Three predators!!!!
RTFQ
Massed, massed, massed, massed bomber threat.
If you bothered to read my first post on this thread I said I thought Typhoon was about to do it's first Q stint. The implication being I am aware of Q, and the reason for it, without going to see my non existant Int officer - but I guess I need to use words of one sylable.
I believe we currently have 1.5 Sqns of Typhoon, and I said it would take at least 6 months to fold the F3 fleet if we started tomorrow, allowing for growth in Typhoon assets.
If 1.5 Sqns of Typhoons can't cover the Q commitment for the occassional Russian intrusion, and the rogue airliner threat, (vs the current 5 AD Sqns for the entire WWIII scenario I believe?) there is something seriously wrong. It might be a bit of a strain for a while, but considering what some fleets are going through.....
I know the first Typhoon Sqn is working up in the AG role, but that is only so CAS can get some good publicility for his new toy......
I have repeatedly acknowledged that there is a need for AD in the UK.
By the way...... if you bothered to read my first post I also said I was playing Devils Advocate (thinking outside the box) .....
Words like "breath" "waste" "bother" "why" spring to mind....
Massed, massed, massed, massed bomber threat.
If you bothered to read my first post on this thread I said I thought Typhoon was about to do it's first Q stint. The implication being I am aware of Q, and the reason for it, without going to see my non existant Int officer - but I guess I need to use words of one sylable.
I believe we currently have 1.5 Sqns of Typhoon, and I said it would take at least 6 months to fold the F3 fleet if we started tomorrow, allowing for growth in Typhoon assets.
If 1.5 Sqns of Typhoons can't cover the Q commitment for the occassional Russian intrusion, and the rogue airliner threat, (vs the current 5 AD Sqns for the entire WWIII scenario I believe?) there is something seriously wrong. It might be a bit of a strain for a while, but considering what some fleets are going through.....
I know the first Typhoon Sqn is working up in the AG role, but that is only so CAS can get some good publicility for his new toy......
I have repeatedly acknowledged that there is a need for AD in the UK.
By the way...... if you bothered to read my first post I also said I was playing Devils Advocate (thinking outside the box) .....
Words like "breath" "waste" "bother" "why" spring to mind....
Biggus
Crikey mate, calm down!
Don't forget that there is also Q up North and down South plus the Falkland Islands. Your 1.5 Sqns won't go far... Also CAS wants Typhoon to go Afghanistan soonest - with a ground attack capability. The F3 is apparently going to be doing some of the test firing for BVRAAM "Meteor" because Typhoon is being advanced for air-to-ground trials at a faster pace.
It might be the RAF's new wonderjet but it can't be everywhere at once!
Believe me, the old landshark is going to the great scrapyard in the sky sooner or later (not before time, as well - she was only supposed to be a 15year stop-gap for EFA); but it would be a bit silly to get rid of her before the Eurofrightener can take over. We would look a right bunch of tw@ts getting caught with our pants down having already got rid of the SHAR recently.
IGAT
Yes, mate, I was little optamistic 
! They'd probably tell you that you don't have right clearances to know the info anyway - clucking anchors 
!
LJ
Crikey mate, calm down!
Don't forget that there is also Q up North and down South plus the Falkland Islands. Your 1.5 Sqns won't go far... Also CAS wants Typhoon to go Afghanistan soonest - with a ground attack capability. The F3 is apparently going to be doing some of the test firing for BVRAAM "Meteor" because Typhoon is being advanced for air-to-ground trials at a faster pace.
It might be the RAF's new wonderjet but it can't be everywhere at once!
Believe me, the old landshark is going to the great scrapyard in the sky sooner or later (not before time, as well - she was only supposed to be a 15year stop-gap for EFA); but it would be a bit silly to get rid of her before the Eurofrightener can take over. We would look a right bunch of tw@ts getting caught with our pants down having already got rid of the SHAR recently.
IGAT
You're best off asking the cleaning lady!!!
! They'd probably tell you that you don't have right clearances to know the info anyway - clucking anchors !LJ
PS. Biggus do you really think that 3 front-line (soon to be 2) Tornado F3 Sqns are going to save the UK from your
???
Sorry, outside of the 3 second rule, but it just occured to me.
LJ
Massed, massed, massed, massed bomber threat
Sorry, outside of the 3 second rule, but it just occured to me.
LJ
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This is a first.
Does anyone know what they are talking about - or is this just another load of b------s?
Are there any true air defenders on this thread?
Is there anyone who knows what the f--- they are talking about when it comes to UASs or UCASs? If so, I'll f--- off, and won't bore you again. if not, you'll be hearing from me!
Does anyone know what they are talking about - or is this just another load of b------s?
Are there any true air defenders on this thread?
Is there anyone who knows what the f--- they are talking about when it comes to UASs or UCASs? If so, I'll f--- off, and won't bore you again. if not, you'll be hearing from me!
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Back on theme . . . .
Back to the thread - Phoney Tony, You are spot on, there is no support for the aircraft outside of what we can scrounge/borrow off of the Americans. Just as well they're not too busy, otherwise we wouldn't be able to get access to the kit when we needed it . . . . oh, no, wait a minute. . . . 
Still, never mind, at least we've got another squadron crest back onto the wall of hot Air Command . . . .
