Should I take the cash or go?
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Should I take the cash or go?
38 Option coming up in just over a year. I have really enjoyed my time so far and think that I am in with a reasonable chance of promotion in the next couple of years. Have always flown and am now facing the prospect of a very different life doing ground tours etc. Love the military and think that the airline option would probably be fairly boring but am doing my ATPLs to give me some options (exams soon!!). Would you take the bonus on offer with the prospect of an improved pension at 44/55 and stay in? What are those ground tours really like?
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If you are <40, you have a fighting chance of a second career. If you leave after 40 your chances diminish. There are jobs out there - and some really good ones as a 40+ ex mil guy, BUT the chances are less and less as you age.
I would run if you have an ATPL and a Mil pension.
Just my opinion....
I would run if you have an ATPL and a Mil pension.
Just my opinion....
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dogstar2,
Firstly, if you do plan to go, you need to inform ACOS Manning, in writing, more than 12 months before your option point. Otherwise, you are staying matey, unlucky.
You say that you expect promotion in the next couple of years, thus I am guessing that you a Flt Lt, if so you'll have to 'sign-on' as PAS, and thus will not get a 44 option. If you are already a Sqn Ldr, then the whopping Wg Cdr pension may well be worth the extra few years, and you will get a 44 option (note point 1 for this too).
Also, your FRI will be £30k (after tax), yet you will lose about a bit more than that in lost pension over the 5 years that you have to commit too. Use the Pensions Calc to find your exact figures.
Ex_F111 makes good points about diminishing returns, however, if you are a QFI, that you are a better prospect to the airline at any age, and therefore it may be worth a slightly bigger pension, about an extra £3k/yr for the 44 option.
As for ground tours, with very few exceptions, IMHO they are either b100dy hard work, or deathly boring. Moreover, you will need to keep getting promoted to keep flying, and the it is likely to be 1 tour in 3. In short, if you love flying, and want to keep doing it, GO, if you are itching to widen your experience and willing to sell your soul STAY.
Lastly, if you are still enjoying the military, you are a rarity, and could very well go a long way due to the severe lack of competition. Even 'rising-stars' at Staff College are PVRing!
I'm in a similar situation, and I'm gone, gone, gone.
Hope that helps.
(>|<)
Firstly, if you do plan to go, you need to inform ACOS Manning, in writing, more than 12 months before your option point. Otherwise, you are staying matey, unlucky.
You say that you expect promotion in the next couple of years, thus I am guessing that you a Flt Lt, if so you'll have to 'sign-on' as PAS, and thus will not get a 44 option. If you are already a Sqn Ldr, then the whopping Wg Cdr pension may well be worth the extra few years, and you will get a 44 option (note point 1 for this too).
Also, your FRI will be £30k (after tax), yet you will lose about a bit more than that in lost pension over the 5 years that you have to commit too. Use the Pensions Calc to find your exact figures.
Ex_F111 makes good points about diminishing returns, however, if you are a QFI, that you are a better prospect to the airline at any age, and therefore it may be worth a slightly bigger pension, about an extra £3k/yr for the 44 option.
As for ground tours, with very few exceptions, IMHO they are either b100dy hard work, or deathly boring. Moreover, you will need to keep getting promoted to keep flying, and the it is likely to be 1 tour in 3. In short, if you love flying, and want to keep doing it, GO, if you are itching to widen your experience and willing to sell your soul STAY.
Lastly, if you are still enjoying the military, you are a rarity, and could very well go a long way due to the severe lack of competition. Even 'rising-stars' at Staff College are PVRing!
I'm in a similar situation, and I'm gone, gone, gone.
Hope that helps.
(>|<)
Last edited by MadAxeMan; 15th May 2007 at 02:47. Reason: Adding ground tour info
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You must have a fair idea where ground tours associated with your experience are. Given your age one could surmise you are not on FJs but on a type with more mature aircrew.
What beckons? A staff tour at a shiney new HQ. Would you buy a house at High Wycombe? Or would you hope against hope for a rare flt cdr slot after a ground tour?
How old are the flt cdrs now? If they are younger than you would be at the end of a staff tour . . .
OTOH, if you took the plunge, and your missus was happy with a move to HW, or you are in daily commuting distance, you might consider a career change of direction - go for two ground tours at HW then press for a wg cdr post there. The unpopular route can be the easy one to wg cdr.
