ALMs in Afghanistan
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ALMs in Afghanistan
Today's Telegraph. Can you spot the p1ss-poor non-answer from someone bland? 
Overworked crews suffering from war trauma
By Sean Rayment, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:42am BST 01/07/2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nmedic201.xml
A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "All air loadmasters will complete tours in theatre followed by a period at home, the time periods being determined by the harmony figure. This figure is based upon manning strengths at 100 per cent.
"Consequently, while not all units will achieve harmony, the majority are very close to that if not better.
"Every effort is made to ensure that personnel take their leave whenever possible in order to rest and recuperate."
Overworked crews suffering from war trauma
By Sean Rayment, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:42am BST 01/07/2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nmedic201.xml
A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "All air loadmasters will complete tours in theatre followed by a period at home, the time periods being determined by the harmony figure. This figure is based upon manning strengths at 100 per cent.
"Consequently, while not all units will achieve harmony, the majority are very close to that if not better.
"Every effort is made to ensure that personnel take their leave whenever possible in order to rest and recuperate."
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Continuous six-month tours of duty in both war zones, coupled with the trauma of dealing with badly injured soldiers, is now taking its toll on the mental health of both Chinook pilots and aircrew.
WC
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RAF. I don't think so. Six weeks maybe....!!!!
WC
9 week dets followed by around 4 months at home before doing at all again. Been doing that for 3 years now so wind your neck in. then put the squadron excercises on top of that it adds upto alot of time away
WC
9 week dets followed by around 4 months at home before doing at all again. Been doing that for 3 years now so wind your neck in.
then put the squadron excercises on top of that it adds upto alot of time away
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A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "All air loadmasters will complete tours in theatre followed by a period at home, the time periods being determined by the harmony figure. This figure is based upon manning strengths at 100 per cent.
"Consequently, while not all units will achieve harmony, the majority are very close to that if not better.
"Every effort is made to ensure that personnel take their leave whenever possible in order to rest and recuperate."
"Consequently, while not all units will achieve harmony, the majority are very close to that if not better.
"Every effort is made to ensure that personnel take their leave whenever possible in order to rest and recuperate."
Just because one signs on the dotted line knowing that one day you could be in the thick of it, it doesn't reduce the impact of seeing the results of military action.
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"It is believed that of those exposed to traumatic conditions between 5% and 80% will develop PTSD depending on the severity of the trauma and personal vulnerability"
Wikki
A BBC report said after the Falklands war that the servicemen say their stress was not diagnosed, treated or even taken seriously by the ministry.
The MOD said they had behaved "in line with contemporary best practice in our treatment of service personnel with suspected post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)".
So how much training and PTSD treatment do ALMs or other Aircrew for that matter get?
I don't suppose the new Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth (who?)really cares as he is now also responsible for Scotland and whilst Terrorists are driving Jeep Cherokees into the entrance of Glasgow airport that is more visible to the public.
Wikki
A BBC report said after the Falklands war that the servicemen say their stress was not diagnosed, treated or even taken seriously by the ministry.
The MOD said they had behaved "in line with contemporary best practice in our treatment of service personnel with suspected post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)".
So how much training and PTSD treatment do ALMs or other Aircrew for that matter get?
I don't suppose the new Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth (who?)really cares as he is now also responsible for Scotland and whilst Terrorists are driving Jeep Cherokees into the entrance of Glasgow airport that is more visible to the public.
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Harmony Guidelines?
'Harmony' is just another thing to hide behind, like Performance Indicators and such like. The simple fact is that we are throwing our SH crews back into the fray after they have had precious little time to rebalance themselves after an operational tour, a short-ish period of Post Operational Tour Leave, all the Squadron detachments, followed by all the tick chasing required to prepare for the operational tour that inevitably follows all too soon after the previous one. Harmony guidelines are only quoted by those who don't deploy and thus have their time to quote such things.
The Telegraph also goes on about the shortage of SH to provide CASEVAC, wheeling out Rick Jolly. We are engaged in 2 theatres of operatons and it would be illuminating to study the utilisation of the SH.
However, the underlying tone is clear, the crews deserve sympathy since they are the ones heading out in harm's way, coming home and having a short period of time to readjust before heading off again, Lord Moran used to talk about courage being like a bank account and the SH guys may not be well paid, but their courage accounts are seeing more activity than when Mrs Compressorstall hits Oxford Street.
The Telegraph also goes on about the shortage of SH to provide CASEVAC, wheeling out Rick Jolly. We are engaged in 2 theatres of operatons and it would be illuminating to study the utilisation of the SH.
