Stanley Runway

[Wader2]

you are surely aware, as the Argentinians were, that the RN could have Nuked BA from plymouth

That will be news to the Plymouth bretheren.

[NURSE]

Maybe the Navy is a little bitter because the RAF claimed it could provide airdefence to the fleet anywhere in the world?
I would sugest if money had been spent on a proper carrier force instead of being wasted on nimrod AEW and Tornado then the Falklands might never have happened.
I have seen numerous claims of what the RAF did in the Falklands including Regiment being at San Carlos for the Arggie airstrikes yes there was Raiper there but it was RA Raiper who had severe problems as they had no spare parts because the Cdo Log regt had offloaded them at ascension .
I have also noted the rewriting of history having worked with RA NCO's who were there its amazing how many Blowpipe and Raiper Kills have been re designated.
The GR3 contrabution was excellent and Black Buck was an outstanding piece of airmanship but it didn't close the runway and Glamorgan was severley damaged by exocets flown in on hercules. If the Air Bridge to argentina had been closed earlier maybe somany of our casualties wouldn't have happened.

[Mike Oxmels]

money ... wasted on ... Tornado

I would suggest that Tornado has proved its worth over the years.

[Wader2]

Nurse,

I have also noted the rewriting of history having worked with RA NCO's who were there its amazing how many Blowpipe and Raiper Kills have been re designated.

I am not sure of the relevance of this but do tell. They were redsignated as what?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

"Do not forget the importance of SH and how advantaged the British Forces would have been had we not lost Atlantic Conveyor and all but one of its Chinnies."

-1 Erm.. but we did.....


Just remind us who was supposed to be protecting the A C

[Wader2]

Mike, thank you for that, but Nurse is implying changed from that.

So do they now claim Rapier more or less than 1?
How many of the 5 are attributed to Blowpipe?

I heard a story at the time about the difference between RAF and Army Rapier procedures but we won't go in to that now.

[brickhistory]

Didn't the US also aid the Argentinians as well?

To the best of my knowledge (I was in school at the time, first time I've felt young in ages!), no. With the exception of Al Haig's grandstanding attempt to win the Nobel Peace Prize with his shuttle diplomacy, I think we helped out a fair amount behind the scenes with logistical support - tankers full of fuel at Wideawake, field living facilities at same brought in from stateside stocks, some hardware, and some satellite recce.

But, I stand to be corrected if facts can be presented.

There was a mention in a post about the world's longest C-130 flight. Any unclassified info out there? Sounds as if it would make a good read.

This was an all British show and one you should be proud of. What will you do the next time the Argies try it? Can it be repeated with current capabilities?

[dakkg651]

Brick.

The answer is no.

In 1982 we had a female prime minister with balls.

Now we have a man without the pre-requisite appendages.

The Royal Navy consists of a couple of rowing boats and the RAFs only heavy bomber is needed on the display circuit.

I believe the British Army are also a tadge on the busy side right now.

[Tourist]

Seldom.

Exactly.
We no longer had the requisite air defense, because the RAF had promised they could do it, thus no big carriers any more.

[Strictly Jungly]

Laughable................thats all I can say..........some of you are simply not worthy to make any kind of "comment" on this thread. Some individuals in here are a disgrace not only to their own uniform but to the memory of all of those who died or were injured in 1982.

Inter service banter is one thing, but some of the comments in here go far beyond that. You should be ashamed!

Unhelpful blanket stacker - since when is being a governmental detainee best described as a "holiday". I am a true believer in Free Speech but if you haven't anything sensible to say...........then don't!

How sad that a thread should sink so low...........irrespective of cap badge/service etc etc ................... everyone played their part when it was required.

[Tourist]

Working under the assumption that you are refering to me Jungly, and not sure as to why you think you are qualified to make such an assertion,

Stick it up your hoop.

[Archimedes]

Didn't the US also aid the Argentinians as well?

Jeanne Kirkpatrick thought that the US should at least be even handed. She nearly voted against a couple of resolutions at the UN that she'd been told to support; on one occasion she told the media that she'd 'followed orders' and that the administration was quite wrong to support the British case.

Utlimately, her point of view played no small part in Dr Kirkpatrick finding herself re-entering academia rather earlier than she had intended, instead of becoming the first female Secretary of State as some commentators suggested she would if Reagan won the 1983 Presidential election.

[scroggs]

Originally Posted by archimedes

5. Resupply of the fleet included airdrops from the Hercules fleet, including what was then (and may still be) the longest air transport sortie ever flown, weighing in at over 24 hours duration. The C-130s flew over 13,000 hours in support of the Task Force, while the rest of the AT fleet (or VC10s, as they were known) flew 4,000 hours.

(Also for Brickhistory's benefit) Um, I can speak with some authority about that sortie - if you're talking about the one I'm thinking of and took part in! It doesn't really qualify as part of the argument at hand as it happened after the war was over. There were a couple of C130 fliights during the conflict which approached 24 hours, though they weren't necessarily in support of RN operations. There were several during June and July of 1982 which exceeded 24 hours, the longest being 28 hours and 4 minutes, which were resupply flights for the various units remaining on the islands while the Stanley runway was closed for repairs. That particular flight remains, I believe, the longest-ever C130 flight (the previous record having been 27:45, held by a Lockheed test crew) and holds a number if operational resupply records both in distance and time.

