heads (and often far worse), they weren’t causing problems as unemployed (and all too often unemployable) on the streets of English cities.

The Australians after WW1, quite fearful of the returned soldiers as a political force that might threaten the status quo], established the Soldier Settlement Scheme, where returned servicemen were given remote (and too small) parcels of land to farm, (many if not most of them untenable – the so-called ‘heartbreak plots’). But it was incredibly successful from the politicians’ perspective, for it dissipated a large proportion of the returned men into isolated individuals rather than have them remain a cohesive group, as they may have done had they all remained in the cities and towns.

After WW2, the Russians had the Gulags. Many of their front line soldiers were sent to the Gulags on trumped up charges because Stalin was terrified of the returning soldiers, especially those who’d fought as partisans and had been ‘contaminated’ by contact with the West.

There was an excellent book written back in the 50s about a Para from the Arnhem landing who went seriously off the rails after the war, written from the perspective of his officer from the war years, who tries (unsuccessfully) to rescue him from the peacetime ‘system’.

Nicholas Monsarrat's excellent ‘The Ship that Died of Shame’ showed quite well the difficulty young men who had carried enormous responsibilities in the war had in fitting into civilian society for which they were ill-equipped and virtually unqualified.

I have little doubt that a proportion of the fellows coming back from Iraq and the ’Stan won’t have just as much difficulty fitting in to a society that, (if the current story of the Nimbys fighting to keep the ‘common soldiery’ from ‘contaminating and devaluing’ their leafy suburb is anything to go by), is on the whole totally unappreciative of what they have gone through.

Who could blame them? The soldiers, I mean, NOT the ***ing Nimbys.

[parabellum]

Unfortunately and for a long time now there has been that pathetic element in th Army, in particular, who despise what they describe as elite units. Almost to a man these sad creatures are the ones that tried and failed to join the SAS, (selection), the Parachute Brigade, (P Company) or basic flying training at Middle Wallop, if not Biggin Hill before that.
Having failed they return to the comfort of the unit they left and spend the rest of their career doing their best to belittle anyone or any unit that isn't just bog standard and open to anyone.

[Maple 01]

According to who, exactly? Utter nonesense, my friend. You must live in a little bubble somewhere - crime is out of control in the UK, violent crime in particular.

Really? And what data are you basing your analysis on - the Daily Hate?
I prefer to work of Crime and Disorder Reduction partnership data, or stuff drawn from the national Crime Survey which, in my area, shows a year-on year fall in serious crime since 2003. Unfortunately there's no point presenting the data here because it will be automatically dismissed by those who want to believe everything was wonderful in the past - what's that Blur album - Modern Life is Rubbish?

[The Helpful Stacker]

People seem to mix a rise in crime with a rise in reporting of crime.

Overall crime rates are falling but criminal activity is better reported these days (especially violent crime, if it bleeds it leads) so the public perception is that because you see more crime on the stupid box then it must be worse now than the good old days.

[Pierre Argh]

All this is rightly worrying... but equally of concern is where are the SNCOs/Officers, who are supposed to have their fingers on the pulse and manage/lead these reprobates?

Don't give me the excuse "there's a war on", surely all the more reason to keep control of your troops and lkeep them a efficient fighting force, focused on the team and fighting the right foe (at the right time).

[parabellum]

Not sure if this is 'on' or 'off' thread now.

Hardly a gang but definitely a case of split loyalty.

In Aden mid sixties, we were a close unit, unaccompanied, so mess life was all.
A small group became members of a local 'lodge' of the RAOB, (Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes), known as 'The Buffs'. They decided their club house was more important than the mess and proceeded to regularly remove pint glasses, (paid for by mess members), to furnish their bar. The theft was noticed and brought to the attention of the mess committee who read the riot act, loyalty to one's mess had to be absolute, any thing else came way, way back.
All would have been well had these characters taken it on the nose but instead they then set about using their various positions to try and disrupt the future of those they deemed responsible for uncovering their mis- deeds. A very unpleasant time that upset a good mess through misguided loyalty. Hope it doesn't happen today.