A-10s - Yes please
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Saw a promotion of the WartHog in the earlier days - the sound and effect of that gattling gun was VERY impressive - 20mm of spent uranium at 6000 rpm will definitely make your eyes water if your sitting in a tank
I was told a 5 second burst takes 30 kts off the TAS
Could be handy during a flapless landing
I was told a 5 second burst takes 30 kts off the TAS
Could be handy during a flapless landing
(a bear of little brain)
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Remember a few years ago, living in deepest Suffolk (just south of BSE) in the only house for 1/2 mile in any direction. I was on the first floor, heard a noise, looked out of the window and saw a pair of A10s coming across the field straight at me!
They climbed, flew over over the house, then dropped down to low-level again across the next field.
They climbed, flew over over the house, then dropped down to low-level again across the next field.
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Aden 25 - Response
Double Zero and others, some info on the Aden 25, which I had a little to do with before it got canned.
The idea was it would fire bursts a lot faster than the untrendy 30mm.
The HUD had a burst counter / limiter which I thought a good idea.
Snag was the metallurgy wasn't up to the ( flawed ) theory, so it fired it's own innards along with the shell - they didn't develop the gatling gun all those years ago for no reason - barrel cooling .
Dunsfold armoury tried valiantly but the thing was a lemon.
I's gently disagree that the Aden 25 was 'flawed' or a 'lemon'.
The gun was developed in the late 80s/early 90s by RO to use the then new 25mm NATO round (used by the Bradley and the GAU-12), to give much greater hitting power at longer range. It was a redesign of the Aden 30mm, which was in turn a straight clone of a Mauser 30mm cannon developed at the end of WW2. It turned into a very big redesign, using percussion firing (Aden 30 is electrical) and going at about 1850 rounds per min. Muzzle velocity about twice that of the Aden 30, so significant issues with power and recoil. RO basically couldn't make it work, so it was handed on to a small company (now defunct) based in Ascot, who did a great job of getting it right. On test, it worked a dream, and it remains the world's fastest firing percussion fire cannon. Also very low mechanical wear, and easy servicing, plus low cost rounds. All on schedule and within budget.
However.. the bad news was that the gun development was separate from the pod, and this included the ammo feeds. This led to severe problems with gun jams, but these were, IMHO, fixable. There were also issues with spent links hitting the aircraft, but this was a long known design feature. BAE tried adding great big bulges to catch them, but it always looked like a dodgy solution. By contrast, GD developed the GAU-12 gun and pod together, and this is certainly the right way to go. (They developed a great linkless feed, which avoids the spent link issue).
Metallurgy - there were certainly problems with barrel wear, just like any high rate of fire gun. The answer was the burst limiter, just like the French, US and Soviets have on comparable guns. At normal burst patterns, they were getting decent barrel life.
Gatling guns certainly do have less problems with barrel wear, but due to low rate of fire per barrel, not barrel cooling per se. Gatlings are great, as long as you can stand the weight, and power consumption. The other big advantage of revolver cannon like the Aden is that you get max rate from the first round of the burst - Gatlings spend quite a few rounds getting up to speed. Drives probability of hit way up on short bursts.
Before it was cancelled, I heard a senior Czech gun designer (who did the 30mm for the Flanker) say that the Aden 25 was 'an excellent and revolutionary gun'. Some people never got any credit for that.
In the end, the Aden 25 was cancelled by Air Staffs who were quite clear that guns were no longer required 'in any foreseeable circumstances'. Right.
Bottom line - a fine UK company did a great job in developing a very decent bit of kit, and we failed to get it properly integrated onto the platform. But a 'flawed lemon'? No.
Engines
The idea was it would fire bursts a lot faster than the untrendy 30mm.
The HUD had a burst counter / limiter which I thought a good idea.
Snag was the metallurgy wasn't up to the ( flawed ) theory, so it fired it's own innards along with the shell - they didn't develop the gatling gun all those years ago for no reason - barrel cooling .
Dunsfold armoury tried valiantly but the thing was a lemon.
I's gently disagree that the Aden 25 was 'flawed' or a 'lemon'.
The gun was developed in the late 80s/early 90s by RO to use the then new 25mm NATO round (used by the Bradley and the GAU-12), to give much greater hitting power at longer range. It was a redesign of the Aden 30mm, which was in turn a straight clone of a Mauser 30mm cannon developed at the end of WW2. It turned into a very big redesign, using percussion firing (Aden 30 is electrical) and going at about 1850 rounds per min. Muzzle velocity about twice that of the Aden 30, so significant issues with power and recoil. RO basically couldn't make it work, so it was handed on to a small company (now defunct) based in Ascot, who did a great job of getting it right. On test, it worked a dream, and it remains the world's fastest firing percussion fire cannon. Also very low mechanical wear, and easy servicing, plus low cost rounds. All on schedule and within budget.