What beckons? A staff tour at a shiney new HQ. Would you buy a house at High Wycombe? Or would you hope against hope for a rare flt cdr slot after a ground tour?
How old are the flt cdrs now? If they are younger than you would be at the end of a staff tour . . .
OTOH, if you took the plunge, and your missus was happy with a move to HW, or you are in daily commuting distance, you might consider a career change of direction - go for two ground tours at HW then press for a wg cdr post there. The unpopular route can be the easy one to wg cdr.
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I do not understand why I would lose pension over the 5 years?
Also currently a Sqn Ldr looking at the 100k incentive. I guess the question really is are there some financial profit/loss figures that people have worked through in the argument for staying or leaving?
Also currently a Sqn Ldr looking at the 100k incentive. I guess the question really is are there some financial profit/loss figures that people have worked through in the argument for staying or leaving?
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DS2,
I am in a similar situation, but due to amortisation, my exit date is mid 09 and my IPP is the end of the year. I have to make the decision to accept or reject the offer with 18 months to do of my (hopefully) promotion tour. I would have liked to be in the position where I made the FRI decision at the end of this tour but beggars can't be choosers.
On the whole I too am enjoying my time in the military, but I plan to leave before I get bitter - people are all too often hanging on too long then becoming bitter and twisted. My decision will probably be to take the money and stay at least untill 44 - the increased pension makes it more attractive. I am planning to set up my own business when I leave so the argument for leaving before 40 to get in the job market is not really a player for me.
Financially I think if you consider you are getting 10,000 per year from the FRI and an enhanced pension. If you get a job with the airlines, getting on the ladder earlier rather than later will enhance your salary, but from what I see you can usually expect to take a salary cut when you jump ship. And don't forget to add the other benefits, such as cheap housing, free dental, free gym etc.
Should I decide I cannot stay the additional 5 years it is possible to jump ship and pay back the full amount - I would have to get a bridging loan unless I found some spare cash untill I could get the tax rebate. But it is always an option.
Bottom line is that I am making the decisions on my quality of life at the time. Financially you will potentially make more money in civvy street, if you start early in particular, but it is also more expensive to live as a result of the Service benefits.
As to the ground tours, I have had 2, one as a Sqn Ldr. It is hit and miss as to what you get quite often, but it can be what you make of it. It certainly gives you a different perspective on the military. If you want to stay flying, however, your only real option is PAS. You would otherwise likely only have 2 flying tours left - one as a Sqn Cdr, one as a Stn Cdr - and those are getting fewer and fewer.
I couldn't work out the pension comment either.
Just my perspective but HTH.
GB2
I am in a similar situation, but due to amortisation, my exit date is mid 09 and my IPP is the end of the year. I have to make the decision to accept or reject the offer with 18 months to do of my (hopefully) promotion tour. I would have liked to be in the position where I made the FRI decision at the end of this tour but beggars can't be choosers.
On the whole I too am enjoying my time in the military, but I plan to leave before I get bitter - people are all too often hanging on too long then becoming bitter and twisted. My decision will probably be to take the money and stay at least untill 44 - the increased pension makes it more attractive. I am planning to set up my own business when I leave so the argument for leaving before 40 to get in the job market is not really a player for me.
Financially I think if you consider you are getting 10,000 per year from the FRI and an enhanced pension. If you get a job with the airlines, getting on the ladder earlier rather than later will enhance your salary, but from what I see you can usually expect to take a salary cut when you jump ship. And don't forget to add the other benefits, such as cheap housing, free dental, free gym etc.
Should I decide I cannot stay the additional 5 years it is possible to jump ship and pay back the full amount - I would have to get a bridging loan unless I found some spare cash untill I could get the tax rebate. But it is always an option.
Bottom line is that I am making the decisions on my quality of life at the time. Financially you will potentially make more money in civvy street, if you start early in particular, but it is also more expensive to live as a result of the Service benefits.
As to the ground tours, I have had 2, one as a Sqn Ldr. It is hit and miss as to what you get quite often, but it can be what you make of it. It certainly gives you a different perspective on the military. If you want to stay flying, however, your only real option is PAS. You would otherwise likely only have 2 flying tours left - one as a Sqn Cdr, one as a Stn Cdr - and those are getting fewer and fewer.
I couldn't work out the pension comment either.
Just my perspective but HTH.