Still, never mind, at least we've got another squadron crest back onto the wall of hot Air Command . . . .
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I'd be very surprised if we didn't end up buying more Reapers (apparently the name is now official). Notwithstanding the lack of organic 'back room' support in the deal, I can envisage the MQ-9 making a significant contribution to the UK slice of current ops (and I'm not just saying that 'cos I may be going out there to fly them in the near future......)
The sensors will feed into the overall picture in the same way any other 'sensor' does nowadays - the NEC concept and the nature of joint ops means we can 'do our bit' without our own private CAOC to feed the picture. Bear in mind that Reaper carries about 1/3 of a Harrier weapon load, but has over 10 times the endurance...I think we'll find them SO useful we'll be falling over ourselves in 2-3 yrs time to aquire a whole bunch of them - although we will most definitely have to retain some current assets (or aquire replacements) for certain types of tasking.
Incidentally, they also have a (theoretical) air-air capability....the end for ALL fast jets?
Discuss. (note the !)
The sensors will feed into the overall picture in the same way any other 'sensor' does nowadays - the NEC concept and the nature of joint ops means we can 'do our bit' without our own private CAOC to feed the picture. Bear in mind that Reaper carries about 1/3 of a Harrier weapon load, but has over 10 times the endurance...I think we'll find them SO useful we'll be falling over ourselves in 2-3 yrs time to aquire a whole bunch of them - although we will most definitely have to retain some current assets (or aquire replacements) for certain types of tasking.
Incidentally, they also have a (theoretical) air-air capability....the end for ALL fast jets?
Discuss. (note the !)
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There is quite a lot of difference regarding the two types of Predator (Predator A and Predator B).
The Predator A has been lost in theatre mainly due to i should think to it's low cruise speed and low-medium level altitude, possibly the pilots (hick) maybe flying much lower than needed also....
Predator B (Reaper) seems to enjoy a much higher cruising speed and an altitude comparible to a biz jet!
Pred A Cruise Speed - 70kts +
Pred B Cruise Speed - 220kts +
Pred A Ceiling Altitude - 25,000ft
Pred B Ceiling Altitude - 50,000ft
The Predator A has been lost in theatre mainly due to i should think to it's low cruise speed and low-medium level altitude, possibly the pilots (hick) maybe flying much lower than needed also....
Predator B (Reaper) seems to enjoy a much higher cruising speed and an altitude comparible to a biz jet!
Pred A Cruise Speed - 70kts +
Pred B Cruise Speed - 220kts +
Pred A Ceiling Altitude - 25,000ft
Pred B Ceiling Altitude - 50,000ft
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Actually, many of the Pred A air vehicle losses have been due to accidents in the approach to land phase (it's a pig near the ground, especially in gusty conditions), engine-related incidents (there's no fire detection/warning system, for example), poor weather conditions i.e. heavy precip/snow/icing, CBs and a few were ascribed to surface-to-air fire during the Op SW days.
Interestingly, human factors and the HMI have been listed as causal and/or contributary factors in many of the accidents.
It would be extremely rare to find a Pred in this flight condition!
Cheers
SBG
Interestingly, human factors and the HMI have been listed as causal and/or contributary factors in many of the accidents.
possibly the pilots (hick) maybe flying much lower than needed also....
Cheers
SBG
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Inquisitor - the bid for additional 'Reapers' (we will rue the day that became the name!) is going through now, but they take time to build and we're in the queue.
You're absolutely correct in the idea of passing all information into a central hub to provide information to whoever needs it, but it has nothing to do with a CAOC. These are the imagery analysts required to interpret the various types of data coming off the system (FMV/EO/IR/SAR & MTI) that we're in very short supply off. Likewise there is no provision to purchase the equipment on which to do the analysis. Once again we've bought the shiney toy but forgotten the need to support it
Also, in order to have NEC we need a network - not a series of barely linked stove pipes.
You're absolutely correct in the idea of passing all information into a central hub to provide information to whoever needs it, but it has nothing to do with a CAOC. These are the imagery analysts required to interpret the various types of data coming off the system (FMV/EO/IR/SAR & MTI) that we're in very short supply off. Likewise there is no provision to purchase the equipment on which to do the analysis. Once again we've bought the shiney toy but forgotten the need to support it
Also, in order to have NEC we need a network - not a series of barely linked stove pipes.
Last edited by In Tor Wot; 12th Jun 2007 at 06:35.
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Wrathmonk
I think we are essentially arguing the same point from different ends. I understand that there is only a limited pot of cash to pay for everything, but the frustration of half measures is ever growing. You talk about long term ideas and poss solutions, I agree that if that was done well it would be worth a short term capability deficit. Whilst I am aware of a capability deficit I don't know how long/short that term will be or if there are solutions in place to make it worthwhile.
I assume your comment about reality at MOD was a gag, if not, and with all due respect you can poke it up your hoop. I would claim that over a year in Telic seeing lives lost as a direct result of capability deficit in delayed UORs is reality enough.
Regards
CB
I assume your comment about reality at MOD was a gag, if not, and with all due respect you can poke it up your hoop. I would claim that over a year in Telic seeing lives lost as a direct result of capability deficit in delayed UORs is reality enough.
Regards
CB
