Why no takers for an AAC exchange?
Thread Starter
Why no takers for an AAC exchange?
Okay, clue may be in this threads title, but why aren't there many exchange officers flying for the AAC? Is it because of Operational tempo (i.e no one left to fill the gap) or do you all think an exchange with the womens auxilluary balloon corps is more appealing? I only ask as there must be a front seat slot up for grabs at Gutersloh? And whats this rumour that the door 'gurners' are to become pro aircrew and get paid as such? WG13 where are you...
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Actually there are currently a number of exchange officers with the AAC, including RN, RM, RAF, Australian AAvn, US Army, RCAF. One of those exchanges is actually at Gutersloh at the moment, so not quite sure what exactly you are getting at.
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Mate of mine about to exchange from CH47 to Apache. Not sure where this thread is going. There may not be an exchange pilot at Gutersloh (ah...happy years there!) but we are overrun with them at Odius. 1 Cloggy, 1 RM, 1 AAC and 1 RN.
As for the door gunners, about time they were treated properly!
WM
As for the door gunners, about time they were treated properly!
WM
Realy? Ah well. Perhaps I should have said 'why no RAF exchange officers at Gutersloh. As far as I am aware it's in Germany and LOA still exists...
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Wishing to broaden our horizons, we tried to set up an exchange for one of the AWACS fighter controllers, but sadly the Army refused to part with their Regimental Goat.
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Just out of interest I assume that Army pilots end up flying in RAF RN etc squadrons. If this is the case then would these pilots be Non Commissioned? if this is indeed the case then it puts holes in all the arguments that the FAA and RAF have made to justify Aircrew being commissioned.
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In the early eighties a WO1 did an exchange to the Puma fleet (Tiger Tiger).
I did his first solo when he went through the OCU, the first all SNCO Puma crew. I think he is now an civvy instructor at Benson on the simulators.
However not long after arriving at Gutersloh he was commisioned.
I did his first solo when he went through the OCU, the first all SNCO Puma crew. I think he is now an civvy instructor at Benson on the simulators.
However not long after arriving at Gutersloh he was commisioned.
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Just out of interest I assume that Army pilots end up flying in RAF RN etc squadrons. If this is the case then would these pilots be Non Commissioned? if this is indeed the case then it puts holes in all the arguments that the FAA and RAF have made to justify Aircrew being commissioned.
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There has always been a difference.
In the Army, the officers send the men out to fight
In the Navy, the officers and men all go out to fight together
In the RAF, the men send the officers out to fight
Perhaps the RAF officers havn't worked things out quite right, but the men have.
In the Army, the officers send the men out to fight
In the Navy, the officers and men all go out to fight together
In the RAF, the men send the officers out to fight
Perhaps the RAF officers havn't worked things out quite right, but the men have.
Gentleman Aviator
RAF and RN generally also operate much more independantly in the earlier part of their careers than do the Hairy Arm Corps....
...... a generalisation yes ..... and all generalisations are inaccurate!
...... a generalisation yes ..... and all generalisations are inaccurate!
"In the Army, the officers send the men out to fight
In the Navy, the officers and men all go out to fight together
In the RAF, the men send the officers out to fight"
Similar but;
In the Army the officers lead their men into war
In the Navy the officers take their men into war
In the Air Force the men pat their officers on the top of their head & tell them to fight their own f
ing war
In the Navy, the officers and men all go out to fight together
In the RAF, the men send the officers out to fight"
Similar but;
In the Army the officers lead their men into war
In the Navy the officers take their men into war
In the Air Force the men pat their officers on the top of their head & tell them to fight their own f
ing war
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In the Army the officers lead their men into war
In the Navy the officers take their men into war
In the Air Force the men pat their officers on the top of their head & tell them to fight their own fing war
In the Navy the officers take their men into war
In the Air Force the men pat their officers on the top of their head & tell them to fight their own f
ing war
The aircrew just get on with it.
And please, no thread creep to the merits of non-commissioned pilots. Even my non-commissioned stomach can't take that argument yet again!!!
WM
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Althenik,
Our present exchange to Fort Rucker is a Warrant Officer. We used to send Warrant Officers to the RAF Exchange but none ever came back. The Aussie Blackhawk Exchange is also not an officer.
Jeep
Our present exchange to Fort Rucker is a Warrant Officer. We used to send Warrant Officers to the RAF Exchange but none ever came back. The Aussie Blackhawk Exchange is also not an officer.
Jeep
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Lets not deceive ourselves on this - the reason why the Fort Rucker exchange has gone to a WO1 and why the Aussie Blackhawk exchange is the same is for the simple reason that the Corps does not have enough Captains to send on these exchange tours and fulfill the numerous Adjutant, Ops Officer and other Staff jobs.
Complete false economy that the Air Corps hierarchy has never really grasped in that these Captains and Majors all leave because they want a balanced flying career and ultimately some credability when/if they command a Squadron. The young officers in the Corps seeing these 'fun' and different tours going to the WO/SNCOs just makes the situation worse as all they see is desk job after desk job.
This is by no means a dig at the SNCOs and WOs that ultimately become HQ DAAvn's flexible manpower (which other threads have highlighted he can do pretty much what he likes with their Terms and Conditions) but what I continue to be amazed at when I see good quality AAC officers transfer to the other Services or go abroad is that why doesn't DAAvn actually retain these Captains and Majors by giving them a flying career (we are not talking PAS but behind a desk - we are talking in cockpit on Squadrons). Just think of all those gapped positions on a Squadron (that we supposedly do not have) that could be filled, just think of the increase in experience levels to have third, fourth and fifth tourists. Just think of the balance that an experienced SNCO/WO/LE and DE Regiment would have compared to the current situation where young officers are synomonous with the term 'newbie' or 'fresh out the box'.
The crux of this thread is that the Corps has always had exchange appointments, AH (3 years isn't really long enough)and the drawdown of Germany, NI and 9 Regt have meant that exchange locations have been up in the air.
Complete false economy that the Air Corps hierarchy has never really grasped in that these Captains and Majors all leave because they want a balanced flying career and ultimately some credability when/if they command a Squadron. The young officers in the Corps seeing these 'fun' and different tours going to the WO/SNCOs just makes the situation worse as all they see is desk job after desk job.
This is by no means a dig at the SNCOs and WOs that ultimately become HQ DAAvn's flexible manpower (which other threads have highlighted he can do pretty much what he likes with their Terms and Conditions) but what I continue to be amazed at when I see good quality AAC officers transfer to the other Services or go abroad is that why doesn't DAAvn actually retain these Captains and Majors by giving them a flying career (we are not talking PAS but behind a desk - we are talking in cockpit on Squadrons). Just think of all those gapped positions on a Squadron (that we supposedly do not have) that could be filled, just think of the increase in experience levels to have third, fourth and fifth tourists. Just think of the balance that an experienced SNCO/WO/LE and DE Regiment would have compared to the current situation where young officers are synomonous with the term 'newbie' or 'fresh out the box'.
The crux of this thread is that the Corps has always had exchange appointments, AH (3 years isn't really long enough)and the drawdown of Germany, NI and 9 Regt have meant that exchange locations have been up in the air.