GB2
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Ah, as a sqn ldr would you ultimately get a sqn? If nothen there are exciting jobs such as media comms, environmental support, or an IPT, SO1 slots, and then a fairly good prospect of transfer to an MSF C2 or C1 slot.
All could be ideal if you are looking for lower stress, family stability and lower pay offset by your pension.
OTOH, if you read the BA Recruiting thread you get all of the above except for higher pay and you fly.
All could be ideal if you are looking for lower stress, family stability and lower pay offset by your pension.
OTOH, if you read the BA Recruiting thread you get all of the above except for higher pay and you fly.
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DS2, et al.
Ahh, all a bit clearer now, with the extra info. A very similar situation to me. Apart from the still enjoying the military bit that is.
Take a look at my previous calculations on the benefit of the FRI2. Makes for interesting reading.
(>|<)
Ahh, all a bit clearer now, with the extra info. A very similar situation to me. Apart from the still enjoying the military bit that is.
Take a look at my previous calculations on the benefit of the FRI2. Makes for interesting reading.
(>|<)
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Amazing to think that someone would need to come onto a Aviation forum and ask what he should do next in his life. Only you can decide. So decide!!!!!
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I agree with samuraimatt.
If you have to ask for reasons to stay/go on this forum, then you haven't given it enough thought.
No two persons circumstances are the same. Only you can decide what's right for you and your family.
If you have to ask for reasons to stay/go on this forum, then you haven't given it enough thought.
No two persons circumstances are the same. Only you can decide what's right for you and your family.
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The original posting is not asking others to make my decision for me - purely a question posed out of interest to see what others are thinking. You never know - you may have missed a trick!!
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Would you take the bonus on offer with the prospect of an improved pension at 44/55 and stay in?
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Samuraimatt,
Do you have an opinion and do you want to enter into a discussion - the very reason for participating in a forum? Your position would be very much appreciated.
Do you have an opinion and do you want to enter into a discussion - the very reason for participating in a forum? Your position would be very much appreciated.
Sounds like 'Risk shift', the term beloved by CRM advocates. The group decision is more risky than the individual decision!!!!!
But seriously, speaking as somone who took the decision to leave some 6 years ago without the carrot of FRI (or the prosepct of promotion I might add!), I don't regret it. I didn't leave at a good time either. Joining an airline which was in financial difficulties one month prior to 9/11 wasn't a good move. I found myself redundant from my first airline job before I had even left the RAF - which must be some sort of a record!
I miss the RAF, the flying and the mates. But the RAF I left has changed and the mates I left there don't seem to enjoy it much now. But now, I'm in a much better position financially, I have a much better lifestyle, my life is my own and although I'm still being messed around by my company's rostering department, I can say "No!" And I'm still in control because If I don't like it, I can leave.
But seriously, speaking as somone who took the decision to leave some 6 years ago without the carrot of FRI (or the prosepct of promotion I might add!), I don't regret it. I didn't leave at a good time either. Joining an airline which was in financial difficulties one month prior to 9/11 wasn't a good move. I found myself redundant from my first airline job before I had even left the RAF - which must be some sort of a record!
I miss the RAF, the flying and the mates. But the RAF I left has changed and the mates I left there don't seem to enjoy it much now. But now, I'm in a much better position financially, I have a much better lifestyle, my life is my own and although I'm still being messed around by my company's rostering department, I can say "No!" And I'm still in control because If I don't like it, I can leave.
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You know it makes sense!
I'm in a similar position but on a ground tour prior to my 38 pt this year. Job (not people) is by far the worst I've ever done (inside or outside RAF!) and although my original plan was to extend for a flying tour, I now find myself counting down the hours to leave!
I too have the £100 000 carrot however I get more with my gratuity and commutation when I leave plus get into a second career young enough to make a difference long term. It has been mentioned that above 40 yrs it does become harder to get into the airlines, certainly if you are FJ as I am.
Also think about NetJets it your after variety in your flying and Gp Capt/ Air Cdre wage in 2 - 3 years time from joining. No brainer for me!
I too have the £100 000 carrot however I get more with my gratuity and commutation when I leave plus get into a second career young enough to make a difference long term. It has been mentioned that above 40 yrs it does become harder to get into the airlines, certainly if you are FJ as I am.
Also think about NetJets it your after variety in your flying and Gp Capt/ Air Cdre wage in 2 - 3 years time from joining. No brainer for me!
