VC10 T/O flap setting

[tubby linton]

I was at an airfield in Newfoundland a couple of weeks ago and one of Her Majesty's finest tankers asked for a particular runway because they were taking off flapless.I just wondered if this is a normal procedure??

[BEagle]

Under certain conditions a flapless ferry flight may be conducted. This will require the runway and obstacle domain to be acceptable.

Not a very common event, though. At least it didn't used to be....

[tubby linton]

They asked for 13 at Gander as it was just about still air on that one.I suppose flapless take off would obviously mean flapless landing at destination??

[TOPBUNKER]

or perhaps the non-operating pilot (radio geezer) just wanted to get airborne without a FLAP between all those extra people on the flight deck (non-pilot throttle pushers and check-list readers).

[Stanley Eevil]

No, not normal. Flapless ferry back to Brize in this instance due to technical problems.

[charliegolf]

So whatwould be the touchdown speed be in a flapless landing? Sporting?

CG

[Green Flash]

CG - my thoughts exactly! I bet the brakes had been checked VERY carefully before departure. Burn fuel down to the minima and pray for a howling headwind

[FFP]

I think adds something like 50 mins to the brake waiting time landing flapless in a VC-10.

Think I know more about the VC-10 than my current aircraft...........

[tubby linton]

I was on my way through YQX when I saw the Vickers 10-did think it a bit odd they were going flapless ,but you should try a first generation Airbus for odd things happening!

[BEagle]

'Flapless' in the VC0 does not imply that the aircraft was also slatless!

IIRC, Vat flapless is around 20-25 KIAS faster than normal Vat (depends on the mark of aeroplane). The performance calcs. and regs. for take-off, ferry and landing are very straightforward and rarely limiting.

Flapless and slatless would be a full emergency. Something like 40KIAS above normal Vat - and would most likely be the result of a total hydraulic failure which would also mean no TPI trimming, no speedbrakes/spoilers, no nosewheel steering - and little if any braking apart from accumulator and reverse thrust. Never practised in the aeroplane - and not even taught in the simulator on the course. Quite tricky to fly even in the simulator and you need the longest RW you can find. Which is why it's worth knowing where the longets RWs in Europe are - LHR and FRA.

[MrBernoulli]

I recall doing a VC10 flapless ferry from Gander back to Brize. Once you have scrabbled your way through the perf manual it is a complete non-event really.

Is the Newfie weather doing something to the VC10's flaps then?

[SJD]

I apologise that this is a bit off topic but wondered if you could clear this up for me. I have tried looking it up through Google and, hopefully this is correct, slats and flaps do the same job. Just wondering why an aircraft needs both?

(Bizarre question i know!)

Thanks,

SJD

[Dan Winterland]

And I did a slatless ferry once. Complete non event except that the nose down climbout attitude was a bit disconcerting. Captains used to practice a flapless and a slatless landing as a BTR (Basic Training Requirement) every 6 months IIRC.

Flapless landings were relatively common. If you got one of the wing hoses stuck out, you landed flapless to prevent the hose bashing the flap and damaging it on touchdown. I seem to remember that the 6 month flapless requirement was usually met with real events.

Don't think it's a Newfie thing Mr B, but probably due to moose attacks - my ferry was from Goose!