However, the underlying tone is clear, the crews deserve sympathy since they are the ones heading out in harm's way, coming home and having a short period of time to readjust before heading off again, Lord Moran used to talk about courage being like a bank account and the SH guys may not be well paid, but their courage accounts are seeing more activity than when Mrs Compressorstall hits Oxford Street.
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Rotary Crews and PTSD
Anyone who doubts the effects that such levels of exposure to death and carnage can have on hels crews should take time out to read Bob Mason's book, Chickenhawk. And he was 'only' exposed to it for a single 12-month tour in Vietnam, not repeated dunkings into the cesspits of Iraq and Afghanistan. True, it may not be as bad as it is for the infantry, but that doesn't make it any better.
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This being a public forum I won't repeat the story told me by an ALM, when his aircraft was first on scene after several members of a British patrol took the full force of an IED .
A tough job right now, and the grown-ups should recognise it as such, and be backing them to the hilt with support both at home and when in action.
A tough job right now, and the grown-ups should recognise it as such, and be backing them to the hilt with support both at home and when in action.
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Support for the lads
I don't post here very often, but just for once I'd like to add my comments in the hope that perhaps in some small way it could help to make a bit of a difference. I was diagnosed with PTSD last year following service in the sandpit. Thankfully with some support from the docs, padre (even though I am not religous), head-shrinker (and you all have my deepest of gratitute, respect and appreciation for that) but more significantly my family and friends I'm now pretty much back to normal - well, normal for me anyway.
I had a pretty sh1t time for a while and if those people hadn't been there to help me get through things it would have been so much more of a struggle. Unless you've experienced the symptoms, or have significant expertise I think it's very difficult to imagine what these guys are going through. For those of you who may be reading this who are going through it right now, my thoughts are with you. For those of you who think you're having a bit of an issue, you must speak to someone - you're experiencing a normal reaction to an abnormal situation and the docs and padres will really help. For those of you who have mates who are going through this you can make a big difference: Please pick up the phone or knock on their door, you can make a BIG difference by doing this. Please don't expect that someone else will be doing this, show them you care and just be a mate. You can really make a significant difference by becoming part of that support network and it's not going to take up too much of your time. Reassuringly, life can actually improve with this sort of experience in the longer term, you can understand your priorities in life much more and appreciate the more important things rather than letting them slip by. Unfortunately, PTSD can take some time to manifest itself (generally at least 12 months, often 5-10 years) which means that charities such as Combat Stress will continue to be busy and they still require funds (Stn Charities Officer anyone?) to provide support to those diagnosed after retirement/discharge.
I doubt very much that a thread on this forum will change any policy but it's up to you as individuals to look out for each other. If however you happen to be an airship reading this and you'd like to know more (I'm not convinced many of you really have a true grasp of what the issues of PTSD are) feel free to PM me and I'll answer any questions you want.
Stay safe fellas.
I had a pretty sh1t time for a while and if those people hadn't been there to help me get through things it would have been so much more of a struggle. Unless you've experienced the symptoms, or have significant expertise I think it's very difficult to imagine what these guys are going through. For those of you who may be reading this who are going through it right now, my thoughts are with you. For those of you who think you're having a bit of an issue, you must speak to someone - you're experiencing a normal reaction to an abnormal situation and the docs and padres will really help. For those of you who have mates who are going through this you can make a big difference: Please pick up the phone or knock on their door, you can make a BIG difference by doing this. Please don't expect that someone else will be doing this, show them you care and just be a mate. You can really make a significant difference by becoming part of that support network and it's not going to take up too much of your time. Reassuringly, life can actually improve with this sort of experience in the longer term, you can understand your priorities in life much more and appreciate the more important things rather than letting them slip by. Unfortunately, PTSD can take some time to manifest itself (generally at least 12 months, often 5-10 years) which means that charities such as Combat Stress will continue to be busy and they still require funds (Stn Charities Officer anyone?) to provide support to those diagnosed after retirement/discharge.
I doubt very much that a thread on this forum will change any policy but it's up to you as individuals to look out for each other. If however you happen to be an airship reading this and you'd like to know more (I'm not convinced many of you really have a true grasp of what the issues of PTSD are) feel free to PM me and I'll answer any questions you want.
Stay safe fellas.
Last edited by Vidal; 1st Jul 2007 at 18:56. Reason: typo
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Vidal,
although you deserve to, you will probably never know how many people will benefit from the wisdom of your post.
Glad to hear that you are on the mend.
Much respect to all those who have/are/will do the difficult tasks overseas.
Brian
although you deserve to, you will probably never know how many people will benefit from the wisdom of your post.
Glad to hear that you are on the mend.