Despite the banter - some of it quite vindictive - being bandied about here, my overwhelming memory of the conflict was the way in which all three Services pulled together to achieve the objective of regaining the Islands. Many personnel worked out of role and service to play their part in the whole, and there was rarely any bitching about any other service not pulling their weight or being surplus to requirements. I am very proud to have been part of that team, albeit in a support role, and I remain convinced that the achievement was magnificent.

Unfortunately, the politics currently decimating the UK services (and, in part, causing the inter-service back-biting demonstrated in this thread) has convinced me to return my invitation to the Falklands 25 parade, and to make my remembrance of those dead and living elsewhere.

[London Mil]

You know, all this inter-service willy waving bores me. Corporate, like many ops since, proves that the British military can pull together a joint effort in the most diverse of environment.

Take a look at the thread "One Year On". If ever there was an example of how joined-up we now are, consider those five unfortunate souls and their individual Services. i bet they weren't thinking about the inadequacies of another Service.

Personally I am proud to be British military. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Biggus]

Tourist......'you are surely aware, as the Argentinians were, that the RN could have Nuked BA from plymouth, with a lot more accuracy, less cost and no risk to aircrew? You know, those dasterdly underhanded underwater boats? National deterant? ........'

A very brief search of the internet (and I don't mean 'wikawhatsit'!) reveals the range of the Polaris A3 missile, as fitted to the 4 R class 'boats' that provided the deterrent (correct spelling!) in 1982 was 2,500 nm. Missiles fired from Plymouth due south wouldn't even have reached the equator - let alone BA! Hopefully some of your other points are more considered/researched/accurate than the one posted above!

Credibility?

[Tourist]

Oh gosh, you got me.

Yup, I retract everything I said.








................Or maybe you understood my point that Vulcans were not required to Nuke BA, and are taking refuge in pedantry because you cannot challenge my points with any real argument.

Credibility?

[airborne_artist]

Of course, there's an argument that if the Argentinians had been really frightened by the RAF's ability to deliver conventional weapons, they would not have invaded, as they'd have known in advance that they'd be bombed out of existence the minute they started to dig in on the FI.

In the Argentinians' planning stages, the RAF should have been their worry, given the speed of aircraft versus the speed of a frigate. The Argies clearly were not worrried, nor as it turned out, they didn't have too much to fear from the RAF as a whole for quite some time into the conflict.

[Pontius Navigator]

if the Argentinians had been really frightened by the RAF's ability to deliver conventional weapons, they would not have invaded

This is a specious arguement. The Argentinians would hardly have considered any of HM Forces abilities. Their consideration was entirely focussed on HMGs likely reactions. In that they were perhaps not far wrong.

HMG was, apparently, quite defeatist in its ability to recover the islands by force of arms. It was 1SL who was quite positive.

Clearly the RAF would have been wholly unable to recover the Falklands as indeed would the Army have been without the sea lift capacity of the RN. The RN would have been hard pressed to recover the FI without the Army.

The RAF provided some support, not least topping up the task force with stores as the TF reach Ascension. The other RAF efforts have been mentioned already.

True much of what the TF needed could have been done without the RAF but the RAF effort, for instance MRR, enabled quicker exploitation of places like South Georgia. It was a combined effort and one that the RAF did not claim for itself as the major component.

[Tourist]

Pontious

I 100% agree with your post. That I would agree is an accurate portrayal.

[Evalu8ter]

"It was a combined effort and one that the RAF did not claim for itself as the major component." Quite so. Unlike the RN propaganda machine justifying sending an Amphib Task Group to Iraq in 2003 to carry out a Littoral Op on a country with about 20 miles of coastline...Oh, and then conveniently forgetting to tell everyone that the bulk of the assault was conducted from a land base and by RAF SH.......See, we can all play this childish game!
Strictly Jungly, I'm with you on this one. There has been some nasty vitriol spouted on this thread which is exactly what Brown, Browne & minions want to hear. Who cares about making a fist of Strategic planning when a "bit of red meat" (read CVF for the RN, TypHoon for the RAF, FRES/"don't tinker with the cavalry" for the Army) gets the Brass Hats scurrying to brief the press defending their own sacred cows.
Tourist, grow up. Healey killed your precious carriers. The RAF put up a point of view, the Admiralty's case must not have been as good (probably more concerned with "real" ships, DDs and FFs and all those Command seats...good god, we don't wan't aviators running the RN!). So live with it. Don't forget the Naval machinations that contributed to the demise of TSR2, we all carry our scars. No one seriously disputes that a CV would have made the campaign easier, but could you have defended it any better than the Atlantic Conveyor? Maybe, maybe not. This generation of Sea Lords seem to embrace air power more; they've seen that Amphib & Expeditionary are the new ASW & Convoy Escort -good on them, and they're making every effort to get your ships. I hope you get them, I do, if only to stop paranoid crab-haters like you banging on. As a SH mate I've had the honour to serve with the brown and light blue, and have embarked on the LPH/CVS, always finding it challenging and enjoyable flying. I consider some of the Jungly boys good mates, and whereas over a few wets this sort of banter is funny, sober it is not.
If you're still sore, then it must be the flypast thing. Sorry, I just don't see you getting a T42 down The Mall (though it's probably not too far away from water for some of your skippers to have a go...) When the Flypast occurs look carefully at the units involved; many of those units are in AFG and Iraq now, fighting todays war, together.