New Mx make JSF Obsolete?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
New Mx make JSF Obsolete?
There is already a lot of material, from the supporters of the JSF, stating it's range/payload/performance is only the same class as that of the F-16. The point being made that it is it's stealth characteristics which make it so survivable.
I therefore found the following, embedded in this article, of great interest. maybe they'd best only fly it operationally on cloudy nights when no one with a NG IRST and US/Russian/French long range IR Mx is about. Or it might be cheaper just to upgrade your current F-15/F-16/F-18 with new datalink/targeting pods and don't bother with JSF at all...
NCADE - An ABM AMRAAM?
.........NCADE is an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that adds the infrared seeker from Raytheon's AIM-9X air-to-air missile, and also adds a second-stage rocket motor from Aerojet [GY]. The rocket motor will use an advanced hydroxylammonium nitrate monopropellant thruster; its improved performance and high-density packaging should allow lighter, higher-velocity missiles. Hydroxylammonium nitrate is also less toxic and easier to handle than other propellants, and could eventually enable safe shipboard operation. Despite the addition of the second-stage propulsion, the NCADE missile is still the same size as an AMRAAM.......
True to its name, NCADE is most valuable when the missile and/or its launching platform can receive targeting data from a wide variety of sources: Naval vessels with Cooperative Engagement Capability. Large X-band ABM radars. Land-based air & missile defense systems. Aerial platforms like E-8 JSTARs aircraft or NATO's forthcoming AGS. JLENS aerostats, or powered HAA airships with ISIS radars. Etc.......
As DID's AMRAAM FOCUS Article notes, Russian (AA-10) and French (MBDA's MICA) missile manufacturers are already pairing medium-range, datalinked missiles with high-performance infared seekers as an option instead of conventional radar seekers. This allows for passive infared targeting using long-range IRST sensors that give off no tell-tale emissions, and do not trigger their targets' radar warning receivers as the launched missile homes in.
Even "stealth" aircraft can be tracked this way - the F-35 Lightning II, for instance, has very little infrared stealth owing to an 40,000 pound thrust, single-engine design that lacks the shielding/dispersal measures of the F-22A Raptor, B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, et. al. Or see the above graphic of a B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, lifted from EADS Eurofighter's presentation to the Norwegian government as they touted their own aircraft's advanced IRST cueing sensor.
An AMRAAM with highly advanced infared tracking, exceptional speed, and possibly longer range would have a number of potential roles. It would be an excellent "AWACS killer" weapon, for instance, that might begin to parry or even counter Russian developments in this area. It could also be employed against stealthy cruise missiles by homing in on their jet engine exhaust, with cueing from advanced infared scanners mounted on high-altitude aerostats or airships.
Finally, it could simply become an unpredictable factor in the US aerial arsenal, extending the combat lifespan and functionality of US "teen series" fighters in particular by offering them a medium range, non-emitting weapon option that could be used in conjunction with upgraded sensor fits or improved targeting pods......
I therefore found the following, embedded in this article, of great interest. maybe they'd best only fly it operationally on cloudy nights when no one with a NG IRST and US/Russian/French long range IR Mx is about. Or it might be cheaper just to upgrade your current F-15/F-16/F-18 with new datalink/targeting pods and don't bother with JSF at all...
NCADE - An ABM AMRAAM?
.........NCADE is an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that adds the infrared seeker from Raytheon's AIM-9X air-to-air missile, and also adds a second-stage rocket motor from Aerojet [GY]. The rocket motor will use an advanced hydroxylammonium nitrate monopropellant thruster; its improved performance and high-density packaging should allow lighter, higher-velocity missiles. Hydroxylammonium nitrate is also less toxic and easier to handle than other propellants, and could eventually enable safe shipboard operation. Despite the addition of the second-stage propulsion, the NCADE missile is still the same size as an AMRAAM.......
True to its name, NCADE is most valuable when the missile and/or its launching platform can receive targeting data from a wide variety of sources: Naval vessels with Cooperative Engagement Capability. Large X-band ABM radars. Land-based air & missile defense systems. Aerial platforms like E-8 JSTARs aircraft or NATO's forthcoming AGS. JLENS aerostats, or powered HAA airships with ISIS radars. Etc.......
As DID's AMRAAM FOCUS Article notes, Russian (AA-10) and French (MBDA's MICA) missile manufacturers are already pairing medium-range, datalinked missiles with high-performance infared seekers as an option instead of conventional radar seekers. This allows for passive infared targeting using long-range IRST sensors that give off no tell-tale emissions, and do not trigger their targets' radar warning receivers as the launched missile homes in.
Even "stealth" aircraft can be tracked this way - the F-35 Lightning II, for instance, has very little infrared stealth owing to an 40,000 pound thrust, single-engine design that lacks the shielding/dispersal measures of the F-22A Raptor, B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, et. al. Or see the above graphic of a B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, lifted from EADS Eurofighter's presentation to the Norwegian government as they touted their own aircraft's advanced IRST cueing sensor.
An AMRAAM with highly advanced infared tracking, exceptional speed, and possibly longer range would have a number of potential roles. It would be an excellent "AWACS killer" weapon, for instance, that might begin to parry or even counter Russian developments in this area. It could also be employed against stealthy cruise missiles by homing in on their jet engine exhaust, with cueing from advanced infared scanners mounted on high-altitude aerostats or airships.
Finally, it could simply become an unpredictable factor in the US aerial arsenal, extending the combat lifespan and functionality of US "teen series" fighters in particular by offering them a medium range, non-emitting weapon option that could be used in conjunction with upgraded sensor fits or improved targeting pods......
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
And, yes, I know it's an OTT and provocative thread title... 
But off-board guidance updated, passive homing Mx, with a good multi-spectral sensor, will make passive RHWR pretty useless, and if you use active and radiate, your stealth goes out the window.
Maybe you just wait for your wingman to go bang....
But off-board guidance updated, passive homing Mx, with a good multi-spectral sensor, will make passive RHWR pretty useless, and if you use active and radiate, your stealth goes out the window.
Maybe you just wait for your wingman to go bang....
It's really simple.
You just make sure that you're in a mixed coalition formation of JSFs, and the non-US aircraft will get shot first.
That's why allies are indispensable.
You just make sure that you're in a mixed coalition formation of JSFs, and the non-US aircraft will get shot first.
That's why allies are indispensable.
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the F-35 Lightning II, for instance, has very little infrared stealth owing to an 40,000 pound thrust, single-engine design that lacks the shielding/dispersal measures of the F-22A
Oh so it IS a Harrier then..........................................
Oh so it IS a Harrier then..........................................
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Or it might be cheaper just to upgrade your current F-15/F-16/F-18 with new datalink/targeting pods and don't bother with JSF at all...
Taxi for 1...