However.. the bad news was that the gun development was separate from the pod, and this included the ammo feeds. This led to severe problems with gun jams, but these were, IMHO, fixable. There were also issues with spent links hitting the aircraft, but this was a long known design feature. BAE tried adding great big bulges to catch them, but it always looked like a dodgy solution. By contrast, GD developed the GAU-12 gun and pod together, and this is certainly the right way to go. (They developed a great linkless feed, which avoids the spent link issue).
Metallurgy - there were certainly problems with barrel wear, just like any high rate of fire gun. The answer was the burst limiter, just like the French, US and Soviets have on comparable guns. At normal burst patterns, they were getting decent barrel life.
Gatling guns certainly do have less problems with barrel wear, but due to low rate of fire per barrel, not barrel cooling per se. Gatlings are great, as long as you can stand the weight, and power consumption. The other big advantage of revolver cannon like the Aden is that you get max rate from the first round of the burst - Gatlings spend quite a few rounds getting up to speed. Drives probability of hit way up on short bursts.
Before it was cancelled, I heard a senior Czech gun designer (who did the 30mm for the Flanker) say that the Aden 25 was 'an excellent and revolutionary gun'. Some people never got any credit for that.
In the end, the Aden 25 was cancelled by Air Staffs who were quite clear that guns were no longer required 'in any foreseeable circumstances'. Right.
Bottom line - a fine UK company did a great job in developing a very decent bit of kit, and we failed to get it properly integrated onto the platform. But a 'flawed lemon'? No.
Engines
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A10 Warthog
I was under the impression that all USAF A10 Warthogs left the UK upon the closure of the Bentwaters/Woodbridge bases a few years back. Today I saw 3 A10s over Cambridgeshire heading in the Mildenhall/Lakenheath direction. Are A10s based in the UK again, can anyone tell me?
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Like most NATO forces our American brothers like to deploy out of area once and a while to get some valuable training from unfamiliar surroundings. The nearest European Hogs I'm aware of are based at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany but they could be over from the States.
The UK is pretty well sorted with low level airspace and available bombing ranges so it makes sence for them to be here.
I wish I'd known they were deployed earlier though.....we could have got some valuable JPR trg scheduled?
SA
The mighty Hog is expected to make an appearance at the Waddo airshow this weekend as well.
It's all here:
http://www.lakenheath.af.mil/news/st...p?id=123056556
The UK is pretty well sorted with low level airspace and available bombing ranges so it makes sence for them to be here.
I wish I'd known they were deployed earlier though.....we could have got some valuable JPR trg scheduled?
SA
The mighty Hog is expected to make an appearance at the Waddo airshow this weekend as well.
It's all here:
http://www.lakenheath.af.mil/news/st...p?id=123056556
Last edited by Sentry Agitator; 27th Jun 2007 at 20:20. Reason: More info
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Did I hear there were one or two over at the same Air Show as the 'Merlin dropped a door' thread ? ..... 
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281424
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281424
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The A-10s did indeed withdraw from the UK many years ago. In it's heyday the 81stTFW/FW had six squadrons of the beast co-located at Bentwaters and Woodbridge (with four forward operating locations in Germany).
Today one unit remains, namely the 81stFS at Spangdahlem. The runway there is currently being relaid so the 81st will operate from Lakenheath for a few weeks. No doubt the East Coast ranges are in for a bit of a pasting.
Today one unit remains, namely the 81stFS at Spangdahlem. The runway there is currently being relaid so the 81st will operate from Lakenheath for a few weeks. No doubt the East Coast ranges are in for a bit of a pasting.
Dunno about five second bursts. The A-10 drivers who used to visit would claim that they were only to fire two sec burst or the barrel would expand with the heat and accuracy would be similar to a Stirling SMG!! They did lose a good few knots even in a two second burst.
Saw a pair playing on STANTA as I drove home the other night.
As "Uncle Roger" used to say "Ahhh, the sweet nostalgia".
Doc C
Saw a pair playing on STANTA as I drove home the other night.
As "Uncle Roger" used to say "Ahhh, the sweet nostalgia".
Doc C
I can recall a pair coming low level up the Thames past London City one weekday afternoon in the late 1980s. Half an hour later they went back down again. It seemed a most unlikely sortie.