Much respect to all those who have/are/will do the difficult tasks overseas.
Brian
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Harmony, perhaps should be called lack of harmony.
Compressorstall is true. The actual 'Air Command' policy is a harmony of 1:4 ie 1 period away then four at home. JHC being a tad more punchy has lowered their harmoney to 1:3. I have friends at Benson and Odiham who say their crewmen have less than 1:3 (approx 1:2.5) but if you take into account squadrons on a whole it is averaging 1:3.
Surely the problem of PTSD is going to get worse not just for the loadmasters but for all brit mil???
Compressorstall is true. The actual 'Air Command' policy is a harmony of 1:4 ie 1 period away then four at home. JHC being a tad more punchy has lowered their harmoney to 1:3. I have friends at Benson and Odiham who say their crewmen have less than 1:3 (approx 1:2.5) but if you take into account squadrons on a whole it is averaging 1:3.
Surely the problem of PTSD is going to get worse not just for the loadmasters but for all brit mil???
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Harmony is all well and good, but does it really take into account the support of a prolonged campaign? Respite tours are a thing of the past, so Harmony starts to become irrelevant for those on their 5th or sixth tour of the sandpits. There is no obvious answer in the absence of lots more money and personnel, however those SH crews are on a perpetual spin cycle.
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Chaps,
The problem outlined in the press today is very real, believe me. There are more and more cases with the rotations through the Stan.
Burying of heads in the sand(forgive the pun) will not solve the problem, and the facilities offered by Brize, whilst good, are stretched to the limit. I would urge you all to be as sympathetic as possible to this as an issue, and to do anything you can to assist Cobat Stress (The Charity) to help those of all 3 services who have reached their 'full' caption.
Remember if you will, we are all different and have different capacities to cope with things that the average human being is not pychologically programmed to contend with.
The Infantry bear the brunt of this, but it would seem that the IRT crews are dealing with every incident, whereas many deal with an incident in isolation.
Whilst the Telegraphs article concentrates on Loadmasters, the medics also have a great deal to contend with, though possibly are better prepared.
Whatever your service, I can guarantee that it is my mission in life to give you the support you require, when you require it, where humanly possible. Everyone else in my position shares that vision (no I am not the Staish).
WM
The problem outlined in the press today is very real, believe me. There are more and more cases with the rotations through the Stan.
Burying of heads in the sand(forgive the pun) will not solve the problem, and the facilities offered by Brize, whilst good, are stretched to the limit. I would urge you all to be as sympathetic as possible to this as an issue, and to do anything you can to assist Cobat Stress (The Charity) to help those of all 3 services who have reached their 'full' caption.
Remember if you will, we are all different and have different capacities to cope with things that the average human being is not pychologically programmed to contend with.
The Infantry bear the brunt of this, but it would seem that the IRT crews are dealing with every incident, whereas many deal with an incident in isolation.
Whilst the Telegraphs article concentrates on Loadmasters, the medics also have a great deal to contend with, though possibly are better prepared.
Whatever your service, I can guarantee that it is my mission in life to give you the support you require, when you require it, where humanly possible. Everyone else in my position shares that vision (no I am not the Staish).
WM
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Surely the SAR crews in the UK receive training in how to recognise and deal with stress related illnesses so why can't this be expanded across to the SH and AT fleets.
Maybe the RAF could employ some Psychiatric Registered Nurses to help with this sort of situation. With the amount of injuries coming out of Afghanistan these days this is only set to get worse.
Maybe the RAF could employ some Psychiatric Registered Nurses to help with this sort of situation. With the amount of injuries coming out of Afghanistan these days this is only set to get worse.
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why on earth would the SAR boys have that training? They tend to pick up distressed and live more than shot and blown up.
We employ some of the most professional Community Psychiatric Nurses you could hope to encounter. I'd just guess at there not being quite enough of them for the task in hand.
We employ some of the most professional Community Psychiatric Nurses you could hope to encounter. I'd just guess at there not being quite enough of them for the task in hand.
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charities such as Combat Stress will continue to be busy and they still require funds
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why on earth would the SAR boys have that training?
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why on earth would the SAR boys have that training? They tend to pick up distressed and live more than shot and blown up.
That and the pressure of carrying out CPR and defibrillation on casualties (including children) where you are their only chance of survival, doesn't really leave you with any psychological baggage, as I'm sure you can imagine.There are many in the Forces subjected to some very gruesome sights. As Vidal has already said, it can be more than 5 years later that the effects of PTSD are seen, leaving a huge number of potential cases for the future.
The MoD needs to do more, not only to support those diagnosed with the condition, but to counsel those who are likely to be affected.